listrahtes learning boxing thread

[listrahtes]

Its time to open my own training thread. As I dont want to flood the forum with any new post or video regarding my progress all will be posted in this thread.

I started boxing in 10/2017, fractured my rib after 2 weeks and started again in 01/2018 with 2x/week fitnessboxing and strenght training. My main coaches back then were Precision Boxing, Fran Sands videos @ YT & Sherdog. This went on until april when I realized that I moved like a slug on valium (especially after watching @YoungCashMoney videos ) and this would have to be dealt with. Also training on your own gets to a point were its of little use without feedback.

April until June I stopped boxing completely and focused on running with cardio / speed / intervall training combined with track & field movement drills. I can now run up to 25km and have a 5km @ 20min. /[email protected]. Boxing now feels different. Lost 10kg. No strenght training anymore.

Since end of June I am a member of a boxing gym with 2x/week training and 1x/week 3min sparring with a coach. Recording in training is not possible and until now, none of my rare sparring sessions with colleagues I was allowed to record let alone upload on the Internet. Have to respect that but hope this changes. At the moment I dont have any sparring partners but will look to find some come september.

regarding the video: I recorded it now while being on vacation. Its not strict shadowboxing. I always start slow to get control and do a mix of drills (tile exercise), movement and shadow boxing. I also like to try things out that may work or may not . Focus is on staying relaxed and light on the feet. Had a little bit trouble inverting right foot with running shoes. Its probably pretty boring to watch. Gets faster midway through. Combo 12521 f.e. At 9.50min.



Sparring with my coaches is as one sided as it gets ( as expected) and they are a great help. As I have a job and family its not that possible to focus on boxing, especially as I found a renewed interest with running. But these two seem to complement each other.

My mistakes:

• not always ending a combo with a jab to get distance.
  In sparring my guard is high but I tend to put it sideways to my head and not in front which makes me vulnerable to jabs.
• My hooks suck. I have an ok slow left hook but as soon as I fasten it up it gets bad most of the time. With left I prefer kind of a shovel hook at the moment.
• leaning forward
• freezing for a split second after throwing a combo instead of moving on.

my main focus at the moment are movement drills. Its the reason why I feel more at home now in boxing and this is something I do on my own. Drills are from boxing , track&field and TMA from back in my youth. In my experience Its not really possible to learn correct punching only from videos, too many possible errors (I love the tile execise from @Sinister , helped a lot in grounding my right), but movement is of great benefit.

goals:
first one was starting boxing. Done. Next one is to get to be a stick & move boxer with focus on defense and ability to end fights. If my progress is satisfying I will try to get a fight in 2019.


What do you think about a training camp / holiday in Thailand only boxing related? This may be a possibility in 2020 but I dont know how much sense this does make in a Muay Thai country. If yes which camp would you prefer for boxing and some holiday at the sea? Annother option may be United States but my guess is that this will be too expensive.

criticism is always welcome.

 

[ironkhan57]

The jab you could use a bit more, you should put hips into it too. You seem like a big guy you could knock a motherfucker out. But one thing I noticed in the first 4 mins and 10 secs. I'm at work and I work at a gas station so their are customers coming and what not so I'm watching the video bit by bit. It would help to know exactly what your working on in the shadowboxing video.

You seem to be doing good, your using good head movement, using th Jab good (you just got to put hips into it), and your using good movement.

Just a suggestion because this is what @j123 told me to do in one of my bagwork videos, after every combination jab out or move out of the way.

 

[listrahtes]

@ironkhan57
Its a light hearted training session. I just wanted to give a picture on were I am at the moment. I did build in how to counter pressure by going backwards and pivoting out , moving sideways while punching or angling while punching but in general it was a feel good training while on vacation without much thought put into. I am not a big guy. As I wrote I lost 10kg and am now a little over 80kg.

For boxing I realized that muscle mass is more of a problem than help and will try to lean out a little bit more.

 

[ironkhan57]

@ironkhan57
Its a light hearted training session. I just wanted to give a picture on were I am at the moment. I did build in how to counter pressure by going backwards and pivoting out , moving sideways while punching or angling while punching but in general it was a feel good training while on vacation without much thought put into. I am not a big guy. As I wrote I lost 10kg and am now a little over 80kg.

For boxing I realized that muscle mass is more of a problem than help and will try to lean out a little bit more.

Yeah you got to be careful how big you get, too much mass will slow you down. You seem to look good, you could try a little visualization while sparring like try to visualize an opponent in front of you rather then just shadowbox. That will help, watch a few boxing matches and try to visualize opponents in front of you.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Good stuff, nothing is glaringly wrong. At this point you just need to tighten (technique, not actual tension) everything up bit by bit. Work to make everything easier and more efficient. I'm sure you can feel what is awkward to yourself, obviously you try to correct those things because if it feels wrong, it IS wrong and needs to be adjusted somehow.

