Limitations of Sport Grappling?

I'm still routinely shocked by how many cops swear by aikido, despite resolving almost every use of force scenario with a taser. Blows me away.
I kinda hate the taser too. It can be a good tool but has a 50% success rate at best. I've never used mine personally, and its pretty uncommon department wide, but over reliance used to be a huge issue.
 
Clinch is risky.

The other guy can knee you in the balls.

I had it happen to me during sparring. Yes he's not supposed to but it's not like he had to pay a fine when he did.
 
There’s thousands of cool little nifty tricks these days, but what are some positions / techniques that would get you hauled away on a stretcher if you attempted to use them in a self-defence situation? I think it would be cool to see some more non-tournament and MMA oriented threads.

According to published police statistics in my area (and I suspect most districts release local statistics) 80% of self-defense situations involve defense against weapons.

Meaning anything which doesn't concentrate on defense against the most common (and most dangerous) kinds of attacks has got huge holes in its applicability.

Unarmed fighting is sport. Humans have used weapons for serious fighting (like self-defense) for several hundred thousand years. Real self defense involves reading the situation and avoiding the attack before it starts, running when the attack starts, using your own weapons if the above aren't possible.
 
According to published police statistics in my area (and I suspect most districts release local statistics) 80% of self-defense situations involve defense against weapons.

Meaning anything which doesn't concentrate on defense against the most common (and most dangerous) kinds of attacks has got huge holes in its applicability.

Unarmed fighting is sport. Humans have used weapons for serious fighting (like self-defense) for several hundred thousand years. Real self defense involves reading the situation and avoiding the attack before it starts, running when the attack starts, using your own weapons if the above aren't possible.
This seems right. There's a youtube channel I think called active self protection and the guy breaks down real incident videos of all sorts of scenarios: scuffles, car jackings, domestic disturbances, home invasions, traffic stops, high risk warrants, people attempting suicide-by-cop, you name it. There are all sorts of outcomes ranging from everyone goes home safe, to attacker gets injured or killed, to defender gets injured or killed. Most of the footage is from security cameras, cell phones, body cams, or dashboard cams. Many of the videos involve deadly force but some don't.

I've watched tons of them and very few have involved an attacker without a weapon. The ones that don't involve an attacker with a weapon usually involve a man beating on a woman. So I don't know the stats but I'd be interested to know in unarmed attacks how many are man on man vs man on woman.
 
Clinch is risky.

The other guy can knee you in the balls.

I had it happen to me during sparring. Yes he's not supposed to but it's not like he had to pay a fine when he did.

Clinch is awesome but you need to have experience with clinch as if it were mma or else yeah, uppercuts, elbows, and knees will rudely surprise you.
 
According to published police statistics in my area (and I suspect most districts release local statistics) 80% of self-defense situations involve defense against weapons.

Meaning anything which doesn't concentrate on defense against the most common (and most dangerous) kinds of attacks has got huge holes in its applicability.

Unarmed fighting is sport. Humans have used weapons for serious fighting (like self-defense) for several hundred thousand years. Real self defense involves reading the situation and avoiding the attack before it starts, running when the attack starts, using your own weapons if the above aren't possible.


Most physical scuff-a-mucks that someone might be likely to get into over the course of their life aren't 'self-defense situations', so defined (or so reported).
 
Most physical scuff-a-mucks that someone might be likely to get into over the course of their life aren't 'self-defense situations', so defined (or so reported).

True enough, but the thread started specifically said self-defense, rather than school yard scuffles.
 
True enough, but the thread started specifically said self-defense, rather than school yard scuffles.


Of course, but these sorts of threads in general tend to be perennially hamstrung by tunnel vision/lack of overall perspective, in one facet or another.
 
Of course, but these sorts of threads in general tend to be perennially hamstrung by tunnel vision/lack of overall perspective, in one facet or another.

Fair enough, I was responding to what he asked. In terms of unarmed scuffling about, sport BJJ is excellent, and in practice better than judo, wrestling, boxing, muy thai etc because its both very effective (all of them are against untrained people) and lets you stop your opponent without seriously hurting them (throws/takedowns can do serious unintentional damage if someone lands on their head, and of course striking always can have unexpectedly severe consequences). This latter point is vital - seriously injuring someone in an unarmed scuffle is going to bring the law down on you, and even if you win in court, it'll cost a lot in lawyer's fees.
 
Bisping used an octopus guard sweep on GSP, I didn't expect to see that one in MMA, and certainly not at that level.
I think Penn used that to take the back of Hughes in their second fight (Octo Guard). Could be wrong though.
 
There's loads of stuff from open guard that can do you more harm than good. Half guard in BJJ is a good attacking position, but in MMA is maybe just as bad as being mounted. Deephalf guard, inverted guard (if you don't attack the legs fast). Closed guard is pretty neutral, guys on top don't get triangled all the time nowadays and fighters are more and more able to defend against strikes with closed guard and butterfly guard. But there's still a shitload of stuff that fighters didn't really explore in grappling from your back with strikes.

What I don't understand, it's why there's not more single X entries to attack the legs. If your stuck on your back with a guy standing over your butterflies, you can just enter into SLX and attack the legs from there. If you don't manage the sub, you'll have a scramble to get back up and it's low risks because it's tough to GnP someone when you're on your ass with a leg locked up.

Right now, the top leg grapplers doing MMA are generally the best grapplers and are pretty much always on top, and like Danaher said, he won't let go of a top position to try a leg attack in a MMA fight. I don't think we'll see Tonon pull guard on purpose to attack heel hooks.


I think the best leg attack from a bottom situation is actually the caio tera style leg press, to foot lock/sweep from de la riva, as it does not require you to go all the way under your opponent. Rather can be done at long range while keeping him at 'arms reach', as the nature of the form is bodily blocking his movement forward. Can also be used in concert with tripod sweeps, which is a technique i think is actually more applicable to mma than strikeless grappling, for the same reasons of long range and physical interposition between you and him, and that even if you don't sweep him it can still make space for you to stand up and escape anyways.




















As an aside, i don't actually think it's expressly a bad idea to transition into a leg entanglement from top; or rather, it's not a bad idea to transition into a saddle, in particular. Rather than going backwards, you are in fact advancing to a position of more dominant control, gaining access to a vulnerable target on your opponent, thus facilitating a finish.










 
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Oh but I thought you said

The Metropolitan Police, my local plods, don't actually publish any statistics of this kind about "self defence situations".

Okay, publish is the wrong word. I should have said "makes available". They keep track of the weapons used in crimes, and will tell you if you call.
 
If you go for a leg lock on me in a street fight and aren’t fast enough, i’m probably not even going to fight hands, just try to upkick/ stomp you in the face with my other leg.

Also, tying someone up from bottom closed guard is all good in an mma/nogi context. But getting headbutted with the back of your head hitting the concrete isn’t so nice in a real fight

I’ve also messed around and kicked training partners in the dick when they are playing open guard on me, instant game changer haha.
Stomping them in the nuts is a little harder to pull off on a savvy opponent but is about 10x more devastating

Don’t forget you can also upkick your opponent in the balls when they are standing over you too. They will be thinking punch or punch and pass while you upkick their precious jewels
 
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