Many Muslims Have More Freedom to Practice Their Religion in the USA than in the Middle East

[Seano]

The jury is still out I’m waiting for the resident expert to chime in prove me wrong by actually addressing Islam in the western world. So far all I see is double talk and denial. Or at least an admission they know zero about Islam in the west.

I don't care what people celebrate so long as it doesn't impede the progress we have made as a society.

Forgive me for being skeptical when I look at what goes on in Muslim dominated countries around the world and what happens when we introduce people with those beliefs into this society.

Established religions in the states have been the subject of mockery over the past 20 years while we have no issue with people who promote beliefs that directly contradict what we do as a society and in fact, fight and literally cry to bring these people into the mix.

 

[trac209]

I don't care what people celebrate so long as it doesn't impede the progress we have made as a society.

Forgive me for being skeptical when I look at what goes on in Muslim dominated countries around the world and what happens when we introduce people with those beliefs into this society.

Established religions in the states have been the subject of mockery over the past 20 years while we have no issue with people who promote beliefs that directly contradict what we do as a society and in fact, fight and literally cry to bring these people into the mix.

Well said,I agree whole heartily

 

[platypus44]

Muslims in the United States: 3,500,000
Muslims in the entire world: 1,600,000,000

This idea that Muslims all over the world are flocking into a country they know doesn’t oppress them is statistically quite silly...

The direction of the flow seems to be very obvious. Not many Muslims leaving the US.

 

[platypus44]

If Turkey hypothetically had 23 times the military might of the US and was killing thousands of innocent people in America with drone strikes I’d totally move to Turkey. Way safer place to practice my religion free from attack!

Drone strikes are limited to terrorist infested areas in a few countries. All sorts of Muslims are moving to the US and Western Europe from areas which have never had drone strikes. And why don't you ask a Kurd or an Alevi or a follower of Gulen what things are like for them in Turkey some time?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Kafir-kun I’ll address what you just said. I would wager 85 if not more percent of this forum is from the western world. So our only concern about Islamic violence to be really honest with you only stems from the issue of immigration and bringing your shit to us. The Middle East has always been a religious hotbed of conflict,and I suspect it always will be. You although seemly quite knowledgeable on Islam always cherry pick issues placed before you. If you can answer this one question I will never question you again. Do you believe the western fear of Islamic immigrants is justified? If not please explain why not

So that justifies derailing? Not IMO. As far as your question, I plead the 5th

 

[trac209]

So that justifies derailing? Not IMO. As far as your question, I plead the 5th

Yeah like every other Muslim,gotcha. Way to prove my point.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yeah like every other Muslim,gotcha. Way to prove my point.

I'll tell you since you're such a simple minded moron that you hyper focus on this one issue as if its some sort of gotcha point with me. Yes, of course I understand the concerns with Islamic immigration and I've said before I don't think Western Europe should try to integrate most, if any, of its Muslim or 3rd world immigrants. If they're going to take them they should only let them stay temporarily and then repatriate them aggressively. To do so in an ethical manner would mean reducing the number of immigrants, otherwise you're hauling them like cattle in the back of trucks.

That doesn't address the issues around existing communities in countries like France, Germany, and the UK but its a start. Also its better for Muslims, since it reduces brain and capital drain from their countries.

Now kindly fuck off.

 

[platypus44]

Kafir-kun I’ll address what you just said. I would wager 85 if not more percent of this forum is from the western world. So our only concern about Islamic violence to be really honest with you only stems from the issue of immigration and bringing your shit to us. The Middle East has always been a religious hotbed of conflict,and I suspect it always will be. You although seemly quite knowledgeable on Islam always cherry pick issues placed before you. If you can answer this one question I will never question you again. Do you believe the western fear of Islamic immigrants is justified? If not please explain why not

Historically - Western Europe -especially Germany - was an enormous hotbed of religious conflict 600 years ago and there were long periods in which the Middle East was relatively quiet - especially when it was under the control of the Ottoman Empire. It may be that the Muslim world is where the Christian world was 600 years ago - not completely implausible since it started 600 years later.

 

[trac209]

I'll tell you since you're such a simple minded moron that you hyper focus on this one issue as if its some sort of gotcha point with me. Yes, of course I understand the concerns with Islamic immigration and I've said before I don't think Western Europe should try to integrate most, if any, of its Muslim or 2rd world immigrants. If they're going to take them they should only let them stay temporarily and then repatriate them aggressively. To do so in an ethical manner would mean reducing the number of immigrants, otherwise you're hauling them like cattle in the back of trucks.

That doesn't address the issues around existing communities in countries like France, Germany, and the UK but its a start. Also its better for Muslims, since it reduces brain and capital drain from their countries.

Now kindly fuck off.

Took so much to get you to say anything and you still managed to down play it.
It is not my fault your religion isn’t wanted and causes issues. It is your blatant silence and refusing to rise up with your so called peaceful majority bullshit and fix your own problems with Islam. Funny you should say fuck off because we aren’t allowed to even tell our Muslims to do so. Islamophobia is real you know. Your the fuck one who believes a fucking fairytale god not the enlightened. Remember that when you think your some sort of genius

 

[Islam Imamate]

Took so much to get you to say anything and you still managed to down play it.

Because I'm tired of going back and forth with idiots like you who spout off when you don't know what you're talking about

It is not my fault your religion isn’t wanted and causes issues. It is your blatant silence and refusing to rise up with your so called peaceful majority bullshit and fix your own problems with Islam. Funny you should say fuck off because we aren’t allowed to even tell our Muslims to do so. Islamophobia is real you know.

Lol at the peaceful majority rising up. You really expect your average Muslims to do...what exactly? Fly over to Syria to fight ISIS?

