Miami Mega Jail

i can go all day on this subject. american jails and prisons are basically university for criminals. if someone commits a crime out of desparation, we lock them in a room with a bunch of hardened criminals with nothing to do all day except talk about crimes, form gangs and plan crimes for when they get out. then they get out into the same desperate situation, except now they had 6 months talking about the best way to rob, and we expect them to not rob anyone

youre not rude for saying a lot seem retarded, inner city "hoodrat" culture breeds a lot of people that arent compatible with civilized society, then they spend a lifetime going in and out of jail, because thats all theyre capable of

i think we shold
A-separate members of prison gangs into more divided sections so that they never interact during their stay
B-brutal punishment for gang activity
C-forced labor, to both pay for the jailing system and to give them work experience for when they get out

i havent watched that video, but many of the prisons arent in cells, its literally a big hangout for members of the same gang
article-0-15B34CEB000005DC-339_964x530.jpg

Well you cant segregate them too much unless you drop them into solitary. But you cant just do that unless they do something very bad. All you can do is send them to different prisons, or different wings of a prison, but the gangs will simply change their demographic to fit their situation.
 
I apologize for the length of this post, and that it’s mostly annecdotal, but it reflects my thoughts on our system of incarceration. I studied Criminal Justice in college, and although it’s not the career I have chosen, it’s always held interest for me. As part of my studies I went on several ride alongs with police departments. The stop that I often think about when contemplating our CJ system involved a college student who was arrested for possession of some joints and hash oil. We had picked him up outside a party. He was chatting to some girls and throwing empty beer bottles into the parking lot of an apartment complex, while drinking others. The police had been called because some people in the apartments were concerned about the broken glass. When the cop I was with showed up he started to mouth off because it was a female cop. Well eventually he was placed under arrest and he had the pot and hash oil in his pocket. As he was being taken to the station he started to bawl, saying it was his third strike, all this stuff and I genuinely felt sorry for him. When we got to the station, though, it all changed and he started to call out the cop, calling her some names and saying she’d better not incuff him or he was going to kick her ass, all that stuff. She just ignored it and ended up dropping the possession charges so he wouldn’t be on his third strike, just gave him a minor and a fine for the bottles. He still had to spend the rest of the night in the holding cell, though. He responded by spitting in her face and telling her that she was lucky she was armed.

I’ve often wondered, would jail have been the better or worse outcome for him? On the one hand, he was pretty aggressive during the arrest, and threatened to physically harm the officer on multiple occasions, including threatening sexual assault. On the other, he was a college student, so presumably somewhat put together. Was his aggression his true nature, and he deserved to be held away from other folks? Was his recidivism due to his natural aggression and contempt for the generally accepted rules of society? Or was he just fronting to impress the girls in the parking lot, and the other guys in the holding tank that he’d have to spend the night with? Was his crying in the cop car his true self? I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a combination of both. The punishment of jail, and more so the isolation of aggressive people from others, is necessary. Giving breaks doesn’t seem to always work, sometimes the carrot isn’t enough motivation. But it’s also clear that his anger needed a better outlet, but ultimately he was going to school at a major university so he couldn’t have been too terribly dysfunctional. Could someone who threatened a cop be rehabilitated? Can that anger go away or find an outlet? Or is jail just the natural place for someone like him? I truly can’t decide, and frequently go back and forth on those questions.

I can't believe you are divided on this example. Look at his behaviors and than re assess his crocodile tears, you were played. How many chances was he given that you don't know about. He spat in her face, that's assault to me and worse yet maybe gave her a communicable decease. Jail the scum.
 


So, I was watching Miami mega jail by Louis Theroux the other night. I have seen other good productions by same man, and I really like the way he approach peoples.

Anyway. I have always been divided when it comes to how the best way could be to do jail time. Punishment or rehab? But when I see some of the inmates, I´m wondering if they can be saved at all. What can a 25+ year old man do to change his situation when he has served his term? Am I rude to think that many of them seemed quite retarded? Or is it the way they are talking? I had to use subs to follow their conversations.

