Mid-air Collusion (Mueller Thread v. 19)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Quipling

classical conservative
@Silver
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
10,949
Reaction score
1,331
Mod note from previous thread: Please post in here with regards to the subject at hand. Any general chat can go in the WR OT thread.

Just to be clear, going forward, these type of posts also count of derailing:
1. Talking about how the thread is derailed/ how mods should handle a situation (report and continue on topic discussions)
2. Joking about posters who are reply banned from the thread
3. Posts with only flaming that do not have any other information about the topic
4. A reply to any of the above


Stop doing these. This isn't some game of getting each other reply bans and infractions. Just stay on topic, report when needed. We have the WR OT for posts like the ones above but they have no place in a normal thread.


Creating a new thread because the old one is huge, and there are some new developments

New Big Updates:
  • Trump admits that the Trump Tower meeting was about receiving campaign assistance from the Russian government. Claims he didn't know about it, though
  • Jr. admits to attempting to obtain campaign dirt through the meeting. Indicates he may have illicitly accessed an opposition website
  • Giuliani divulges the existence of a second Trump Tower meeting
  • Manafort trial is ongoing.

Major events so far:
  • Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and transition committee member has been indicted arising from misconduct reaching into 2017 related to payments received through 2014 from the pro-russia faction of Ukraine's pre-war government. He has pleaded not guilty. The indictment has since been expanded by 13 claims. Manafort's bond has been revoked because of witness tampering. His countersuit has been dismissed, as has his claim that Mueller's appointment violated Article II.
  • Gates has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiring (with Manafort) to commiting tax fraud, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the FBI
  • George Papadopolous pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators in 2017 about activities occuring 2016-17. Admits to meeting with various Russian officials regarding setting up meetings and "dirt" on Hillary while acting on behalf of the Trump campaign, something he previously denied.
  • Mike Flynn, Trump's National Security Advisor, has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI with respect to several meetings that he had with the Russian ambassador. Flynn was allegedly involved in other business involving Turkey, but has not yet been charged with respect to that behavior.
  • 13 Russian indictment for activity starting in 2014 and continuing through 2017. A US citizen pleaded guilty for agreeing to help them.
  • An attorney linked to Manafort, Gates, and a Russian oligarch has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
  • Yohai, Manafort's former son-in-law has agreed to cooperate with the Justice Department
  • Daniels's lawsuit has somehow, insanely, gotten linked up to the Mueller investigation thanks to alleged wrongdoing and influence-peddling by Michael Cohen
  • Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for conspiracy against the United States and aggravated identity theft. The indictment should be mandatory reading.
Dumb Talking Points:
"Nothing will come of this."
Several things have already come of this.

this is it
?????

But Trump has been hard on the russians!
Not really. And, even if this were true, that is irrelevant to events predating his inauguration.

They were just shitposting/trolling lol
Wrong. Read the indictment.

The FBI is wasting money on this, but dropping the ball on other things?
The office of special counsel is not part of the FBI, though they are working with the FBI. The FBI has literally thousands of employees and lots of different offices and departments.

Entrapment
Entrapment is only a defense to being charged with the crimes you were "entrapped" into committing. It is not a defense against being charged with other crimes.

Everybody is corrupt reeeeeee
This is just a bad argument.

Previous thread

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...r-12-indictments-mueller-thread-v-18.3797951/
 
C-SPAN:

Josh Barro vs. Alan Dershowitz

Obviously Barro is in over his head here, but credit to him for putting up a good fight. Covers most of the topics in the OP plus some of the important constitutional issues. Much higher-level discussion than anything you'll get from CNN/MSNBC/FOX.

 
the law and order president
 
Stay on topic.
 
https://www.usnews.com/news/top-new...e-gates-completes-testimony-in-manafort-trial

Gates's testimony is over. His testimony started Monday, August 6, and went on for the better part of two days.

Highlights:
Gates extensively described the business in Ukraine

Gates and Manafort discussed supporting Steven Calk as sec army after Calk "loaned" Manafort money

Gates testified about helping Manafort avoid taxes by reporting income as loans, not reporting foreign a counts, or routing it through shell companies. Gates helped Manafort file false tax returns and create false loans. He also helped Manafort convert pdfs to word docs.

Gates cheated Manafort out of several hundred thousand dollars


Gates told the government, as part of the plea, about several other crimes not listed in the indictment


Gates admitted to lying to the feds. He also admitted to having an affair.
 
I posted this earlier in the last thread just before it closed. Hope that's not a violation.


So, just for fun, I decided to string together the many Trump stances on Russian election interference in one quote.

"It could be Russia but it could also be China, it could be lots of other people, it could also be someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. Maybe there is no hacking, they always blame Russia, and they blame Russia because they think they're trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know nothing about Russia. I have no idea if it's Russia, or China or somebody, it could be somebody sitting in a bed some place, they have no idea.

