Michael Jai White Training - Striking with Maximum Power Lesson

As for the other gentleman who said he has a kyokushin bb ergo he probably fought alot more than kimbo ... If i recall correctly white claims he got a bb in Kyokushin in his early to mid teens. Which im pretty sure isnt a thing thats possible . Posters here with a Kk background can chime in.
I'm not sure what the other guy is trying to argue, he hasn't fought any top level MMA guys. In answer to your question though:
He earned his first black belt at 13, at that time he was studying both Kyokushin and Shotokan. It's not impossible but it is rare for someone to get a black belt in kyokushin at that age, but shotokan is more likely - his website doesn't specify. He has won 27 martial arts tournaments, I assume a large portion were smaller point based regional tournaments. Wouldn't claim him to be a world class fighter by any means, but compared to Kimbo who's most significant wins were in my back yard, I'd be hesitant to write him off.
 
But theres some gross exaggerations going on here. Which i find odd as this forum hasnt applied them to other movie martial artists of the same caliber. Theres absolutely zero proof hes has fought or sparred any high caliber opponents. All we have is regional point karate matches from back in the day.

The fighters he talked too in the videos arent saying anything though, thats the thing. In the article you posted its White talking himself up and the article writer claiming he fought and sparred hightly talented fighters.

In fairness there is only one person in this forum claiming that he's fought top level fighters.

I'd say there is often too much scrutiny on this board, no one was really being negative until that one twerp came along and said 'Kimbo would beat him he's a real fighter'. The guy clearly has knowledge that's beneficial to know and it's worth sharing.Obviously I'm not saying that you DON'T think that, but I do often notice other posters jump on ANYONE that doesn't have a pro fighting record or recorded fights, which isn't a helpful thing to do.
 
I'm not sure what the other guy is trying to argue, he hasn't fought any top level MMA guys. In answer to your question though:
He earned his first black belt at 13, at that time he was studying both Kyokushin and Shotokan. It's not impossible but it is rare for someone to get a black belt in kyokushin at that age, but shotokan is more likely - his website doesn't specify. He has won 27 martial arts tournaments, I assume a large portion were smaller point based regional tournaments. Wouldn't claim him to be a world class fighter by any means, but compared to Kimbo who's most significant wins were in my back yard, I'd be hesitant to write him off.
In fairness there is only one person in this forum claiming that he's fought top level fighters.

I'd say there is often too much scrutiny on this board, no one was really being negative until that one twerp came along and said 'Kimbo would beat him he's a real fighter'. The guy clearly has knowledge that's beneficial to know and it's worth sharing.Obviously I'm not saying that you DON'T think that, but I do often notice other posters jump on ANYONE that doesn't have a pro fighting record or recorded fights, which isn't a helpful thing to do.

If I was given advice I would take MJW from a theoretical standpoint and Kimbo from a practical standpoint. Why because having to fight can't be just about the perfect execution of scientific based technique, it involves a lot more mentally.

Bas Rutten said it the best you can say you would do this or do that but can you do it under pressure - you don't know until then. I would value Kimbo's advice more because he's been in that situation where he's faced the pressure and performed under it from fighting in back yards to big events in front of thousands of people. MJW is probably giving the right advice and I'm not doubting him but I'd take it with a grain of salt. I'm no expert this is just my opinion
 
If I was given advice I would take MJW from a theoretical standpoint and Kimbo from a practical standpoint. Why because having to fight can't be just about the perfect execution of scientific based technique, it involves a lot more mentally.

Bas Rutten said it the best you can say you would do this or do that but can you do it under pressure - you don't know until then. I would value Kimbo's advice more because he's been in that situation where he's faced the pressure and performed under it from fighting in back yards to big events in front of thousands of people. MJW is probably giving the right advice and I'm not doubting him but I'd take it with a grain of salt. I'm no expert this is just my opinion

I don't think that your opinion is unreasonable, I'm just not sure why we're pretending like there isn't tape of MJW fighting. I'm not the biggest fan of point fighting either but the idea that you're not put under pressure is a little silly to me.

