Lethwei: The Wild West of Kickboxing

Cool write-up.

I'm surprised the fight in the OP wasn't stopped sooner. The dude was getting brutalized.

Going through a lethwei fight looks like a shitty experience. I'm sure those dudes are tough as fuck. I think I'll just stick with the light- to medium-contact fighting of the arts that I tend to float around in, thanks.
 
Cool write-up.

I'm surprised the fight in the OP wasn't stopped sooner. The dude was getting brutalized.

Going through a lethwei fight looks like a shitty experience. I'm sure those dudes are tough as fuck. I think I'll just stick with the light- to medium-contact fighting of the arts that I tend to float around in, thanks.

They have this thing about the heart of the warrior and all that jazz, so you can get knocked out, your corner will call time out, and then once you've got your senses slightly back, send your ass back out there to get KO'd again.

From a sporting perspective, this isn't really the best - and the WLC - World Lethwei Championship is a new promotion with new rules that stray from traditional lethwei and add in judges scorecards and remove the time out rule - meaning that one KO is all there is. Dave Leduc has protested these rules and refuses to fight under them, but I think it's good that fighters can't hide behind a draw in a fight which they really should have lost.

A woman I train with fought Lethwei once to a draw, and said she preferred the old school rules too though, so I can get behind them, but I'm not married to them.
 
They have this thing about the heart of the warrior and all that jazz, so you can get knocked out, your corner will call time out, and then once you've got your senses slightly back, send your ass back out there to get KO'd again.

From a sporting perspective, this isn't really the best - and the WLC - World Lethwei Championship is a new promotion with new rules that stray from traditional lethwei and add in judges scorecards and remove the time out rule - meaning that one KO is all there is. Dave Leduc has protested these rules and refuses to fight under them, but I think it's good that fighters can't hide behind a draw in a fight which they really should have lost.

A woman I train with fought Lethwei once to a draw, and said she preferred the old school rules too though, so I can get behind them, but I'm not married to them.

So you haven't married the woman or Dave?
 
Good article. The part about those different martial arts from Thailand and its neighboring countries being very similar with also their own specificities is most likely due to the fact that they battled each other for centuries, and classifying them as the same group of martial arts definitely makes sense.

An interesting fact about Lethwei that wasn't mentioned in your article is that contrarily to Muay Thai which mostly attracts the poorer side of the population in quest for more earnings from a very young age, in Lethwei there are people from different social classes and backgrounds fighting each other usually on special occasions (even some who have more money). It's a lot more of a traditional celebration rather than a professional sport like Muay Thai. This is also why the technicality and skill level of Nak Muays in Thailand tends to be higher than Burmese Lethwei fighters.

As part of this traditional celebration usually happening during holidays and festivals like Thingyan (Burmese New Year), men who are not necessarily professional fighters go in the ring and fight each other without knowing in advance who they're going to fight.

Of course there are also some professional Lethwei fighters getting paid for fighting but nowhere near the same extent as in Muay Thai, hence why some of them then train and fight in Muay Thai in Thailand where there's more money for fighting. There are actually a few Burmese (and Cambodian) fighters in the Muay Thai stadiums of Bangkok.
 
Going through a lethwei fight looks like a shitty experience. I'm sure those dudes are tough as fuck. I think I'll just stick with the light- to medium-contact fighting of the arts that I tend to float around in, thanks.

"Those dudes are tough as fuck" indeed. I have a Burmese friend in Thailand who has trained and fought in both Lethwei and Muay Thai (not high level though). When I asked him if he would consider fighting again he laughed and said there was no way he would fight in Lethwei again and that it's too crazy and brutal, but that he wouldn't mind fighting in Muay Thai again if he were to fight again.

He's also told me that Burmese fighters from Lethwei are very very tough both physically and mentally and that it's hard to finish them. In his opinion those fighters are a lot tougher than Thai fighters but less technical.

Also, if you're only doing light to medium contact then any full contact art is going to be an eye opening experience and a new world of pain for you, whatever the art. Lethwei just happens to be one of the most hardcore of the full contact arts.

They have this thing about the heart of the warrior and all that jazz, so you can get knocked out, your corner will call time out, and then once you've got your senses slightly back, send your ass back out there to get KO'd again.

There's actually been a lot of fights which got reversed where the fighter got KO'd, "revived" by his corner and then went back in and finished the other fighter. I've seen quite a lot of that happening just from what's available on the web, and my friend told me it's really not uncommon.

From a sporting perspective, this isn't really the best - and the WLC - World Lethwei Championship is a new promotion with new rules that stray from traditional lethwei and add in judges scorecards and remove the time out rule - meaning that one KO is all there is. Dave Leduc has protested these rules and refuses to fight under them, but I think it's good that fighters can't hide behind a draw in a fight which they really should have lost.

A woman I train with fought Lethwei once to a draw, and said she preferred the old school rules too though, so I can get behind them, but I'm not married to them.