I´m again asking the american audience for some good intel. Is the american jail-system working in general? Some of the most violent inmates in this film are quite scary to watch. But at the same time I feel a little bit sad when I see them. It just feels like they are animals locked away. Not a good-feeling environment if you ask me.


I remember watching this a while back if you really like it I highly recommend Ross Kemp he’s not a pussy like Louis. Although I think Louis fakes that timid I’m dumb front so people open up more. I still quote the guy that says GABOS....the name of the game is GABOS hahaha (game ain’t based on sympathy)
 
until they commit more crimes in prisons, or shortly after getting out, then you jail them longer and it ends up costing more (plus the missed tax revenue of not being a working citizen)

Look at the Mexican mafia. Most of them are lifers. They run a massive amount of prisons, and they use this influence to exert incredible control in the streets. So much US violence is due to those fuckers. Gas em.
 
Agrarian colony. Let them raise wheat/corn for sustenance. Excess can be donated to society.
 
i can go all day on this subject. american jails and prisons are basically university for criminals. if someone commits a crime out of desparation, we lock them in a room with a bunch of hardened criminals with nothing to do all day except talk about crimes, form gangs and plan crimes for when they get out. then they get out into the same desperate situation, except now they had 6 months talking about the best way to rob, and we expect them to not rob anyone

youre not rude for saying a lot seem retarded, inner city "hoodrat" culture breeds a lot of people that arent compatible with civilized society, then they spend a lifetime going in and out of jail, because thats all theyre capable of

i think we shold
A-separate members of prison gangs into more divided sections so that they never interact during their stay
B-brutal punishment for gang activity
C-forced labor, to both pay for the jailing system and to give them work experience for when they get out

i havent watched that video, but many of the prisons arent in cells, its literally a big hangout for members of the same gang
article-0-15B34CEB000005DC-339_964x530.jpg

Wow, thanks for this insightful response. I have to agree on your entire post.

But the photo you added got me in a total shock. I really love USA and during my lifetime I have met people from east to west. Most of them meeting, when I was living in Thailand. I´m a sucker for good stories and as a person I am just curious about your culture. Although I have never really got an satisfied answer why Americans never take of their shoes while entering their beds.

When I think of USA and all the good stories I have collected, it baffles me that a inspirational source of safety (not with the current president) and know-how of myriads of things, the same country can inhabit, for me very extreme ideas of how to do things.

So, back to the photo. The photo itself is pure culture shock for me. We (Sweden) could not have this kind of big areas, housing hundreds of inmates in the same room. And certainly not sleeping together! What happens if they start to fight? Do you actually have manpower to take them on if all them decided to jump the guards? Is this the norm in all prisons? Or is it an emergency solution because of over crowded prisons?

I have more questions, but this will do for now.

Thanks again!
 
It saves money to let gangs run the prisons.

Please elaborate. But please do it in words that lesser non-english speaking people can understand. I know you, for your insane cryptic labyrinth of words. Yes, I read a lot of your posts. Very enlightening!

Depends on what you mean by "working". It's getting them off the street for however long their sentence is. I'd prefer criminals work off the value of whatever was stolen or damaged, and they should just kill murderers and pedos the day after the trial. No 10-15 years on death row while you write your memoirs and sire a few kids from conjugal visits, the next day.

I get what you are saying and agree on them working and pay of their crimes. But to kill them of the day after trial? What if they are innocent? It has happend before and will happen again. To name a very cruel case is that about Timothy Evans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Evans

HexjraL.jpg


Anyway some people are just too damaged emotionally from shit lives and garbage environment to be able to behave normally in society. There's no saving them.

Yeah the bitter reality. But does it help if they have to be locked in like that? Unreal picture!

Part of the problem is we throw these people in jail for years (most of which have nothing going for them at the time) then let them free and say "good luck". I don't understand why we aren't trying to educate them give them some trade skills and things like that. Would even be great to get companies signed on to give them jobs right as they get out. Maybe give those companies tax breaks for hiring so many inmates etc.

