Let's talk keith thurman

Some have brought Crawford into mix in this thread. Crawford is a great strategist in the ring and adjust masstefully at runtime. I’m inclined towards Crawford against Spencer, because the latter will present a clear and tough fight, but tactically well understood and defined; thus, less complex to decipher. Against Thurman, we may see Crawford having trouble with Thurman’s speed and movement, similar to those presented by Gamboa, but now against heavier artillery landing...
 
thurman looked like the terminator working his way up the ranks....a scary destructive force. but he hasn't looked too spectacular in his last 5 fights...i could give thurman a pass for bundu because nobody reallized bundu was that good. But then thurman faced a clearly shopworn robert guerrero and to be honest, i thought floyd was far more impressive in beating guerrero ...and the floyd fight was when guerrero was still in his prime.

collazzo came thisclose to stopping thurman before getting beat into submission himself...and porter arguably beat thurman...that's how close and competitive the fight was.

then comes danny garcia, moving up in weight, who also gives thurman a pretty close fight.

i think at this point we know just how good thurman is...he is what we think he is. like ggg, he was dominant on his way up....but then at the truly championship level, he was made to appear good but nothing special.

If it wasn't for spence i'd give thurman another year or two as champ at ww, then a move up to 154 where he'd really struggle. But, now that thurman has agreed to a spence fight, it's pretty clear the end of the thurman era is upon us.

spence is a big, natural welter...he's phenomenally skilled, with KO power and an iron chin. He showed up thurman by blowing away bundu, brook and peterson. They say triangular theories don't work in boxing and it's sometimes true...but for the most part, they do. it's just logic. thurman's best hope against spence is no hope at all...he'd need to get really, really lucky.

Keith Thurman is Danny Garcia 0nly bigger and hits harder, they are basically the same fighter with the same styles and that's all, any decent or better boxer beats both and that's why Danny had so much trouble against that boxer that was giving him angles and jabs and counter punching him to death and Danny needed a gift decision to win. Keith Thurman is the same type of fighter and uses the same fighting style, so any decent boxer counter puncher with a great jab and great footwork beats Keith to.

The only problem Spence Jr, has is he tends to over power you and out work you, due to his size and strength advantage at 147, him being naturally bigger and stronger, it might not hurt him against Keith or the others contenders at 147, but at super welter weight and middle weight, Spence is going to have serious trouble going up against his equal in natural strength and size, so he better work on that footwork and dancing and slipping punches, because those top guys will hurt him, if he keeps taking those counter punches, he's been getting hit with and I don't want this to happen to him like it did to this guy, below.


Terry Norris vs Simon Brown I - Highlights (SImon Brown Upsets Norris With Huge Knockout)


Julian Jackson vs. Terry Norris 890730


Because Terry Norris was the same way, seek and destroy Boxer, that didn't move his head, always thinking he could over power his opponents, until he fights Boxers that can take his power and give it back. Julian Jackson was the same way, they all are, your seek and destroy fighters, that pose and don't move their heads, leaning to much on punching power and brute strength.

So Spence won't have any trouble against Keith, their fight will be like Thurman vs Garcia, with Spence just over powering Keith and stopping him late.

These poser boxers never last long in boxing due to the knockouts they endure from staying to long in the pocket getting countered and not moving their heads and I hope Spence Jr knows this and works on his defense and head movement and footwork, like Floyd Mayweather did commingling up in weight, getting hit more, when trading and standing to long in the pocket, not using great footwork and head movement, like he finally did, when he fought Diego Corrales.
 
I'd pick Brook to beat Thurman (maybe not after catching back to back beatings from Golovkin and Spence, but before those beatings, anyway). It would be a boxing match from the outside, and Brook is comparably athletic with a much better lead hand.
You know who Brook is? He's welterweight Lucian Bute during the super 6 except he's already been exposed a coupe of times. He beats Porter in a close one so people say he beats Thurman, though Thurman beat Porter even cleaner. Two fights in a row he's been hit so much that his face broke and he quit. Further, he's never really been that special, he barely got by Carson Jones well before he ever took his last two beatings.

