Measuring the power of the hardest hitting middleweights

spacetime

Banned
Banned
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
11,863
Reaction score
320
Have there ever been any studies on whether the hardest hitting middle weights of all time are comparable with in force to heavyweights? I'm thinking of guys like Julian Jackson.

How close do you think he was to heavyweights in general, and the hardest hitting ones specifically?

He must have punched harder than Ali?
 
Have there ever been any studies on whether the hardest hitting middle weights of all time are comparable with in force to heavyweights? I'm thinking of guys like Julian Jackson.

How close do you think he was to heavyweights in general, and the hardest hitting ones specifically?

He must have punched harder than Ali?
I love these sort of questions. There hasn't been, to my knowledge a study of the hardest hitting MW's but if you want some idea of how MW's compare to HW's then have a look at this study I link to. To surmise it basically says that there isn't much difference at all in speed of punch, so that doesn't determine the difference in power very much. What matters was what they termed 'effective punch mass'. As you would guess a HW has a higher effective punch mass than a MW. The range of effective punch mass is only measured in mere kilos but quite clearly you could work out that the boxers with better technique were the ones who would be able to generate a higher effective mass by getting more of their body into their punch. HW's have more bodyweight so could get a higher proportion of that weight into the punch, leading to a higher effective mass. Anyway here's the study: http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/710

Also relating to your question I'm pretty sure that the Olympic boxing team did a study on punch power on it's fighters at the 2000 games and found that Jeff Lacy was the most powerful puncher not the HW's.
 
I love these sort of questions. There hasn't been, to my knowledge a study of the hardest hitting MW's but if you want some idea of how MW's compare to HW's then have a look at this study I link to. To surmise it basically says that there isn't much difference at all in speed of punch, so that doesn't determine the difference in power very much. What matters was what they termed 'effective punch mass'. As you would guess a HW has a higher effective punch mass than a MW. The range of effective punch mass is only measured in mere kilos but quite clearly you could work out that the boxers with better technique were the ones who would be able to generate a higher effective mass by getting more of their body into their punch. HW's have more bodyweight so could get a higher proportion of that weight into the punch, leading to a higher effective mass. Anyway here's the study: http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/710

Also relating to your question I'm pretty sure that the Olympic boxing team did a study on punch power on it's fighters at the 2000 games and found that Jeff Lacy was the most powerful puncher not the HW's.

The reason I ask is because I do punch harder than a heavyweight steroid head. I am about 25 kgs lighter. He swings like a brawler but still... 25 kgs is a lot. And he is all muscle.
 
The reason I ask is because I do punch harder than a heavyweight steroid head. I am about 25 kgs lighter. He swings like a brawler but still... 25 kgs is a lot. And he is all muscle.

General studies probably couldn't account for your unique levels of badassery.
 
The reason I ask is because I do punch harder than a heavyweight steroid head. I am about 25 kgs lighter. He swings like a brawler but still... 25 kgs is a lot. And he is all muscle.
Problem is you are comparing yourselves to elite professional boxers. If you were both of a decent standard then you'd both punch to your potential power which is governed by your size. Sounds like the heavy weight has some severe technique issues that don't allow him to generate his highest effective mass. You may be at a higher skill level than him which accounts for the difference in power but when you get to elite levels the HW's have developed proper punch mechanics and so can punch harder than the equivalent MW.

Look at this study for results of compared low skill levels with higher skill levels. The higher skilled punchers hit significantly harder than the low level proponents. http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/710
 
Problem is you are comparing yourselves to elite professional boxers. If you were both of a decent standard then you'd both punch to your potential power which is governed by your size. Sounds like the heavy weight has some severe technique issues that don't allow him to generate his highest effective mass. You may be at a higher skill level than him which accounts for the difference in power but when you get to elite levels the HW's have developed proper punch mechanics and so can punch harder than the equivalent MW.

Look at this study for results of compared low skill levels with higher skill levels. The higher skilled punchers hit significantly harder than the low level proponents. http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/710

Yes of course I am more skilled but he can still hit like a tank. I am questioning the proverbial wisdom that lighter guys can't KO and punch as hard as some of the bigger dudes. I would be very surprised if I can't flatline him with a punch. We are about the same height and reach. He is just bigger.
 
Last edited:
If lighter wrestlers can outwrestle power lifters, then surely technical and explosive punchers can KO bigger, stiff dudes because the lighter fighter uses his body more effectively. And a lot of heavyweights are slow punchers.
 