Also we need to look into getting rid of this background check or adjusting or something. You shouldn't be denied jobs for a felony you committed 15 years ago when you were 18 if you've done nothing wrong since that time. Maybe for bank jobs or other high level jobs like that they can have access but the local refinery shouldn't worry about it (even though most don't already).

Well said!

Having worked in the court system unfortunately there are some guys that commit their first crime, can't bail out, and then change to survive in jail while awaiting trial or a decent plea deal and then come right back because they can't adjust to what they were prior to going in.

Then you have cockbags that threaten to stab pregnant girlfriends with ball point pens in the stomach that will always be assholes.

You are a very sane man.

Some of them can be rehabbed, but not a lot. I have a buddy who did some serious time in a colorado federal pen, he did what he had to do for a few years and now runs a really successful tree trimming business. The ones that are in lockup now; if you are sentenced to over 6 months you should have to work for pennies. They can learn a trade and also be of a tiny benefit to society instead of just taking up space.

Yeah, totally agree on their contribution to society. They have to know they did wrong, but we as a society just have to give them a chance to prove them self. If they are scared they will run in to same pattern again, then give them a chance to relocate another place and start on a fresh and be ready to do so.

I dunno, OP, but Louis Theroux is the mofuckin shit.

Yeah, really like him!

This has got to be the most lame, pussy-ass post I’ve ever read on this forum!

Ever? Why?

I remember watching this a while back if you really like it I highly recommend Ross Kemp he’s not a pussy like Louis. Although I think Louis fakes that timid I’m dumb front so people open up more. I still quote the guy that says GABOS....the name of the game is GABOS hahaha (game ain’t based on sympathy)

I am familiar with Ross Kemp. Love his work, and he is really genuine and have the heart on the right place. I am fan of Extreme world series. They both are apple or oranges for me. Both very good.
 
American prisons are tough by first world standards.
I wouldn't say they are child minding.

The toughness and lawlessnes basically ensures every inmate needs a gang affiliation. This will cause lots of issues.

The prison as punishment instead of rehabilitation just ensures repeat business.




How many people do you know who have been to prison multiple times?


I know several. None of them reformed. None of them are scarred of going back. That part we can change.
 
How many people do you know who have been to prison multiple times?

I know several. None of them reformed. None of them are scarred of going back. That part we can change.

I know 3 people who've been. None returned. And that's the cushy aussie jails.

Jail should have a component of making their lives easier ones they are out to get them on the path they should have been on years ago. It's not the only purpose, punishment should be part of it but no one wins with repeat offenders.
 
this "jail needs to be hell and hard labour" shit is easily debunked. just look at countries in the world where the prison system is worse than in the USA and where there's hard labour. does it deter crime? absolutely not. it's a childish way to look at crime and what causes crime, and it also ignores the incentive private prisons provide to frame people for crimes they didn't commit, or to enforce draconian laws and penalties for non-violent offenses such as cannabis possession.
 
this "jail needs to be hell and hard labour" shit is easily debunked. just look at countries in the world where the prison system is worse than in the USA and where there's hard labour. does it deter crime? absolutely not. it's a childish way to look at crime and what causes crime, and it also ignores the incentive private prisons provide to frame people for crimes they didn't commit, or to enforce draconian laws and penalties for non-violent offenses such as cannabis possession.


Sure seems to work for Singapore.


http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Singapore/United-States/Crime

http://www.asiaone.com/singapore/ex-convicts-jail-tough-no-inmate-abuse



The problem is, you non Americans don't understand, we have a culture problem here. The gang/thug culture (which involves all races btw) glorifies drugs, violence, broken families, failure in education, etc.

People here just get out of jail and go right back into crime.

Part of this, is that jail isn't tough here. 3 meals a day, bed, tv, access to drugs is easy.

Are you really arguing what we're doing here is working?

It's not.
 
Are you really arguing what we're doing here is working?

It's not.
agreed, mass incarceration with a large portion of it for non violent offenses is not working.

would you really want to have Singapore's law system in the US? or maybe the Soviet Russian gulag type prisons?
 
agreed, mass incarceration with a large portion of it for non violent offenses is not working.

would you really want to have Singapore's law system in the US? or maybe the Soviet Russian gulag type prisons?