Thurman beats Brook.
 
You know who Brook is? He's welterweight Lucian Bute during the super 6 except he's already been exposed a coupe of times. He beats Porter in a close one so people say he beats Thurman, though Thurman beat Porter even cleaner. Two fights in a row he's been hit so much that his face broke and he quit. Further, he's never really been that special, he barely got by Carson Jones well before he ever took his last two beatings.

Thurman beats Brook.
Getting smashed by the two fighters he lost two is exactly what people have criticised everyone else for who swerved challenges. I don’t see Thurman as a wide favorite at all. Favorite sure, still a good fight.
 
You know who Brook is? He's welterweight Lucian Bute during the super 6 except he's already been exposed a coupe of times. He beats Porter in a close one so people say he beats Thurman, though Thurman beat Porter even cleaner. Two fights in a row he's been hit so much that his face broke and he quit. Further, he's never really been that special, he barely got by Carson Jones well before he ever took his last two beatings.

Thurman beats Brook.

Brook beat Porter a fair bit cleaner than Thurman did; I don't think that's all that debatable. He matches up well with Thurman, all things considered.
 
Some have brought Crawford into mix in this thread. Crawford is a great strategist in the ring and adjust masstefully at runtime. I’m inclined towards Crawford against Spencer, because the latter will present a clear and tough fight, but tactically well understood and defined; thus, less complex to decipher. Against Thurman, we may see Crawford having trouble with Thurman’s speed and movement, similar to those presented by Gamboa, but now against heavier artillery landing...

Crawford gets hit alot too, he likes to trade a little to much
 
You know who Brook is? He's welterweight Lucian Bute during the super 6 except he's already been exposed a coupe of times. He beats Porter in a close one so people say he beats Thurman, though Thurman beat Porter even cleaner. Two fights in a row he's been hit so much that his face broke and he quit. Further, he's never really been that special, he barely got by Carson Jones well before he ever took his last two beatings.

Thurman beats Brook.

Were talking about one of the people smashing his face as GGG. Only one Welterweight has done that and i think that welterweight will make thurman quit before the bell as well.

I also thought kell beat porter cleaner than thurman did.

It took thurman 2 years to fight kells leftovers? Thurman has been protected and after his marriage he seems like he doesnt even want to fight anymore. Kieth will avoid all big fights because he believes hes the best there without ever proving it.
 
Some have brought Crawford into mix in this thread. Crawford is a great strategist in the ring and adjust masstefully at runtime. I’m inclined towards Crawford against Spencer, because the latter will present a clear and tough fight, but tactically well understood and defined; thus, less complex to decipher. Against Thurman, we may see Crawford having trouble with Thurman’s speed and movement, similar to those presented by Gamboa, but now against heavier artillery landing...

crawford beats thurman easy
 
Come on guys. We all know this so-an-so beat this other guy more clearly than blah blah talk doesn't mean shit. Stop that nonsense. If Spence and Thurman fight its almost a dead even match-up. You guys are selling Thurman's skills short.
 
Come on guys. We all know this so-an-so beat this other guy more clearly than blah blah talk doesn't mean shit. Stop that nonsense. If Spence and Thurman fight its almost a dead even match-up. You guys are selling Thurman's skills short.

While I'd agree with saying that Thurman is a step up for Spence, which a few people seem to overlook, Keith's weaknesses (especially his resistance to some nasty bodywork) and tactical choices (ie respecting Garcia's power up to a point where he completely stopped sitting on his punches and throwing serious shots) play well into Spence's game, IMO. That's why I'd make Spence a clear favorite.
 
...Keith's weaknesses (especially his resistance to some nasty bodywork) ... play well into Spence's game, IMO.

I agree with this. Furthermore, Thurman’s injuries, corresponding inactivity, and actual level of deterioration add significant uncertainties for us to determine with confidence where his game will be at the time of facing a tough and grueling fighter like Spence. I was suspecting before Thurman’s chin was showing signs of being fatigued and/or potentially cracked; that’ll be disastrous against Spence for he will definitely tax the integrity of your entire structure (body) either with hard punches or by making your box on your toes; and with your legs gone or poor conditioning, chin cracks get exposed catastrophically.

