Likelihood: Trump loses in 2020, accepts the vote as legit, and cleanly transfers power? | Page 12

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Trotsky, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. The Higher Power "IT'S ME, AUSTIN!!!"

    The Higher Power
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    #221
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  2. lfd0311 Gold Belt

    lfd0311
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    So you linked me to the last time you threatened to link me to a previous thread where you apparently destroyed me? What had my point about the burden to the middle class been? That the actual Middle Class gets to pay far more money for far less coverage. So the insurance companies make money on both ends of the deal, while the middle class losses out. Your ability to consistently refuse to address that is frankly impressive. But hey, if that's what you need to do to convince yourself you're smarter than I am, just rock on with that. There were at least 20 new taxes that came about due to Obamacare. Almost half of them affected householsa making less than 250k a year. But you and @Jack V Savage still seem to think we're talking simply about the tax rate for the middle class. That's unbelievably dense and narrow sighted for self described supreme intellectuals like yourselves....
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 5:46 PM
  3. DickSarp Yellow Card

    DickSarp
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    I think it is more likely that Trump flees the country or resigns in disgrace before he has an opportunity to run. But if he does lose a subsequent election, I pray to god he makes a federal issue of it. Then maybe we can finally get loyalty oaths from the Trump loyalists so that the country can be certain of their allegiance to the Constitution. ...of the USA, not Russia.
     
    #223
  4. Trotsky Yellow Card

    Trotsky
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    Again, you're a fucking moron.

    A large component of the ACA was raising the floor on coverage standards (and a huge part of the AHCA was removing those floors), price growth was substantially slowed, and the cost of additional subsidies was funded by taxes on the top income earners.

    So you cannot support your statement that "the actual Middle Class gets to pay far more money for far less coverage."

    There is ample evidence to the contrary, some of which is included in my previous post that I cited to, so I welcome you to provide support for your argument. But you can't, because it's a nonsensical argument and you're a stupid piece of shit.


    Wrong. Again. Like always. You idiots cannot even keep your argument straight between "ACA is a failure because insurance providers are dropping out!" to "ACA is a failure because it helps the insurance providers get more money!"

    The upward track of health insurance stocks has been held quasi-consistent on the back of fairly elastic profit floors, yes, but maintaining that floor (absent the public option thanks to the GOP dick bags that morons like you voted in) has verifiably held middle-income plans constant through subsidization of taxes on top earners.

    There is literally no evidence that profit growth has accelerated, nevertheless that it has done so to the expense of the middle class.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...ealth-insurance-under-obamacare/#d174c6c3c3a2


    Just did.

    Now time for you to, for the first time in this infuriating whack-a-mole game, to present actual evidence on your claims.

    LOL, I don't need any assistance with that.

    You're an extremely unintelligent person. You're not the dumbest guy here, but you're certainly in the conversation.


    No, we're talking about price growth and coverage comprehensiveness, as you have accurately re-injected into the conversation.

    In light of all three considerations, you are wrong, as always.

    Also, you know JVS has you on his ignore list and has stated such itt, so you can stop tagging him and pretending that he's dodging you.
     
    #224
  5. lfd0311 Gold Belt

    lfd0311
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    As I've asked you before, one of the many things you've never answered, you don't actually have employee provided insurance, do you? Or if you do, aren't old enough to have has it prior to the ACA. Your refusal to answer is smart enough. Only someone whose entire experience with the ACA I'd reading articles from Liberals news sources can say the things you say. Because at this point you're the only ones they can get to believe that. The fact that you want me to post some sort of link to information about how premiums have consistently risen while the quality of coverage has fallen is all the proof that's needed. Simply outside and ask someone with employee provided insurance. Jesus. Stop attempting to attribute your naivety and lack of life experience to some sort of stupidity on my part. By the way, did you have anything to say about this being a Republican plan, or where you just going to continue to dodge that the way you did the Sub Prime Mortgage Crisis?


    LLOOOOLL, a three year old article?!? Was that supposed to be insulting? Because I can't believe you're that stupid. You are that dedicated to ideology that you'd something that intellectually dishonest to avoid an objective examination of this Republican Money Grab you can't stop stumping for. Here, let me help you out chief.


    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/05/top...it-surge-29-percent-to-6-billion-dollars.html


    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-care-premiums-rising-obamacare/story?id=43047190

    Because the insurance companies are being "forced" to take on all these new preexisting condition coverages, they continue to raise, this year tripling, premiums for people without preexisting conditions, which by the way is literally everyone in country who had insurance before, while actual coverage for those people continues to get worse. That's how their making money while technically losing money on the Obama care plans their providing, and that's how the burden is passed on to the middle class. That 6 billion dollars they made? That's totally from Medicaid and stuff. That resulted in a 30 percent profit increase in a single year.


    [/QUOTE]LOL, I don't need any assistance with that.

    You're an extremely unintelligent person. You're not the dumbest guy here, but you're certainly in the conversation.




    No, we're talking about price growth and coverage comprehensiveness, as you have accurately re-injected into the conversation.

    In light of all three considerations, you are wrong, as always.