Personally I think it's a good thing there are no judges' decision in Lethwei, it's pretty cool actually.

There has been so many bad decisions over the years in sports with judges be it boxing, kickboxing, mma etc. that not having controversial endings to a fight is actually a good thing IMO.

When you have judges involved this also means you can have corruption involved, and fighters would tend to try and fight to impress the judges rather than only trying to go for the KO. Lethwei with judges would just become Muay Thai with headbutts and no gloves.

It's also a lot more glorifying to win because you KO'd your opponent rather than winning because a handful of people who watched the fight think you should be the winner :)
 
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Also, if you're only doing light to medium contact then any full contact art is going to be an eye opening experience and a new world a pain for you, whatever the art. Lethwei just happens to be one of the most hardcore of the full contact arts.

Yeah, I am disinterested.

I've been hit hard at various times, both intentionally and unintentionally, and that was enough for me to know that fighting full-contact was probably not for me. It's not even just the pain, but also the prospect of injury, that concerns me. Just as an MMA fan, seeing what some of those guys go through is pretty crazy.

I enjoy participating in martial arts but I like doing it at a specific level, and that's a level where there's only a very small likelihood that I'll have to go to the ER after a match.

It's a hobby for me and not one I'm interested in putting my health at risk for.
 
Yeah, I am disinterested.

I've been hit hard at various times, both intentionally and unintentionally, and that was enough for me to know that fighting full-contact was probably not for me. It's not even just the pain, but also the prospect of injury, that concerns me. Just as an MMA fan, seeing what some of those guys go through is pretty crazy.

I enjoy participating in martial arts but I like doing it at a specific level, and that's a level where there's only a very small likelihood that I'll have to go to the ER after a match.

It's a hobby for me and not one I'm interested in putting my health at risk for.

I wish more people would take this attitude, rather than coming up with dumb excuses. Full contact isn't for everyone and there's no shame in that. Besides, it's not like you can't defend yourself with what you currently have.
 
There's actually been a lot of fights which got reversed where the fighter got KO'd, "revived" by his corner and then went back in and finished the other fighter. I've seen quite a lot of that happening just from what's available on the web, and my friend told me it's really not uncommon.

That's what happened with Tun Tun Min and Cyrus Washington, the first time I had no idea what the rules was and was completely gobsmacked that he was going back out there.
 
I wish more people would take this attitude, rather than coming up with dumb excuses.

Out of curiosity, what kind of excuses might one come up with?

Full contact isn't for everyone and there's no shame in that.

It's certainly not. I think the people that it IS for are the minority.

I think I could perhaps handle the temporary pain but, as I alluded to in my last post, it's the prospect of serious injury that is really puts me off. This is especially true considering that I haven't had health insurance in a long time. Just hearing about stories like Josh Emmet's recent struggles after Jeremy Stephens destroyed his face are enough to make me go, okay, I'll leave it to the guys who really want to do that and I'll just be a fan and watch.

What's unfortunate is the way that the guys who DO like to do full-contact martial arts can get a bit smug about it and look down on those who don't. There has, I think, been a little less of this in recent years as more and more point karate and TKD guys have successfully transitioned to full-contact fighting and shown that point competitions can impart skills that are useful even in other forms of martial arts competition, but it's certainly been a problem in the past that MT and kickboxing guys have sometimes looked at karate guys as if they're practicing a useless martial art (unless it's Kyokushin).

Besides, it's not like you can't defend yourself with what you currently have.

To be fair, I do think a lot of TMA guys would be pretty useless in a self-defense situation. But that's because I feel like a lot of them just don't really understand their art or how to apply it.

What changed my mind personally though--beyond seeing the rise of Machida--was seeing some Shotokan guys who actually understood their style and were good at it and who could do some things that frankly were quite frightening. Just incredible displays of speed and power.
 
Out of curiosity, what kind of excuses might one come up with?



It's certainly not. I think the people that it IS for are the minority.

I think I could perhaps handle the temporary pain but, as I alluded to in my last post, it's the prospect of serious injury that is really puts me off. This is especially true considering that I haven't had health insurance in a long time. Just hearing about stories like Josh Emmet's recent struggles after Jeremy Stephens destroyed his face are enough to make me go, okay, I'll leave it to the guys who really want to do that and I'll just be a fan and watch.

What's unfortunate is the way that the guys who DO like to do full-contact martial arts can get a bit smug about it and look down on those who don't. There has, I think, been a little less of this in recent years as more and more point karate and TKD guys have successfully transitioned to full-contact fighting and shown that point competitions can impart skills that are useful even in other forms of martial arts competition, but it's certainly been a problem in the past that MT and kickboxing guys have sometimes looked at karate guys as if they're practicing a useless martial art (unless it's Kyokushin).



To be fair, I do think a lot of TMA guys would be pretty useless in a self-defense situation. But that's because I feel like a lot of them just don't really understand their art or how to apply it.