Keith's ... tactical choices (ie respecting Garcia's power up to a point where he completely stopped sitting on his punches and throwing serious shots) play well into Spence's game, IMO.

I disagree. Spence can cut the ring, but he really sits on his punches to maximize power delivery primarily. He doesn’t invest too much in boxing from the outside. Contrary to tekkenlee post above, I don’t see the point in comparing Terry Noris with Spence, because Terry did both box from outside and fight in the inside (see the post above) depending on opponents. Because Spence advantage is in the inside fight where he can maximize taking advantage of Thurman weakness, and Thurman should hit and move at a distance, I don’t see how the tactical plan of the latter plays into the fight plan of the first.
 
Crawford gets hit alot too, he likes to trade a little to much
Imo, I think folks are getting a little too excited over Crawford and Spence’s defense/getting hit.

They really arent showing their opponents any respect. I think theyre walking through these guys more than they are lacking the skills.
 
Come on guys. We all know this so-an-so beat this other guy more clearly than blah blah talk doesn't mean shit. Stop that nonsense. If Spence and Thurman fight its almost a dead even match-up. You guys are selling Thurman's skills short.

I agree with this. Thurman is being underrated and disrespected a bit. He is one of the most athletic guys in the sport right now, and has shown the ability to be fairly creative. He is not a big guy though, I'd say he's very average for a welterweight. So Spence has a significant natural size advantage over Thurman and is a more dangerous puncher. But Thurman is still not an easy fight for Spence, there is at least a little bit of danger there.

The next superfight is Canelo vs Spence. I don't think they are drastically different in size at all.
 
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I disagree. Spence can cut the ring, but he really sits on his punches to maximize power delivery primarily. He doesn’t invest too much in boxing from the outside. Contrary to tekkenlee post above, I don’t see the point in comparing Terry Noris with Spence, because Terry did both box from outside and fight in the inside (see the post above) depending on opponents. Because Spence advantage is in the inside fight where he can maximize taking advantage of Thurman weakness, and Thurman should hit and move at a distance, I don’t see how the tactical plan of the latter plays into the fight plan of the first.

Thurman's stick and move will slow down as he'll get hit in the gut, round after round, without having done much damage to Spence himself. Then he'll eaten alive late.
 
I agree with this. Thurman is being underrated and disrespected a bit. He is one of the most athletic guys in the sport right now, and has shown the ability to be fairly creative. He is not a big guy though, he's very average for a welterweight. Spence has a significant natural size advantage and is a more dangerous puncher. But he's still not an easy fight for Spence.

The next superfight is Canelo vs Spence. I don't think they are drastically different in size at all.
You might want to edit the Spence vs Spence bit for clarity.
 
You might want to edit the Spence vs Spence bit for clarity.

Are you trying to claim Spence is not a tough fight for Spence? He has no clear advantages to speak of.
 
Are you trying to claim Spence is not a tough fight for Spence? He has no clear advantages to speak of.
There’s a few of you seeing Keith causing problems for Spence and I don’t see it unless an initial blitz works, the longer the fight goes on the worse it gets for Thurman.
 
There’s a few of you seeing Keith causing problems for Spence and I don’t see it unless an initial blitz works, the longer the fight goes on the worse it gets for Thurman.

Keith showed impressive cardio and durability against Danny Garcia and Porter, all while eating body shots. Danny and Porter do not have the wrecking power of Spence, but we at least have to keep in mind that Keith has shown great cardio in several fights.

Don't get me wrong, I'd heavily favor Spence in that fight. But I don't think it's a walk in the park.
 
Getting smashed by the two fighters he lost two is exactly what people have criticised everyone else for who swerved challenges. I don’t see Thurman as a wide favorite at all. Favorite sure, still a good fight.
You make a good point even if the GGG fight was a Lil foolhardy.
Thurman isn't damaged goods though, I think he beats Kell.
 
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