Let's all be honest: Trump's "wall" is a colossal waste of money

a wall is a deterrence, not the final solution to stop all drug and human smuggling.

it's like a having walls surrounding your home. it's not going to stop a determined burglar, but it's a deterrence.

Very expensive deterrence indeed.
 
By your logic, prisons are a waste of money too.

In fact, all laws are a waste of time and money. Murderers are still going to kill people. Why have laws against murder and arrest them?
 
Lol the great wall failed because the guards let them through not because the wall didn't do it's job.

"Guards let them through" = a vulnerability of the wall.

You cant just have a wall, you have to man the wall with guards. Then you have to pay the guards enough money and have their loyalty assured or they'll be a liability.

Every wall in history has been breached. Great Wall, Sassanian Wall, Hadrians Wall, the Limes Germanicus which was built to keep out Germanic tribes(worked so well!lololol), Berlin Wall,etc.
 
By your logic, prisons are a waste of money too.

In fact, all laws are a waste of time and money. Murderers are still going to kill people. Why have laws against murder and arrest them?

Its the same in gun control too.

Can't stop all so why stop the many??.
 
"Guards let them through" = a vulnerability of the wall.

You cant just have a wall, you have to man the wall with guards. Then you have to pay the guards enough money and have their loyalty assured or they'll be a liability.

Every wall in history has been breached. Great Wall, Sassanian Wall, Hadrians Wall, the Limes Germanicus which was built to keep out Germanic tribes(worked so well!lololol), Berlin Wall,etc.

Those walls you mentioned were intended for military purposes, keeping armies out and such. This wall is intended to keep out non military illegal immigrants, so I think it will be much more effective. Will it be 100% effective? Of course not. But it will definitely deter a lot of the illegals.

You're right though, it needs to be manned but that doesn't mean human personnel. It's 2018, they can use drones.
 
"Guards let them through" = a vulnerability of the wall.

You cant just have a wall, you have to man the wall with guards. Then you have to pay the guards enough money and have their loyalty assured or they'll be a liability.

Every wall in history has been breached. Great Wall, Sassanian Wall, Hadrians Wall, the Limes Germanicus which was built to keep out Germanic tribes(worked so well!lololol), Berlin Wall,etc.
Nobody said that walls are unbreachable.

Walls are however an effective deterrent.

All those examples that you mentioned where effective deterrents for decades/centuries until they eventually where breached.

Your argument is akin too saying that if something is not 100 % effective its not worth using.
 
"Guards let them through" = a vulnerability of the wall.

You cant just have a wall, you have to man the wall with guards. Then you have to pay the guards enough money and have their loyalty assured or they'll be a liability.

Every wall in history has been breached. Great Wall, Sassanian Wall, Hadrians Wall, the Limes Germanicus which was built to keep out Germanic tribes(worked so well!lololol), Berlin Wall,etc.
Are we at war with Mexico? Am i missing something here? Those walls you mentioned were breached by hostile invading armies. The border wall is to stop or slow the flow of illegal smuggling of drugs and human. The Berlin wall did not work because of the collapsed of USSR.

The circumstances are not even the same.
 
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Don't think of it as a way to keep foreigners out, think of it as way to keep Americans in...
 
I absolutely hate Trump, I do agree agree border security must be increased, but a wall? Please, no one thinks a wall is going to solve anything, people/goods will just go under and over it. What I don't understand is why no one is promoting a massive customs/border patrol hiring. the US Mexico border is 2000 miles, why not hire 10-20000 new agents, build them posts/housing every couple miles(jobs created there too) and get to patrolling? there would be 50-100 agents available to attend to/backup any situation within 5-10 minutes. enough manpower to take on any cartel threat, etc. I reckon a couple billion$ a year the first couple years, including building the housing, paying for vehicles, arms etc, then the price would go down a bit, and some of the salaries of the agents would also be pouring into the local economies along the border, which would be good for everyone as well. There'd be a few that were blackmailed/threatened by the cartels but that happens already and I suspect that the sheer size of the new force would give agents the courage to stand up to the cartels...I dunno, sounds better than a wall to me, and the whole project could be cut back some after 5-10 years to save some money if necessary, what do y'all think?
 