 

[trac209]

Historically - Western Europe -especially Germany - was an enormous hotbed of religious conflict 600 years ago and there were long periods in which the Middle East was relatively quiet - especially when it was under the control of the Ottoman Empire. It may be that the Muslim world is where the Christian world was 600 years ago - not completely implausible since it started 600 years later.

So your saying it’s a matter of geography accounting for a 600 year development gap? That’s a pretty big lagging

 

[FIMN]

The jury is still out I’m waiting for the resident expert to chime in prove me wrong by actually addressing Islam in the western world. So far all I see is double talk and denial. Or at least an admission they know zero about Islam in the west.

How about the areas in the west where muslims integrate perfectly well in western society showing that areas that don't assimilate well are not inherent in having muslim citizens?

I lived in a city with a sizable muslim population for years in a heavily muslim area and never had any issues. On not one single occasion has islam had an impact on my life.

Seems to me integration works well in some places and badly in others.

So rather than throw religious liberty, tolerance and the other things that make our societies superior to theirs, why not look at the reason for the variance?

 

[trac209]

Because I'm tired of going back and forth with idiots like you who spout off when you don't know what you're talking about

Lol at the peaceful majority rising up. You really expect your average Muslims to do...what exactly? Fly over to Syria to fight ISIS?

Lmao there are women soldiers that are doing just that. Which is exactly why the majority of “ migrants” are men 18-40. Do some research on that. The western world has been fighting Isis for years how about some fucking help. There was a video of a soldier interviewing a migrant asking why he should go fight for the country he just left. And the guy said it was just easier to leave. Th soldier then said so I should go fight for you and he responded yes sure. This Is why you’ll never see peace amongst yourselves you won’t fight for it and the ones who will have the bad agenda. Btw I’d rather be thought of as an idiot than a fucking coward. If you’re so tired of defending it to idiots you may have a perception problem. And the whole average Muslims thing is hilarious,that’s like saying the majority of Middle Eastern Muslims are radical.....you just single handed destroyed the Islamic motto

 

[trac209]

How about the areas in the west where muslims integrate perfectly well in western society showing that areas that don't assimilate well are not inherent in having muslim citizens?

I lived in a city with a sizable muslim population for years in a heavily muslim area and never had any issues. On not one single occasion has islam had an impact on my life.

Seems to me integration works well in some places and badly in others.

So rather than throw religious liberty, tolerance and the other things that make our societies superior to theirs, why not look at the reason for the variance?

I’m not saying there are none but do you have any examples?

 

[platypus44]

So your saying it’s a matter of geography accounting for a 600 year development gap? That’s a pretty big lagging

Oswald Spengler had theories about the evolution of civilizations and it is not so much geography as it is timing. Why was Northern Europe so far behind the Mediterranean area and then pulled ahead. Look at the evolution of China or Japan. His theory is that civilizations go through certain stages - the West went through a period of religious fundamentalism - the Puritans are eerily similar to the Salafi or Wahhabi Muslims. We had brutal religious wars in the early years of the Protestant Reformation and a Christian with the wrong beliefs could probably live more easily in areas controlled by the Ottoman Empire than in many parts of Western Europe. The Muslim world in - in terms of religious evolution and demography - in a stage of instability and violence but this is likely to pass. It is not eternal.

 

[trac209]

Oswald Spengler had theories about the evolution of civilizations and it is not so much geography as it is timing. Why was Northern Europe so far behind the Mediterranean area and then pulled ahead. Look at the evolution of China or Japan. His theory is that civilizations go through certain stages - the West went through a period of religious fundamentalism - the Puritans are eerily similar to the Salafi or Wahhabi Muslims. We had brutal religious wars in the early years of the Protestant Reformation and a Christian with the wrong beliefs could probably live more easily in areas controlled by the Ottoman Empire than in many parts of Western Europe. The Muslim world in - in terms of religious evolution and demography - in a stage of instability and violence but this is likely to pass. It is not eternal.

Interesting,while were waiting for it to pass in the year of 2017 it would be nice to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Lmao there are women soldiers that are doing just that. Which is exactly why the majority of “ migrants” are men 18-40. Do some research on that. The western world has been fighting Isis for years how about some fucking help. There was a video of a soldier interviewing a migrant asking why he should go fight for the country he just left. And the guy said it was just easier to leave. Th soldier then said so I should go fight for you and he responded yes sure. This Is why you’ll never see peace amongst yourselves you won’t fight for it and the ones who will have the bad agenda. Btw I’d rather be thought of as an idiot than a fucking coward. If you’re so tired of defending it to idiots you may have a perception problem. And the whole average Muslims thing is hilarious,that’s like saying the majority of Middle Eastern Muslims are radical.....you just single handed destroyed the Islamic motto

See, this is why I don't care to oblige morons like you. Have a good day.

 

[trac209]

See, this is why I don't care to oblige morons like you. Have a good day.

Again you have no clue...Name calling is all you have and it means absolutely nothing to me. Congrats Your truly in the minority on this issue

 

[Islam Imamate]

Again you have no clue...Name calling is all you have and it means absolutely nothing to me. Congrats Your truly in the minority on this issue

Lol at me having no clue when you thought Egypt became a Muslim country in the last few years. Get real pinhead, and maybe go read a fucking book while you're at it.

 

[FIMN]

I’m not saying there are none but do you have any examples?

Yes. I lived in the city for years with no issues. My friends live in cities across the UK with no significant issues. Integration can always be better but throwing out the principles that define our society is a bit dumb really.

The idea of some kind of pending civil war, no go zones or any other BS is detached from reality for 99.5% of the population. That's the reason for the disconnect you're seeing.