When you look at the advice that MJW is giving its things like, don't telegraph, make sure you have proper fist allignment. This is all stuff that @Sinister talks about all the time but for some reason when it comes from an actor in movies we all of a sudden get sceptical... yet we will take the same advice from someone at the gym with less qualification.

I get where you're coming from but the things we hear about from MJW aren't just theoretical, they are tried, true and often under appreciated aspects of fighting.
 
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I don't think that you're opinion is unreasonable, I'm just not sure why we're pretending like there isn't tape of MJW fighting. I'm not the biggest fan of point fighting either but the idea that you're not put under pressure is a little silly to me.

When you look at the advice that MJW is giving its things like, don't telegraph, make sure you have proper fist allignment. This is all stuff that @Sinister talks about all the time but for some reason when it comes from an actor in movies we all of a sudden get sceptical... yet we will take the same advice from someone at the gym with less qualification.

I get where you're coming from but the things we hear about from MJW aren't just theoretical, they are tried, true and often under appreciated aspects of fighting.


The point karate is way too light in terms of contact when compared to boxing where someone is trying to knock you out cold or muay thai where your ribs, arms, and legs can be broken in an instant, or even getting into a street fight. You can't compare the two. The difference in pressure is so high that most people who aren't professionals or used to it would have their brains run on subconscious functions that they don't even realize.

I get that what MJW is saying is true and I would still respect it but like I said before I would probably value Kimbo's advice more because he's been in that pressure pot both on a street level and professional level if you know what I mean. People will probably say that Kimbo didn't do well in mma or he wasn't "good" but he's still a proven fighter. I still like MJW though and think he's in great shape, he could probably pull off saying he's like 37 - 39 years old
 
The point karate is way too light in terms of contact when compared to boxing where someone is trying to knock you out cold or muay thai where your ribs, arms, and legs can be broken in an instant, or even getting into a street fight. You can't compare the two. The difference in pressure is so high that most people who aren't professionals or used to it would have their brains run on subconscious functions that they don't even realize.

I get that what MJW is saying is true and I would still respect it but like I said before I would probably value Kimbo's advice more because he's been in that pressure pot both on a street level and professional level if you know what I mean. People will probably say that Kimbo didn't do well in mma or he wasn't "good" but he's still a proven fighter. I still like MJW though and think he's in great shape, he could probably pull off saying he's like 37 - 39 years old

I don't agree completely on the grounds that I've seen people get knocked out in point karate. Keep in mind I coach Muay Thai, so I'm not a TMA enthusiast by any means.

Aside from that, there's nothing he is saying that really requires a grain of salt for practise. I'm not sure Kimbo COULD give you much technical advice whatsoever. If I was scared to go into a fight maybe I'd ask him how he deals with that pressure - but that's a whole different thing
 
The point karate is way too light in terms of contact when compared to boxing where someone is trying to knock you out cold or muay thai where your ribs, arms, and legs can be broken in an instant, or even getting into a street fight. You can't compare the two. The difference in pressure is so high that most people who aren't professionals or used to it would have their brains run on subconscious functions that they don't even realize.

I get that what MJW is saying is true and I would still respect it but like I said before I would probably value Kimbo's advice more because he's been in that pressure pot both on a street level and professional level if you know what I mean. People will probably say that Kimbo didn't do well in mma or he wasn't "good" but he's still a proven fighter. I still like MJW though and think he's in great shape, he could probably pull off saying he's like 37 - 39 years old

Kyokushin is NOT point karate. It is gut-puking, face-kicking shit. Granted that they don't know how to face-punch, but standing there trading full blows to the abs ain't for the weak-bodied.
 
The point karate is way too light in terms of contact when compared to boxing where someone is trying to knock you out cold or muay thai where your ribs, arms, and legs can be broken in an instant, or even getting into a street fight. You can't compare the two. The difference in pressure is so high that most people who aren't professionals or used to it would have their brains run on subconscious functions that they don't even realize.