What changed my mind personally though--beyond seeing the rise of Machida--was seeing some Shotokan guys who actually understood their style and were good at it and who could do some things that frankly were quite frightening. Just incredible displays of speed and power.

A lot of the time I hear people saying they don't want to do full contact martial arts for silly reasons like they won't work for self defence, or it's all about brute strength and not technique etc. - no one on this subforum really has that opinion - but there are some 'TMA' guys that have that kind of snobby attitude like there's something wrong with training for kickboxing/mma etc.

Yeah - for me I'm lucky, I train a lot, I teach twice a week, and I'm not much of a competitor and have been lucky to make full contact martial arts a big part of my life without any injuries so far. I'll have one eventually one day for definite - but I also am lucky in that I either work at the gym or I work at home and there isn't a lot of consequence for me potentially getting injured, but for those with more conventional jobs, who aren't necessarily going to be making money from competing I can understand why it might not be for them.

That being said though when my other half started training muay thai, she had no injuries, she went swimming once and injured her wrist haha.
 
That being said though when my other half started training muay thai, she had no injuries, she went swimming once and injured her wrist haha.

That's the irony of it all.

My brother doesn't do any martial arts and he's had more serious sport injuries than me from swimming and playing volleyball including a serious groin strain injury, a broken hand, and a twisted knee.

And don't even get me started on my mates who play football (soccer) and get proper bad knee and ankle injuries.
 
That's the irony of it all.

My brother doesn't do any martial arts and he's had more serious sport injuries than me from swimming and playing volleyball including a serious groin strain injury, a broken hand, and a twisted knee.

And don't even get me started on my mates who play football (soccer) and get proper bad knee and ankle injuries.

Quite often kids in my class get hurt, and it's always playing football.
 
Interesting

How come India, and China dont have anything. Mongolia/central asian nomads has its wrestling, Japan has Ninjastar throwing, and submissions. You think at least China smack in the middle will be a mixture of all that.

Comrades shouldn't fight comrades as a philosophy killed all live training and competitive martial arts in China for decades. The government has eased up a bit in the modern era and things are coming back, but this was a direct historical casualty of the Mao regime.
 
Good article. The part about those different martial arts from Thailand and its neighboring countries being very similar with also their own specificities is most likely due to the fact that they battled each other for centuries, and classifying them as the same group of martial arts definitely makes sense.

An interesting fact about Lethwei that wasn't mentioned in your article is that contrarily to Muay Thai which mostly attracts the poorer side of the population in quest for more earnings from a very young age, in Lethwei there are people from different social classes and backgrounds fighting each other usually on special occasions (even some who have more money). It's a lot more of a traditional celebration rather than a professional sport like Muay Thai. This is also why the technicality and skill level of Nak Muays in Thailand tends to be higher than Burmese Lethwei fighters.

As part of this traditional celebration usually happening during holidays and festivals like Thingyan (Burmese New Year), men who are not necessarily professional fighters go in the ring and fight each other without knowing in advance who they're going to fight.

Of course there are also some professional Lethwei fighters getting paid for fighting but nowhere near the same extent as in Muay Thai, hence why some of them then train and fight in Muay Thai in Thailand where there's more money for fighting. There are actually a few Burmese (and Cambodian) fighters in the Muay Thai stadiums of Bangkok.

where are you getting this information from? Im not saying your wrong, just wondering where you got the info from?

Myanmar is a very poor country. Many people are still living in villages in the hills etc. Their gyms and training methods are very primitive/rural or olschool if you will. I would think lethwei, as with just about every combat sport on earth, is done primarily by the poor.





 
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where are you getting this information from? Im not saying your wrong, just wondering where you got the info from?

Myanmar is a very poor country. Many people are still living in villages in the hills etc. Their gyms and training methods are very primitive/rural or olschool if you will. I would think lethwei, as with just about every combat sport on earth, is done primarily by the poor.







Yes of course, the fighters who train full time and fight as a profession are mostly poor people from the countryside, just like in Thailand. What I was saying is that it's quite common for non professional fighters from different economic backgrounds to fight each other on special occasions and festivals as a traditional celebration and to display their warrior spirit. That's how Lethwei used to be displayed to the public before it also became a professional sport. I guess there are also a lot of amateur fighters who only fight occasionally in Muay Thai but they're mostly farangs really.
 
Open weight Lethwei World Champion Dave Leduc himself came to our gym few months back. Picked up some good stuff from the seminar especially clinch work. The art of 9 limbs. It's the first time someone teaches me head butts as an actual technique. Great experience and good vibes all around.

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Open weight Lethwei World Champion Dave Leduc himself came to our gym few months back. Picked up some good stuff from the seminar especially clinch work. The art of 9 limbs. It's the first time someone teaches me head butts as an actual technique. Great experience and good vibes all around.

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i saw them posting he will be doing seminars, i would like to go to one.
 
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