A lot of people semi-consciously resist becoming more efficient because they're still enamored with the idea of getting a sweet workout and they want to "feel" the struggle but getting more efficient entails feeling LESS struggle for more bang-- overall it feels like you're doing less (even though you are doing more) which most people don't like so they can't move ahead

You need to find the most fluid, efficient, technical coach you can. Not just a "good" one. At this point you need the inside knowledge to all the little tricks and tiny tweaks (mental and biomechanical) that will allow you to shave off little bits of baggage/resistance to your movement.

I would also suggest you take up some kind of dancing (live or at home) to get lighter on your feet and teach you these mechanics. Since everything starts in the feet/legs it will have a multiplication effect on your overall ability. This alone would give you more ability and effectiveness than dedicated training under a mediocre teacher for a year or two. PLUS you don't have to choose, you can train them both simultaneously and it wont conflict in the least. You don't even have to become a master dancer, just starting being able to do somethings slightly more simply and naturally will yield unbelievable yet undeniable results VERY quickly, near immediately

It's impossible lie or cheat with dancing because the ability to move efficiently IS the aesthetic. It WILL teach you a lot of little tricks how to move and give you the edge over what would be other more athletically gifted fighters who would otherwise have your number. Either instructionals (dvds, youtube, etc.) or an instructor/classes or both, whatever you're comfortable with. Make sure to have fun or you wont learn well. Don't take it overly seriously, have fun instead

I agree with Ironkhan a little, I think you're okay where you are but you don't want to get too much bigger or it will result in stiffness. I really think you're okay where you are and it shouldn't be a burden unless you are planning on competing in which case you will cut down weight anyway so yeah, doing really good.

 

[listrahtes]

I agree with Ironkhan a little, I think you're okay where you are but you don't want to get too much bigger or it will result in stiffness

Yeah you got to be careful how big you get, too much mass will slow you down

You guys misunderstood me. I went down with weight by 10kg since april not up because it felt stiff. I am not selling myself short If I write that my left hook looked like a hippopotamus threw it. If I do a real weight training routine I build up mass pretty quick up, thats why I have reduced that to a bare minimum with lots of cardio. If I continue training like this I will likely loose annother 2-3kg.

Thanks for the advice. I do dance, just have no time at the moment. My very first art was ballet as a child for some years. Thats the foundation everything else built on. If the time is right I will continue with tango.

Regarding coaches. We have exactly one boxing club in our city . But really I am happy there and get along with the students and coaches.

Imo the most important aspect now is that I build in more sparring so that I really know what works and what has to be modified /thrown out. I still have a tendency to block punches with my face and in general I look much worse in sparring than shadowboxing. Cant really get around a tight jab based defense at the moment.

after every combination jab out or move out of the way.

That how I am told also. Sometimes I go against it consciously but often I just forget. I am a beginner after all. Hope to smoothen things out until the year ends.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

You guys misunderstood me. I went down with weight by 10kg since april not up because it felt stiff. I am not selling myself short If I write that my left hook looked like a hippopotamus threw it. If I do a real weight training routine I build up mass pretty quick up, thats why I have reduced that to a bare minimum with lots of cardio. If I continue training like this I will likely loose annother 2-3kg.

Thanks for the advice. I do dance, just have no time at the moment. My very first art was ballet as a child for some years. Thats the foundation everything else built on. If the time is right I will continue with tango.

Regarding coaches. We have exactly one boxing club in our city . But really I am happy there and get along with the students and coaches.

Imo the most important aspect now is that I build in more sparring so that I really know what works and what has to be modified /thrown out. I still have a tendency to block punches with my face and in general I look much worse in sparring than shadowboxing. Cant really get around a tight jab based defense at the moment.

Ok, disregard our reading comprehension disabilities

Sounds like you're on the right track, that's probably definitely why your skills appear so decent already.

For the blocking punches with your face I would ask the boxing coach for drills during private lessons or as a class if possible, that's the quickest way. Once it becomes an instinct, you'll find your body will do it for you most of the time. It doesn't even have to take months, it can be weeks.

*Hint: see/treat it as a fun game instead of something dangerous because it isn't really dangerous, especially while training. After a little training it wont be dangerous even in a non-gym setting. It really is like riding a bike (or it can be)

 

[MaxMMA]

Just like the other dude sano, you're on your heels way to much and it's costing you balance and power. Staying on the balls of your feet engages your muscles not your joints and keeps your momentum flowing while "planting" your feet to throw shots.