Yes of course I am more skilled but he can still hit like a tank. I am questioning the proverbial wisdom that lighter guys can't KO and punch as hard as some of the bigger dudes. I would be very surprised if I can't flatline him with a punch. We are about the same height and reach. He is just bigger.
Did you bother to read the study's I presented? The bigger you are the harder you can potentially punch but you can only achieve that if you have good punch technique. If his frame is the same as you then depending on his neck size he might be a similar punch resistance to you. Jeff Lacy was the hardest punching boxer on the 2000 US Olympic team so it shows that yes smaller guys can punch harder than bigger guys but other studies show a general trend that the bigger you are the heavier you punch. Julian Jackson was a massive puncher for a MW but I doubt he punches anywhere close to Earnie Shavers.
 
Did you bother to read the study's I presented? The bigger you are the harder you can potentially punch but you can only achieve that if you have good punch technique. If his frame is the same as you then depending on his neck size he might be a similar punch resistance to you. Jeff Lacy was the hardest punching boxer on the 2000 US Olympic team so it shows that yes smaller guys can punch harder than bigger guys but other studies show a general trend that the bigger you are the heavier you punch. Julian Jackson was a massive puncher for a MW but I doubt he punches anywhere close to Earnie Shavers.

I don't need a study to know that the bigger you are, the harder you can punch. Ernie Shavers punched harder than anyone. What I want to know is if Jackson punches harder or at least equal to an average punch from a heavyweight. I bet you he will punch at east equal.
 
I don't need a study to know that the bigger you are, the harder you can punch. Ernie Shavers punched harder than anyone. What I want to know is if Jackson punches harder than an average punch from a heavyweight.
I'd say it's quite possible yes. If Jeff Lacy could punch harder than the SHW's and HW's on his team then I don't see why Julian couldn't punch harder than the average HW. But you are obviously aren't Julian Jackson.
 
I'd say it's quite possible yes. If Jeff Lacy could punch harder than the SHW's and HW's on his team then I don't see why Julian couldn't punch harder than the average HW. But you are obviously aren't Julian Jackson.

The Olympics is more technique oriented due to the rules... But then again, it's the same for everyone involved.

I don't know if my hardest punch is like Julian Jackson but it's harder than Ali. I will show you in a few days.
 
please stop replying to this sort of shit
 
FWIW, Mike Tyson believed Marciano was the hardest puncher. In particular the hook that put Joe Louis's lights out. I find that hard to believe concidering the short trajectory of the punch.
 
please stop replying to this sort of shit
I will. I first responded taking it as a serious question that the TS wanted some wisdom about the subject but then he revealed it as a pathetic ego stroking exercise.
 
Last edited:
Problem is you are comparing yourselves to elite professional boxers. If you were both of a decent standard then you'd both punch to your potential power which is governed by your size. Sounds like the heavy weight has some severe technique issues that don't allow him to generate his highest effective mass. You may be at a higher skill level than him which accounts for the difference in power but when you get to elite levels the HW's have developed proper punch mechanics and so can punch harder than the equivalent MW.

Look at this study for results of compared low skill levels with higher skill levels. The higher skilled punchers hit significantly harder than the low level proponents. http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/710
that looks interesting, i'll look at it later. I still say it really isn't easy measuring power, too many variables so there will always be an element of mystery to the kayo blow.
 
I would love actual numbers on boxers and mma fighters. Something like a combine test. There’s just no reason to do it in combat sports.

Weight and size matter but anthropometry is more important.

In powerlifting you have 220 pound guys out deadlifting gigantic mass monsters who weigh 100 pounds more than them. Because they’re built better for the lift.
 
Problem is you are comparing yourselves to elite professional boxers. If you were both of a decent standard then you'd both punch to your potential power which is governed by your size. Sounds like the heavy weight has some severe technique issues that don't allow him to generate his highest effective mass. You may be at a higher skill level than him which accounts for the difference in power but when you get to elite levels the HW's have developed proper punch mechanics and so can punch harder than the equivalent MW.

Look at this study for results of compared low skill levels with higher skill levels. The higher skilled punchers hit significantly harder than the low level proponents. http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/710

In the 80s Rene Weller a professional lightweight and european champ did such a power measuring and punched higher than a national amateur LHW with much less experience but still quite formidable boxer. I dont have the numbers but will look if I can find them. Testing definitely wasnt as sophisticated as in your study. Imo that shows very well what you wrote that technical expertise plays a huge part if skill level is that much different (but there really has to be a gap). People in general greatly underestimate lighter weight world class fighters regarding their punching power. And like your study the less skill discrepancy the more relevant weight gets.

Thanks for the study. Always interesting. Great idea to use a crash test dummy.
 
Last edited:
Have there ever been any studies on whether the hardest hitting middle weights of all time are comparable with in force to heavyweights? I'm thinking of guys like Julian Jackson.

How close do you think he was to heavyweights in general, and the hardest hitting ones specifically?

He must have punched harder than Ali?

It’s all guess work unless, like the post on here from blunttrauma, someone has sparred or fought the top guys. Julian Jackson hit hard, but how can we prove g man didn’t hit just as hard? I think he did?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top