I get that what MJW is saying is true and I would still respect it but like I said before I would probably value Kimbo's advice more because he's been in that pressure pot both on a street level and professional level if you know what I mean. People will probably say that Kimbo didn't do well in mma or he wasn't "good" but he's still a proven fighter. I still like MJW though and think he's in great shape, he could probably pull off saying he's like 37 - 39 years old

You know you're applying the same flaw that you suggest MJW has. You said earlier "I'm no expert" and yet you've twice rejected perfectly sound reasoning and fact as if you know something others don't. You're not correct about the differences between point contact and full contact. People get knocked out in point fights quite regularly. I train full contact boxers, and have worked with more than one former point contact practitioner. They are far better equipped to deal with full contact than any backyard brawler. They are more disciplined and understand concepts like distance and timing. Former point fighters have done FAR better in MMA than Kimbo did. You're just not correct on this one.
 
The point karate is way too light in terms of contact when compared to boxing where someone is trying to knock you out cold or muay thai where your ribs, arms, and legs can be broken in an instant, or even getting into a street fight. You can't compare the two. The difference in pressure is so high that most people who aren't professionals or used to it would have their brains run on subconscious functions that they don't even realize.

I get that what MJW is saying is true and I would still respect it but like I said before I would probably value Kimbo's advice more because he's been in that pressure pot both on a street level and professional level if you know what I mean. People will probably say that Kimbo didn't do well in mma or he wasn't "good" but he's still a proven fighter. I still like MJW though and think he's in great shape, he could probably pull off saying he's like 37 - 39 years old
if I’m not mistaken point based competition in the 70s and 80s has more contact than is typically seen today.

That video of teenage MJW has him knock his opponent clean off his feet twice at least

They’re two very different levels of pressure but it’s still a pressure test
 
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I don't agree completely on the grounds that I've seen people get knocked out in point karate. Keep in mind I coach Muay Thai, so I'm not a TMA enthusiast by any means.

Aside from that, there's nothing he is saying that really requires a grain of salt for practise. I'm not sure Kimbo COULD give you much technical advice whatsoever. If I was scared to go into a fight maybe I'd ask him how he deals with that pressure - but that's a whole different thing
Kyokushin is NOT point karate. It is gut-puking, face-kicking shit. Granted that they don't know how to face-punch, but standing there trading full blows to the abs ain't for the weak-bodied.

Just saw some kyokushin videos, looks pretty rough I thought it was point style. Also I was under the impression that point based karate didn't allow hard/power strikes and would get a person disqualified so I stand corrected on that. I still feel like Kimbo's experience shouldn't be discredited and would still be valuable to any amateur or average person and I was only able to find one clip of MJW from when he was younger. Not sure how it works but It looks like they stop after 1 strike is landed or a person hits the floor so wouldn't it be safe to say there is far less chance to take damage or punishment?

Basically without any disrespect to either of the 2, I feel like if a 30 year MJW fought a 30 year old Kimbo in a regular fight Kimbo would end up winning, but again that's my opinion
 
Just saw some kyokushin videos, looks pretty rough I thought it was point style. Also I was under the impression that point based karate didn't allow hard/power strikes and would get a person disqualified so I stand corrected on that. I still feel like Kimbo's experience shouldn't be discredited and would still be valuable to any amateur or average person and I was only able to find one clip of MJW from when he was younger. Not sure how it works but It looks like they stop after 1 strike is landed or a person hits the floor so wouldn't it be safe to say there is far less chance to take damage or punishment?

Way before Machida and his display of Shotokan karate working, a whole slew of kyokushin karateka had been brawling about in the ring, one of which was the legendary Andy Hug.

That's why back then (before Machida) there was a divide between "krotty" and kyokushin (and by extension Enshin Kaikan). Folks who disparaged karate would blanch when faced with kyokushin.
Basically without any disrespect to either of the 2, I feel like if a 30 year MJW fought a 30 year old Kimbo in a regular fight Kimbo would end up winning, but again that's my opinion
I agree as well. A roughhouser like Kimbo would have learned certain lessons way earlier than MJW due to his fight experience, lessons that are crucial to surviving and prevailing.
 