Anytime you step you should be landing on the ground with the ball of your foot, anything else is going to jeaprodize your balancd Especially when throwing lead punches like the jab, I see you landing heel first which will suck all the pop out of the blow.

 

[listrahtes]

Just like the other dude sano, you're on your heels way to much and it's costing you balance and power.

Hm strange ,did not feel like it other than few instances. Especially my Jab I try to always to land front foot. Will keep that in mind thx. Its less flat footed than some time ago but I guess still ways to go.

 

[MaxMMA]

Hm strange ,did not feel like it other than few instances. Especially my Jab I try to always to land front foot. Will keep that in mind thx. Its less flat footed than some time ago but I guess still ways to go.

I guess this is a thing I see with some people on this forum. They train without proper instruction and they rely on watching professional fighter videos to guage their own technique, which will set you up for failure.

I'm a big proponent of at home workouts but you really need proper instruction to guide you.

In the other thread, sano was arguing with one poster about his unbalanced stance, citing Mayweather and a more traditional Karate stance as his influnece and explanation for having most of his weight off center and to the rear. When in reality his stance is a product of putting his weight on his heels.

Citing someone like Mayweather... Or any high level professional for that matter for beginners is flawed IMO. High level pros have mastered the fundamentals of striking to a point where their fundamentals may be really hard to spot.

Case in point, sano references Mayweather that he often has his weight loaded to the rear and appears to have his feet flat on the ground, which he does a lot. The reality is ifif y could see his actual weight distrabution, most of his weight would be on the ball, not the entire foot. Even when he pulls hard to the rear.

 

[Sano]

I guess this is a thing I see with some people on this forum. They train without proper instruction and they rely on watching professional fighter videos to guage their own technique, which will set you up for failure.

I'm a big proponent of at home workouts but you really need proper instruction to guide you.

In the other thread, sano was arguing with one poster about his unbalanced stance, citing Mayweather and a more traditional Karate stance as his influnece and explanation for having most of his weight off center and to the rear. When in reality his stance is a product of putting his weight on his heels.

Citing someone like Mayweather... Or any high level professional for that matter for beginners is flawed IMO. High level pros have mastered the fundamentals of striking to a point where their fundamentals may be really hard to spot.

Case in point, sano references Mayweather that he often has his weight loaded to the rear and appears to have his feet flat on the ground, which he does a lot. The reality is ifif y could see his actual weight distrabution, most of his weight would be on the ball, not the entire foot. Even when he pulls hard to the rear.

Except that's not what I said. Maybe you didn't read it.

I get what you're saying, but in regards to Mayweather he puts his weight back behind his center all the time when he's playing defense. Sometimes he uses the ropes, but he does it in the middle of the ring too. The reason why he's not on the pull counter is because he is deliberately putting his weight forward before he pulls to bait the counter, so when he pulls back he has enough space to have his legs under him. I'm not Floyd and I'm not delusional enough to think that what works for him, works for me, but it's something he does. He knows when to do it and when not to do it

In no way, shape or form am I comparing myself to Mayweather or even believe that just because he can do something, I can do it. The only reason I mentioned him is because Shin brought him up and we were discussing if he pulls behind his center, which he does. I am not inspired by Mayweather's style in the slightest and I don't use the shell either.

I've seen you spout a lot of somewhat tenable advice and lord it over someone. What about you contribute something and show us your stuff?

 

[MaxMMA]

Except that's not what I said. Maybe you didn't read it.



In no way, shape or form am I comparing myself to Mayweather or even believe that just because he can do something, I can do it. The only reason I mentioned him is because Shin brought him up and we were discussing if he pulls behind his center, which he does. I am not inspired by Mayweather's style in the slightest and I don't use the shell either.

I've seen you spout a lot of somewhat tenable advice and lord it over someone. What about you contribute something and show us your stuff?

I'm not trying to Lord over anyone, I was just using you as an example of when people post stuff to be given feedback and then when people give them feedback they give excuses/explanations for their deficiencies instead of owning them and making improvements. There are lots of people that do this on this forum, you were just the latest one I noticed.

I'm not opposed to posting videos on sherdog but I haven't for a couple reason. The main one being I rely on coaches to critique me, not people online. Which as I already have said, I don't bash anyone that does. There are a lot of people that aren't fortunate enough to have access to quality instruction and self learning is the next best option, something that I do myself to supplement traditional instruction.

However if there is something specific you want to see just let me know and I can put something together that can help you out.