I would be fine with Singapores system, including capital punishment.

I'm fine with that being for violent crime only. However, I have news for you. People here don't go to jail for a little bit of pot. You have to push some weight to end up in prison.

The fact is, we need to do something different here, with the rise of heroine, It's killing tons of people and ruining lives.


Do you know any heroine addicts? I do, they're just husks with the singular goal of getting high. How many lives need to be ruined before we take it seriously? You think cushy jails, where people can easily get drugs is the answer???
 
I would be fine with Singapores system, including capital punishment.

I'm fine with that being for violent crime only. However, I have news for you. People here don't go to jail for a little bit of pot. You have to push some weight to end up in prison.

The fact is, we need to do something different here, with the rise of heroine, It's killing tons of people and ruining lives.

Do you know any heroine addicts? I do, they're just husks with the singular goal of getting high. How many lives need to be ruined before we take it seriously? You think cushy jails, where people can easily get drugs is the answer???
yeah, i have known heroine addicts. i knew a guy who used to be a heroine addict, he got clean and has stayed clean. jail is absolutely not the answer, cushy or not; rehab programs are. you put an addict in jail with violent offenders, you're only making things worse. it has a negative overall effect on the person and society.

i grew up in a neighborhood with plenty of dealers and drug users, mostly pot but with a significant amount of bars that would sell heroine/coke under the table. every couple of months there would be a police raid and would find underaged prostitutes in the upper floors of the bar. i think severe actions for pimps/heroine dealers is necessary.

if you were sincere about taking the heroine epidemic seriously, the last thing you want to do is criminalize their addiction.
 
I dunno, OP, but Louis Theroux is the mofuckin shit.

Don't know if you've seen it or not, but he just had the first episode of his new series, Dark States, air here in the UK on Sunday night. It was all about heroin addiction in West Virginia. Next week's is about sex trafficking in Houston.
 
For starters, privatization of prisons isn't helping. I remember reading an article a while back about private groups advertising prisoner 'return' rate. I think in pretty much all non-violent offenses, rehabilitation (and restitution where possible) should be the primary purpose of imprisonment. I'm against people calling for brutally harsh sentences, but the trade off for deterrence isn't worth it. There's definitely cases where people don't necessarily 'deserve' capital punishment, but simply need to be removed from society.

So basically double down on what isn't working currently?

If you are going to let them out eventually you are not well served by fucking them up worse.

This so much.
 
yeah, i have known heroine addicts. i knew a guy who used to be a heroine addict, he got clean and has stayed clean. jail is absolutely not the answer, cushy or not; rehab programs are. you put an addict in jail with violent offenders, you're only making things worse. it has a negative overall effect on the person and society.

i grew up in a neighborhood with plenty of dealers and drug users, mostly pot but with a significant amount of bars that would sell heroine/coke under the table. every couple of months there would be a police raid and would find underaged prostitutes in the upper floors of the bar. i think severe actions for pimps/heroine dealers is necessary.

if you were sincere about taking the heroine epidemic seriously, the last thing you want to do is criminalize their addiction.



Not criminalize the addicts, go after the dealers. Less drugs on the streets is the goal.



Out of curiosity, do they have methodone in your country for addicts?

We have it here, but I'm not sure how much good it does. Seems to just be trading one drug for another. Both guys I know on it, abuse it when they can.
 
Not criminalize the addicts, go after the dealers. Less drugs on the streets is the goal.



Out of curiosity, do they have methodone in your country for addicts?

We have it here, but I'm not sure how much good it does. Seems to just be trading one drug for another. Both guys I know on it, abuse it when they can.
yeah, we have methadone and subutex. i'm not sure how well it works either, but it does seem to be a trade-off. at least they don't have to go to shady dealers in crackhouses to get their fix, more chance to get them out of criminality that way.

there is an illegal trade in subutex though, it gets sold on the black market in Eastern Europe or countries where it's illegal.
 

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