Just saw some kyokushin videos, looks pretty rough I thought it was point style. Also I was under the impression that point based karate didn't allow hard/power strikes and would get a person disqualified so I stand corrected on that. I still feel like Kimbo's experience shouldn't be discredited and would still be valuable to any amateur or average person and I was only able to find one clip of MJW from when he was younger. Not sure how it works but It looks like they stop after 1 strike is landed or a person hits the floor so wouldn't it be safe to say there is far less chance to take damage or punishment?

Basically without any disrespect to either of the 2, I feel like if a 30 year MJW fought a 30 year old Kimbo in a regular fight Kimbo would end up winning, but again that's my opinion


Nah. Kyokushin is a very aggressive form of knock down karate, and you don't get a black belt in kyokushin without being a fighter. So even aside from that point fighting video, I'd be shocked of MJW hadn't had a considerable amount of karate fights. Also absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. I think on Sherdog we get too hung up about tape, especially with these older martial artists as though everyone in the 1980s had a video camera that they took to every fight they had to document it. Karate tournaments aren't all televised and recorded even today. Hell, Samart Payakaroon is the greatest striker of all time and we don't have even so much as a quarter of his fights on film.

Don't get me wrong, I actually respect Kimbo. It sounds backhanded but I am genuinely impressed that he became such a big name despite being pretty bad at the sport of MMA and fighting in general. I imagine MJW flattens Kimbo standing - if Kimbo went to the ground I could see him having enough rudimentary BJJ to have an advantage - but even then it's not really relevant to the discussion of who's advice would be more valuable - because I'm fairly sure Kimbo Slice could have taken half of the stand up forum in a fight but I wouldn't take his advice over say Sano, Sinister, j123 etc.


I agree as well. A roughhouser like Kimbo would have learned certain lessons way earlier than MJW due to his fight experience, lessons that are crucial to surviving and prevailing.

Not taking the piss here, but have you actually seen Kimbo fight? Because he was genuinely awful. If he learned those lessons earlier than MJW (despite MJW being considerably older and training from younger) this doesn't come across in his fights, considering he would leap in with wild hooks... which somehow still managed to be arm punches.
 
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It's a hypothetical 30 y.o. vs 30 y.o. (which will not match up in the real world). Kimbo may have been arm punching, but learning hitting to hurt and surviving getting hurt (especially to the face), Kimbo has a slight advantage over MJW especially since they have weight differences.
 
It's a hypothetical 30 y.o. vs 30 y.o. (which will not match up in the real world). Kimbo may have been arm punching, but learning hitting to hurt and surviving getting hurt (especially to the face), Kimbo has a slight advantage over MJW especially since they have weight differences.

The man struggled to put away Dada 5000 while on nandralone. I wouldn't want to see him as a poorly conditioned 235 guy again a lean 220 guy, with what looks to be a body kicking game - especially not with Kimbo's lack of gas tank. Keep in mind Kimbo in his 30s only had wins over very old fighters from the 1990s.
 
Nah. Kyokushin is a very aggressive form of knock down karate, and you don't get a black belt in kyokushin without being a fighter. So even aside from that point fighting video, I'd be shocked of MJW hadn't had a considerable amount of karate fights. Also absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. I think on Sherdog we get too hung up about tape, especially with these older martial artists as though everyone in the 1980s had a video camera that they took to every fight they had to document it. Karate tournaments aren't all televised and recorded even today. Hell, Samart Payakaroon is the greatest striker of all time and we don't have even so much as a quarter of his fights on film.

Don't get me wrong, I actually respect Kimbo. It sounds backhanded but I am genuinely impressed that he became such a big name despite being pretty bad at the sport of MMA and fighting in general. I imagine MJW flattens Kimbo standing - if Kimbo went to the ground I could see him having enough rudimentary BJJ to have an advantage - but even then it's not really relevant to the discussion of who's advice would be more valuable - because I'm fairly sure Kimbo Slice could have taken half of the stand up forum in a fight but I wouldn't take his advice over say Sano, Sinister, j123 etc.




Not taking the piss here, but have you actually seen Kimbo fight? Because he was genuinely awful. If he learned those lessons earlier than MJW (despite MJW being considerably older and training from younger) this doesn't come across in his fights, considering he would leap in with wild hooks... which somehow still managed to be arm punches.