Right now I would encourage you to learn correct sprinting and jump rope technique and incorporate at least 1-2 sprint/rope sessions into your weekly routine. This will help you learn to work on the correct part of your foot and condition your legs to work on that part of your feet for sustained periods of time.

 

[YoungCashMoney]

Its time to open my own training thread. As I dont want to flood the forum with any new post or video regarding my progress all will be posted in this thread.

I started boxing in 10/2017, fractured my rib after 2 weeks and started again in 01/2018 with 2x/week fitnessboxing and strenght training. My main coaches back then were Precision Boxing, Fran Sands videos @ YT & Sherdog. This went on until april when I realized that I moved like a slug on valium (especially after watching @YoungCashMoney videos ) and this would have to be dealt with. Also training on your own gets to a point were its of little use without feedback.

April until June I stopped boxing completely and focused on running with cardio / speed / intervall training combined with track & field movement drills. I can now run up to 25km and have a 5km @ 20min. /[email protected]. Boxing now feels different. Lost 10kg. No strenght training anymore.

Since end of June I am a member of a boxing gym with 2x/week training and 1x/week 3min sparring with a coach. Recording in training is not possible and until now, none of my rare sparring sessions with colleagues I was allowed to record let alone upload on the Internet. Have to respect that but hope this changes. At the moment I dont have any sparring partners but will look to find some come september.

regarding the video: I recorded it now while being on vacation. Its not strict shadowboxing. I always start slow to get control and do a mix of drills (tile exercise), movement and shadow boxing. I also like to try things out that may work or may not . Focus is on staying relaxed and light on the feet. Had a little bit trouble inverting right foot with running shoes. Its probably pretty boring to watch. Gets faster midway through. Combo 12521 f.e. At 9.50min.



Sparring with my coaches is as one sided as it gets ( as expected) and they are a great help. As I have a job and family its not that possible to focus on boxing, especially as I found a renewed interest with running. But these two seem to complement each other.

My mistakes:

• not always ending a combo with a jab to get distance.
  In sparring my guard is high but I tend to put it sideways to my head and not in front which makes me vulnerable to jabs.
• My hooks suck. I have an ok slow left hook but as soon as I fasten it up it gets bad most of the time. With left I prefer kind of a shovel hook at the moment.
• leaning forward
• freezing for a split second after throwing a combo instead of moving on.

my main focus at the moment are movement drills. Its the reason why I feel more at home now in boxing and this is something I do on my own. Drills are from boxing , track&field and TMA from back in my youth. In my experience Its not really possible to learn correct punching only from videos, too many possible errors (I love the tile execise from @Sinister , helped a lot in grounding my right), but movement is of great benefit.

goals:
first one was starting boxing. Done. Next one is to get to be a stick & move boxer with focus on defense and ability to end fights. If my progress is satisfying I will try to get a fight in 2019.


What do you think about a training camp / holiday in Thailand only boxing related? This may be a possibility in 2020 but I dont know how much sense this does make in a Muay Thai country. If yes which camp would you prefer for boxing and some holiday at the sea? Annother option may be United States but my guess is that this will be too expensive.

criticism is always welcome.

Everything looks good, only places I can give advice on is you are often too squared up for my liking, opens you up for straight to the body in a big way & allows abuse of hook/uppercut combos and overall makes you look like an inviting target. The way my coach would describe it: I advise you get a bit "skinnier" with your stance and close up a bit more for some constant defense and an uninviting target. Then you look like you still have some tension in places, going through the motions is good but loosen those shoulders up and get a nice fluid snap on each shot. Speed and fluidity compliment each other.

Otherwise the technique looks good and all the fundamentals look proper.

 

[listrahtes]

@YoungCashMoney
the squared up stance is exactly my problem big time in sparring together with not commiting to my jab (I tend to only throw it as a distraction which kind of kills it as an effective feint). Good eye from you.

Regarding shoulders well thats also a hit. I am more relaxed now but still ways to go. Both mistakes are because of my TMA background were we always tensed up before punching.

Will work on that thx.

PS: I edited the post because after thinking about it both mistakes have their origin in my TMA background.

 

[shincheckin]

not bad at all

 

[Sinister]

Needing to be on the balls of the feet at all times is a myth. Just sayin'. No balance or power? If that was true no one would be able to perform squats or deadlifts with their feet flat and remain upright. Heels only need to lift or drop based on the need for rotational force, but the notion of a need to keep both heels elevated at all times is unrealistic, and compromises position to receive force, which in striking is just as important as delivering force.