    Also, you know JVS has you on his ignore list and has stated such itt, so you can stop tagging him and pretending that he's dodging you.[/QUOTE]

    1.) Anytime someone like you continuously just says "you're dumb" instead of just making argument, it it reaffirms my position. But as we've established you're a complete ideologue. And if you actually read my posts you'd know I tag @Jack V Savage because he only likes to pretend I'm on his ignore list. He'll fuck up from time to time and quote me while I'm "ignored". So we can add not actually reading to your list of offenses.
     
    #225
  6. lfd0311 Gold Belt

    lfd0311
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    You obviously don't know or understand who they are as people, that was my point. Those guys aren't loyal to Trump for any reason other than because he's the President, the same way they were to Obama. They'd served in these exact same positions in the exact same way if Hillary had won and had asked it of them. That was my point and what you didn't understand.
     
    #226
  7. ultramanhyata Silver Belt

    ultramanhyata
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    WTF are you talking about??
     
    #227
  8. The Higher Power "IT'S ME, AUSTIN!!!"

    The Higher Power
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    We're waiting for you to provide proof for your claim (s) in post #208. Don't be scared, homie.
     
    #228
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  9. Trotsky Yellow Card

    Trotsky
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    Yes, my health insurance is provided by my firm.

    If you had asked that before, I'd have happily answered it. I had insurance through the ACA on my own for my final year of school.

    Did you have a stroke, or is your normal level of idiocy just sundowning into legal incompetence level?

    See above. I've received health insurance directly through healthcare.gov or whatever the site is.

    I don' t care how long you insist that your reality is different than everyone else's and that somehow the universal statistical truth that price growth slowed under the ACA while plan quality was shored up is fake news.

    The ACA slowed price growth. Period. And funded subsidies for additional recipients on the back of a tax increase on the rich. Period.

    You can keep deflecting and using the whole "real world experience" fallacy instead of providing any actual evidence that what you say exist exists. That's fine. Frankly, I admire the fact that you can warp the fact that you're a career failure and are struggling to pay for health insurance into some kind of argumentative feather in your cap, but it's not going to do anything to further your argument that the ACA increased prices on the average middle class person, nor that it reduced plan quality.


    Here's one from 2017, moron.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/robbma...p-your-companys-insurance-rates/#78671a983a01


    What ideology would that be?

    What fucking socialist liked creating a profit floor and effectuating a captive market oligopoly where inflated prices continue to cause people's suffering to maintain the existence of exorbitant and useless profits?

    Just because I live in a world where data/basic reality extends to my normative opinions doesn't mean I support this shitty system.

    Just LOL @ finding anyone who is an Affordable Care Act ideologue. Really, more than anything, that speaks to how morons like you don't know what the word "ideologue" actually means.


    Hey, shit for brains, read the first two paragraphs of that article and realize it is directly contradicting your intended point.

    God, how the fuck have you survived this long being so fucking incompetent?


    Cite.

    Cite that the average premium for enrollees without preexisting conditions was tripled this year.

    I'll wait.

    Boy, you sure are winner.
     
    #229
  10. DickSarp Yellow Card

    DickSarp
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    Where's the healthcare coverage for all Americans at a fraction of the cost of the ACA?

    Trump promised that within 30 days of election bc it would be easy to do.

    If "you can keep your doctor" is considered a lie for the ages, what the fuck does that make that ejaculation poring out of Trump's trap? Anyone?

    Considering Trump and Cruz both worked feverishly to sabotage the funding of the ACA to shut down markets, raise premiums and harbor uncertainty about the program, it's no wonder there are problems.

    Jesus christ, the ACA is a market-based right wing health coverage plans and these fucking dopes on the Right oppose it. They oppose their own magnum opus. That's what you get when a right wing black president legislates.

    Why if we could just open up interstate competition btn the 5 big insurance companies, premiums will come down.....hahahahah republican shitbags never learn.
     
    #230
  11. TheLastEmperorReurns Purple Belt

    TheLastEmperorReurns
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    [​IMG]

    -He's establishment af but the MSM demonized Trump badly enough for the far left to rally behind him as much as the moderate right rallied behind Trump because of disdain for Hillary.

    -Combination of his background and African-American disapproval of Trump will help him get Obama numbers in African American districts.
     
    #231
  12. Strychnine Gold Belt

    Strychnine
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    I'm just spitballing here....

    What would happen if President Trump says something to the effect of "We can't ensure that the 2020 election is viable (not tampered with), so it must be postponed until it can."
     
    #232
  13. kpt018 Gold Belt

    kpt018
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    I didn’t say they would help a transition though, so your point about my misunderstanding is wrong. I am only talking about Trump.
     
    #233
  14. JohnMc Purple Belt

    JohnMc
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    I hope he pulls a Hillary and comes out with excuses to tarnish the legitimacy of the election and then claim to be leading the resistance. The Dems need a taste of their own medicine.
     
    #234
  15. DickSarp Yellow Card

    DickSarp
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    Yup. The Traitor proposes preserving the sanctity of American elections and that can't be done during an election cycle. So we'll just defer for a while until it's. . .safer.