As far as hacking, I think it was Russia, but I think we also get hacked by other countries, other people. Knowing something about hacking, if you don't catch the hacker in the act, okay it's very hard to say who did the hacking. I think it was Russia, and I think it could've been other people, and other countries, could've been a lot of different people interfered.

I accept our Intelligence community's conclusion that Russia's meddling in the 2016 elections took place, could be other people also. Uh, there's a lot of people out there."

... makes perfect sense.
 
the law and order president

What sort of conclusion do you draw from this, anyone who argues for the propriety of the people surrounding the POTUS?

If it's unimportant because it's underlings, what does that say about Trump's judgement?

Remember, this question is about Trump, not anyone else.
 
What sort of conclusion do you draw from this, anyone who argues for the propriety of the people surrounding the POTUS?

If it's unimportant because it's underlings, what does that say about Trump's judgement?

Remember, this question is about Trump, not anyone else.

I’ll take a stab at this. The Trump companies do not have a compliance department. If they did, due diligence would had been performed on every person prior to being associated with the campaign. Therefore, it is Trumps compliance department who is at fault here.
 
Reagan, Harding, Grant and Nixon, they are considered to have the most corrupt administrations by a majority of historians. Grant usually ranks number 1.

We will see after Trumps done, if he can crack the Mt Rushmore of most corrupt Presidential administrations.
Grant's administration is the Gold Standard for corruption, unlike Trump, Grant was a decent dude, but Grants problem was his loyalty to his bad appointments.
 
Reagan, Harding, Grant and Nixon, they are considered to have the most corrupt administrations by a majority of historians. Grant usually ranks number 1.

We will see after Trumps done, if he can crack the Mt Rushmore of most corrupt Presidential administrations.
Grant's administration is the Gold Standard for corruption, unlike Trump, Grant was a decent dude, but Grants problem was his loyalty to his bad appointments.
Grant was a terrible politician. Great general, not cut out for politics.
 
Grant was a terrible politician. Great general, not cut out for politics.

I wouldn't even go that far.

Grant spent most of the war getting his ass kicked while having every advantage possible that an army could hope for.

If not for the insurmountable material and manpower advantage the North had we'd be speaking with a Southern twang.

The Union fucking sucked.
 
Grant was a terrible politician. Great general, not cut out for politics.
I would disagree, about being a great general, better than average would be my opinion. The south had way better Generals.
Once Stonewall Jackson, died, it was just a matter of time. Lee never had a second that could institute his plans, which was moving fast, his other 2nds lacked the killer instinct, balls and ability to rally their men, like Jackson. Jackson was a horrible racist, but a hell of a general.
As someone who loves history, Jackson and Hannibal are my two favorite generals, which is ironic, one is a black guy and the other is a horrible racist.
Grant was like a HW with a great chin and one punch KO power. He had better resources, equipment, and more manpower. He basically just walked down the south, eating punches the whole way. He knew eventually he would land the haymaker, and it would all be over. His use of artillery was brilliant though, will give him credit for that.

Since you are a MOD, rolling in dat Dana White money, you might want to move my post to the lounge, since its way off topic or let it stay. Either way I don't mind.
 
I would disagree, about being a great general, better than average would be my opinion. The south had way better Generals.
Once Stonewall Jackson, died, it was just a matter of time. Lee never had a second that could institute his plans, which was moving fast, his other 2nds lacked the killer instinct, balls and ability to rally their men, like Jackson. Jackson was a horrible racist, but a hell of a general.
As someone who loves history, Jackson and Hannibal are my two favorite generals, which is ironic, one is a black guy and the other is a horrible racist.
Grant was like a HW with a great chin and one punch KO power. He had better resources, equipment, and more manpower. He basically just walked down the south, eating punches the whole way. He knew eventually he would land the haymaker, and it would all be over. His use of artillery was brilliant though, will give him credit for that.

Since you are a MOD, rolling in dat Dana White money, you might want to move my post to the lounge, since its way off topic or let it stay. Either way I don't mind.

Longstreet was better than Lee and Jackson.
 
why would the president need to introduce himself to Putin via letter? Why is rand Paul delivering it? Why is rand Paul even in Russia?
 
why would the president need to introduce himself to Putin via letter? Why is rand Paul delivering it? Why is rand Paul even in Russia?

Rand was asking Putin for some tea to give to his neighbor.
 
why would the president need to introduce himself to Putin via letter? Why is rand Paul delivering it? Why is rand Paul even in Russia?


Did Rand curtsy to Putin when he delivered the letter like Trump did to the Saudis?
 
I have nothing to add to the topic except for how I constantly smile at the witty headlines in thread after thread on this subject!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top