I absolutely hate Trump, I do agree agree border security must be increased, but a wall? Please, no one thinks a wall is going to solve anything, people/goods will just go under and over it. What I don't understand is why no one is promoting a massive customs/border patrol hiring. the US Mexico border is 2000 miles, why not hire 10-20000 new agents, build them posts/housing every couple miles(jobs created there too) and get to patrolling? there would be 50-100 agents available to attend to/backup any situation within 5-10 minutes. enough manpower to take on any cartel threat, etc. I reckon a couple billion$ a year the first couple years, including building the housing, paying for vehicles, arms etc, then the price would go down a bit, and some of the salaries of the agents would also be pouring into the local economies along the border, which would be good for everyone as well. There'd be a few that were blackmailed/threatened by the cartels but that happens already and I suspect that the sheer size of the new force would give agents the courage to stand up to the cartels...I dunno, sounds better than a wall to me, and the whole project could be cut back some after 5-10 years to save some money if necessary, what do y'all think?
Good luck with with hiring 20,000 more border patrol agents. My oldest brother is supervisor BP(GS-13) and has been with BP for 12 years. He got hired during the BP hiring surge in 2005/2007.

CBP (both OFO and BP) agents and officers down at the southern borders are jumping ship to ICE and other DHS components because they want to get away from station down at the border in the middle of nowhere. CBP cannot even find enough bodies to replace normal attritions (retire, resignation, termination, transfer, injury) let alone 20,000 more agents.

Also, hiring 20,000 agents are not going to be cheaper than a wall. CBP journeyman pay is GS12 (or about $70,000-80,000/year depending on the locality pay), not including overtime pay and other benefits. Not to mention the cost to build more CBP stations, equipment, vehicles, training for the additional 20K agents, and so on
 
Its the same in gun control too.

Can't stop all so why stop the many??.


But that's not the main argument for not having gun control.

Second amendment, self defense, protect from government tyranny.
 
But that's not the main argument for not having gun control.

Second amendment, self defense, protect from government tyranny.

But still widely used.

I'm an efficiency guy, best bang for your buck. This wall isn't value.
 
Like that former Mexican president said, you can build a 20 foot wall, they're just going to come over it with a 20 foot ladder.

Or as a lot do, just come under the wall through tunnels. You can build a 100 foot wall, it doesn't matter if they're just going under it. Or they'll continue to be smuggled across the border. Or they'll just come legally and overstay their VISAs.

What Trump needs to do is acknowledge that illegal immigrants are going to get into America, and focus his resources and remove them when they do with stricter rules.

Take that money you were going to use on a wall and offer cash rewards for tips leading to the deportation of illegals. Money is the greatest motivator behind sex, so if someone knows they can make money from anonymously reporting illegals, ICE is going to be VERY busy.

Continue to go after businesses who employ illegals with heavy fines and sanctions.

Make it so that if you're caught illegally living in America, you're deported and you are forever disqualified from ever legally immigrating or visiting America.

And of course, DACA MUST be abolished.

Walls work. Ask the Israelis
 
But that's not the main argument for not having gun control.

Second amendment, self defense, protect from government tyranny.

Actually, it was originally for having ready militias to put down insurrections as well. IT varied, but states enforced control of the weapons. Some allowed a very low amount of ammo to be stored in the home of a private citizen, and some states went further and had stockpiles of ammunition for when the need arose.
 
Move to Somalia where they dont use your money...

oh thats right youre too much of a puzzy to do that.

Where did I say I want to spend zero in taxes? I just want my money to be be used efficiently. You are making weird over the top arguments that don't have anything to do with my beliefs. You're arguing with a ghost. A concept of me you've concocted in your own head
 
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