    And all the little brownshirts will fall in line reciting how Trump is saving American . . . again. (Like he did when he sold out to the Russkies to sabotage the US presidential election in 17).
     
    #235
  16. DickSarp Yellow Card

    DickSarp
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    Absolutely.

    Bc political primaries are just like presidential elections where the obvious loser becomes the winner with traitorous help from Russian saboteurs, right?

    Taste that medicine my friend.
     
    #236
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  17. WTF2008 Brown Belt

    WTF2008
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    Holy whatever god you believe in.

    Serious question, do you honestly believe that Russia somehow 'tampered' with the election and 'made' Trump win?
     
    #237
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  18. lfd0311 Gold Belt

    lfd0311
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    So the long way around answering my question was "no, I didn't have employer provided insurance prior you Obamacare". Direct answers to directly asked questions will make this a lot easier. So you have no concept of what insurance was like prior to Obamacare. Premiums were incredibly low across the board, and coverages were incredibly high. My insurance in 2009 was 80% out of network, 100% in network. That same plan today is 60% in network, 40% out of network, and my premiums have tripled, as have the rest of the Middle Class'. You can attempt to ignore that all you want, it doesn't change that fact. So what does that mean? It means what I've said from day one. The insurance companies win. They make money on both ends of the deal. They make money on the front end, by forcing me to pay a higher premium, and they make money on the back end, in the event that I actually do get sick or injured, I now have to pay for a larger chunk of my bill and they don't have to pay out nearly as much as they otherwise would have. Now average that out over hundreds of millions of people, and you have billions of profits. Please, please try to tell me that the 2 million some people that now have insurance because of Obamacare and are making the insurance companies take those few individual plans at a loss are somehow offsetting that and are actually bad for the insurance company's bottom lines so I can continue laughing at you.




    See above. It's the reality for most of Middle Class America. It's not your reality, because the previous reality was never yours to begin with. You're the one not living in reality. Simply talk to someone who had employee provided health insurance prior to Obamacare with no pre-existing health conditions, that's all you need to do. Nobody's health insurance got better. Nobody's premiums went down. Nobody. And we're talking about hundreds of millions of people. Your ignorance of that, or at this point just flat out refusal to admit it, doesn't make me wrong.

    Secondly, I make 80k a year. Just me, not counting my wife's income. I see I've magically gone from stupid to poor now as well. The fact that you can't actually argue points and can only attempt lame insults like "You can't afford to pay for health insurance" is as pathetic as it is funny.






    Oh, so it was actually my fault that you posted a 3 year old article? you're a riot.... P.S. Your article is from the beginning of this year. Since then Health insurance companies have made 6 billion dollars. Keep ignoring that and plugging away with your ideological talking points, that's all you've got at this point. You don't have facts.





    OK, I'm going to put this in big, bold letters so you're sure not to skip over it. This is a Republican Plan. It was designed by Republicans and initially put into practice in Massachusetts. The Obama administration saw this as a way to compromise with Republicans on healtcare and possibly get some sort of legislation passed. It isn't their ideal plan. Republicans have argued so aggressively agianst it for so long because arguing against anything that Obama did was just thier position on everything. So what you're actually doing here is stumping for a Republican plan, and what are Republican plans always designed to do? Make money. Never help people. But you can't see that, because it has the name "Obama" attached to it, so it HAS to be the greatest shit ever. THat's why I've told you a number of times to do some real objective examination, (which you haven't, because like.... Obama, bro...) and why you're getting called an ideologue. Your party did it, there for it' s awesome, free of examination.



    Hey, shit for brains, maybe actually read my entire posts, that way you won't look stupid when you post things like this. From just below my citation of the article you're referencing:

    Learn to read. Once again, your failures at understanding over the year long course of this conversation aren't mine. Their yours. Eventually you may come to understand that.



    First of all, I never said it tripled over the span of a single year. The absolute irony of this post is incredible. Just to put it into context, this is what your above comment was in reply to:


    From the article linked above, which you included in your quote, then demanded I provide proof of the highlighted:

    But apparently ABC news, much less the Department of Health and Human Services aren't good enough sources for you.

    We'll just through this one in for the heck of it. Prices continue to go up, while coverage rates continue to do what? GO DOWN. That's how the insurance companies, once again, make 6 billion in profits. They make more on premiums and pay out less in claims. That's just simple math for anyone who isn't a blind ideolouge. If you take in less than you put out, your profits go up. Why that needs explaining is beyond me.


    Thanks dude. It's about time that you got around to realizing you're getting destroyed in this conversation, and always have been.
     
    #238
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 8:43 AM
  19. lfd0311 Gold Belt

    lfd0311
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    Bro, they got on facebook, bro
     
    #239
  20. lfd0311 Gold Belt

    lfd0311
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    What sabatoge was that again? And this is why people are tired of you. "Our actual cheating wasn't as bad as any cheating you may or may not of done, so therefore we didn't actually cheat and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves and allow us to win anyway."
     
    #240

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