 

[MaxMMA]

Needing to be on the balls of the feet at all times is a myth. Just sayin'. No balance or power? If that was true no one would be able to perform squats or deadlifts with their feet flat and remain upright. Heels only need to lift or drop based on the need for rotational force, but the notion of a need to keep both heels elevated at all times is unrealistic, and compromises position to receive force, which in striking is just as important as delivering force.

Noted, but sano and the op are striking the floor with their heels when they step or punch.

I never said the heels should be elevated at all times, even referencing boxers that appear to stand flat footed. But would you say weight distrabution should be majority on the balls of the feet rather that on the heels even if the heel is in contact with the floor?

I can't think of single instance where I would place any significant amount of weight on my heels in a stand up situation but maybe you can educate me?

Also would you agree that sano and the op would benefit greatly from learning and employing proper sprinting and roping technique to help them break the habit of balancing on their heels? Which is essentially what I see when I watch them Shadow box.

I utilize this forum not just for technical advice for myself but for coaching insight as well. I've trained and worked with numerous fighters for MMA in a bjj, wrestling, and striking capacity. Yet coaching is still new, and far more daunting task to me than fighting myself, one of my biggest fears is turning a fighter down the wrong path out of ignorance. I appreciate any insight you have to give

 

[Sano]

I'm not trying to Lord over anyone, I was just using you as an example of when people post stuff to be given feedback and then when people give them feedback they give excuses/explanations for their deficiencies instead of owning them and making improvements. There are lots of people that do this on this forum, you were just the latest one I noticed.

I'm not opposed to posting videos on sherdog but I haven't for a couple reason. The main one being I rely on coaches to critique me, not people online. Which as I already have said, I don't bash anyone that does. There are a lot of people that aren't fortunate enough to have access to quality instruction and self learning is the next best option, something that I do myself to supplement traditional instruction.

However if there is something specific you want to see just let me know and I can put something together that can help you out.

Right now I would encourage you to learn correct sprinting and jump rope technique and incorporate at least 1-2 sprint/rope sessions into your weekly routine. This will help you learn to work on the correct part of your foot and condition your legs to work on that part of your feet for sustained periods of time.

I get what you're saying but you missed the context of our conversation which was that we've had the chat a few times and we were talking about another matter. I appreciate the input from everyone, including you, and I take it to heart.

Funny thing is that I am already doing T&F drills as part of my S&C and jump rope. Working on that ankle bounding, which was also in the thread btw. Did you watch the drilling too?

Again, I appreciate the critiques, I truly do. I also see where you are getting at with the heels thing, so thank you for making me aware of that. I to tend to fall backwards at times. What I don't appreciate however is you calling me out for something I didn't say and throwing jabs without addressing me directly. It's not the first time either. Let that rest though, I don't want to hijack the thread any more than necessary.

 

[MaxMMA]

I get what you're saying but you missed the context of our conversation which was that we've had the chat a few times and we were talking about another matter. I appreciate the input from everyone, including you, and I take it to heart.

Funny thing is that I am already doing T&F drills as part of my S&C and jump rope. Working on that ankle bounding, which was also in the thread btw. Did you watch the drilling too?

Again, I appreciate the critiques, I truly do. I also see where you are getting at with the heels thing, so thank you for making me aware of that. I to tend to fall backwards at times. What I don't appreciate however is you calling me out for something I didn't say and throwing jabs without addressing me directly. It's not the first time either. Let that rest though, I don't want to hijack the thread any more than necessary.

I apologize, I didn't mean to come across like I was attacking you personally. I dont think I saw your drilling video, but I'm looking forward to seeing more videos now that you're aware of the position of feet!

 

[listrahtes]

Also would you agree that sano and the op would benefit greatly from learning and employing proper sprinting and roping technique to help them break the habit of balancing on their heels? Which is essentially what I see when I watch them Shadow box.

Honestly sometimes you should just ask someone instead of making your theories about them. I know a lot about running in general and teach this on a regular basis. I ALSO wrote in my initial post that I paused boxing for pure running. This includes 200m intervall sprints etc. My son is a track & field athlete at jumping and sprinting. How can you even write I should learn "proper sprinting" if you have never seen me sprint or even asked me about it.

You also wrote about me copying pro boxers when I never wrote something like that or even aspired to. You wrote I have no proper instruction when I wrote in my post that I have good coaches. I do really appreciate the internet as it broadens my horizon in boxing a lot. Its a little strange with you. I am thankful that you want to help but really just ask sometimes instead of putting out things like that.

And I dont really like how all this derails my thread. All this stuff between you and Sano has nothing to do with me training and I in general dont think these kind of passive agressive posts help anyone. This is about learning boxing, not what Sano does wrong (thats his business).