That's like saying Bruce Lee would have beat fighter X without seeing any evidence of him performing. I think MJW would excel in the disciplines that he trained in but in a regular fight Kimbo would win because he is proven and MJW is not. We can see that he is agile and has a good understanding of form, but can he apply it in that situation we don't know we can only guess. I've personally seen a guy who spent 4 or so years training in kickboxing and in great shape get his ass kicked by a roof tiler who spent most of his weekends getting drunk with friends and getting into fights. The guy who trained was in competitions as well but still lost and looked like he wasn't confident either. So based on that I again lean towards Kimbo in a hypothetical match I can understand if you don't agree with that and yes I know there are too many variables in a street fight and can't be compared to a sanctioned bout
 
That's like saying Bruce Lee would have beat fighter X without seeing any evidence of him performing. I think MJW would excel in the disciplines that he trained in but in a regular fight Kimbo would win because he is proven and MJW is not. We can see that he is agile and has a good understanding of form, but can he apply it in that situation we don't know we can only guess. I've personally seen a guy who spent 4 or so years training in kickboxing and in great shape get his ass kicked by a roof tiler who spent most of his weekends getting drunk with friends and getting into fights. The guy who trained was in competitions as well but still lost and looked like he wasn't confident either. So based on that I again lean towards Kimbo in a hypothetical match I can understand if you don't agree with that and yes I know there are too many variables in a street fight and can't be compared to a sanctioned bout

In fairness, I am not the one who began the hypotheticals. :p

Either way, you don't place a bet on a fighter to win, without seeing anything of the other guy.
 
The kids that de railed this thread know nothing about Kyokushin or any other type of FC other than what's been spoon fed to them through the UFC.

It's sad that the idea a guy from a good FC Kyokushin school with 4 Dans(just an example) let alone a whole circuit of competitions and years fighting in them would be less legit experience than a backyard brawler who taped himself fighting cans and lost a bunch of UFC fights.

But sadly that's what the Gracie's did with the UFC and exploiting America's martial arts ignorance and obsession with promotion over substance!

Over in the Grappling forum BJJ guys still think they're going to smoke a seasoned full contact kickboxer that's been training BJJ for a while with good take down defense and knowledge of their tactics. The newly minted 10th Planet Brown Belt breaks a sweat showing me no Gi takedowns and has zero standing cardio!

It's still kinda jarring to see positive threads about TKD after Rogan and so many others trashed it for so long as "unpractical".

We see the same years old ignorance from these goofballs!
 
because I'm fairly sure Kimbo Slice could have taken half of the stand up forum in a fight..

Probably more, LOL.. The fact that he didn't go straight to the top in MMA and that he wasnt well rounded shouldn't give you a false perception of his physical means.
 
I wouldn't bet on it... Kimbo experienced actual pro fights,in MMA and boxing.

He was fighting bin men in boxing and geriatrics in MMA.

The kids that de railed this thread know nothing about Kyokushin or any other type of FC other than what's been spoon fed to them through the UFC.

It's sad that the idea a guy from a good FC Kyokushin school with 4 Dans(just an example) let alone a whole circuit of competitions and years fighting in them would be less legit experience than a backyard brawler who taped himself fighting cans and lost a bunch of UFC fights.

But sadly that's what the Gracie's did with the UFC and exploiting America's martial arts ignorance and obsession with promotion over substance!

Over in the Grappling forum BJJ guys still think they're going to smoke a seasoned full contact kickboxer that's been training BJJ for a while with good take down defense and knowledge of their tactics. The newly minted 10th Planet Brown Belt breaks a sweat showing me no Gi takedowns and has zero standing cardio!

It's still kinda jarring to see positive threads about TKD after Rogan and so many others trashed it for so long as "unpractical".

We see the same years old ignorance from these goofballs!

I usually don't agree with you, but you have summed it up in a nutshell. Because he fought and lost in the UFC, guys are conflating Kimbo to be some fighter to really be reckoned with. I've met kyokushin and TKD guys with no pro record who sparred MMA fighters and gave them fits.
 
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