Miguel Torres beat Mighty Mouse at UFC 130

JayE said:
I know this is all just a pretense to discredit Johnson's entire body of work, but you have two decisions where you can legitimately complain in his entire career and you're making it out to be something egregious.

The McCall fight was a pretty clear-cut draw. Rounds 1 and 2 couldn't really go to McCall and round 3 was a 10-8, making it a draw. He should have gotten the extra round, but he didn't. You can complain about the extra round not happening, but the draw was the only reasonable score in that fight. The first Benavidez fight and the first Dodson fight were both competitive, but very few had either fight for Benavidez or Dodson, respectively (2 of 10 media outlets had the fight for Benavidez, and 0 of 11 had the fight for Dodson). Those weren't drawish fights; they were close but clear wins for Johnson.
Click to expand...
Why are you shilling for MM? Read my post. I compared him with Bendo with regard to highly questionable decisions. And a lot of the media had Bendo winning too, but not the fans.

And regarding the McCall fight. MM lost the last two rounds. It wasn't a draw. 29-27 was the correct score.

One of the top 5 worst decisions in the UFC. Was horrific. Literally ended McCall's career.
 
Last edited:
Phisher said:
Not really considering that he cleanly beat McCall like three months later.

The only people who thought that was MM's defining fight were the "Creepy shoulda been champ" crowd that used to incessantly post hate threads about MM here in 2012 and 2013. After McCall fell off badly, and it was clear that he would never even get to a trilogy fight with Johnson much less have a chance to beat him, people stopped talking about it.

Were you one of those UC die hards under a different username a few years back?
Click to expand...
Nope. Just a fight fan. I lump MM with Bendo because both got the benefit of the doubt regarding decisions while mostly counter punching.

Counter punching is easier to implement than Boxer-Puncher.

And McCall won their first fight. I suggest you watch it again.
 
DataBreach said:
Why are you shilling for MM? Read my post. I compared him with Bendo with regard to highly questionable decisions. And a lot of the media had Hendo winning too, but not the fans.

And regarding the McCall fight. MM lost the last two rounds. It wasn't a draw. 29-26 was the correct score.

One of the top 5 worst decisions in the UFC. Was horrific. Literally ended McCall's career.
Click to expand...

Rounds 2 and 3 were both 10-8s? Fascinating. The fight should have been scored a draw and McCall should have gotten his extra round. He has had two genuinely questionable decisions in his career and he didn't even win one of them yet you think it's shocking and egregious. That's a little bizarre, man.
 
JayE said:
Rounds 2 and 3 were both 10-8s? Fascinating. The fight should have been scored a draw and McCall should have gotten his extra round. He has had two genuinely questionable decisions in his career and he didn't even win one of them yet you think it's shocking and egregious. That's a little bizarre, man.
Click to expand...
That was a typo. I noticed it after my post and fixed it.

Interesting how things shoulda gone after the fact with MM?

Maybe your right about McCall but again, I am talking about MM. Whatever good fortune McCall got has been blown to smithereens.

Show me one instance where MM has gotten the short end of the stick in the UFC.

I'll wait.
 
DataBreach said:
Nope. Just a fight fan. I lump MM with Bendo because both got the benefit of the doubt regarding decisions while mostly counter punching.

Counter punching is easier to implement than Boxer-Puncher.
Click to expand...


Johnson has had clear, decisive victories in 10 of his 12 championship fights, and most people think that he won the other two.

The general consensus on Henderson's title run is that he probably should have lost every fight except for the defense against Nate Diaz.

Sorry dude, but this isn't a rational take.

Either you've got an agenda or you're trolling.
 
Phisher said:
Johnson has had clear, decisive victories in 10 of his 12 championship fights, and most people think that he won the other two.

The general consensus on Henderson's title run is that he probably should have lost every fight except for the defense against Nate Diaz.

Sorry dude, but this isn't a rational take.

Either you've got an agenda or you're trolling.
Click to expand...
Again, I'm not talking about the last few years.

From May 2011 to January 2013 Mouse got 4 questionable decisions, one loss to Cruz and a win over McCall.

This was how MM's reign began at 125.

His reign didn't start on a solid foundation. It was built on sand.
 
Such an excellent fight between those two. I feel Miguel definitely won but the style and flow of the fight is something you just don't see much. It's a pleasure to watch.
 
DataBreach said:
That was a typo. I noticed it after my post and fixed it.

Interesting how things shoulda gone after the fact with MM?

Maybe your right about McCall but again, I am talking about MM. Whatever good fortune McCall got has been blown to smithereens.

Show me one instance where MM has gotten the short end of the stick in the UFC.

I'll wait.
Click to expand...

There were only two instances which were genuinely controversial. I don't think he deserved the Torres decision, but I do think he earned a draw against McCall. He was lucky that the Australian commission fucked things up concerning the 4th round, but that's not his fault. He hasn't even had a close fight in more than half a decade, and he hasn't had a genuinely controversial decision work out in his favour (the McCall draw) in more than six years, so acting like him getting the benefit of the doubt from judges is some kind of trend or a reason to genuinely dislike him is just plain strange.
 
DataBreach said:
Again, I'm not talking about the last few years.

From May 2011 to January 2013 Mouse got 4 questionable decisions, one loss to Cruz and a win over McCall.

This was how MM's reign began at 125.

His reign didn't start on a solid foundation. It was built on sand.
Click to expand...


1. That it was four questionable decisions instead of two is your opinion not reality. Most people (media and fans) had him winning his first fights against Dodson and Benavidez, and they were not considered controversial.

http://mmadecisions.com/decision/3963/Demetrious-Johnson-vs-John-Dodson

aP1lYlA.png


http://mmadecisions.com/decision/3963/Demetrious-Johnson-vs-John-Dodson

LYunWXs.png



2. You refer to the McCall fight as if Johnson advanced to the championship match against Benavidez on a questionable decision. He clearly beat McCall in the rematch three months after the original fight.

3. He knocked out Benavidez in their rematch and beat Dodson from pillar to post for 25 minutes in their second fight. Those fights eliminated any doubt that he was the best guy in the division.

4. Who the fuck cares about his early career?

You do know that he wasn't training full time and was spending more time driving a forklift than he was in the gym up until late 2011, right?

When he started training like a pro fighter, he became a dominant champion. So all of this harping about his early career is asinine.
 
JayE said:
There were only two instances which were genuinely controversial. I don't think he deserved the Torres decision, but I do think he earned a draw against McCall. He was lucky that the Australian commission fucked things up concerning the 4th round, but that's not his fault. He hasn't even had a close fight in more than half a decade, and he hasn't had a genuinely controversial decision work out in his favour (the McCall draw) in more than six years, so acting like him getting the benefit of the doubt from judges is some kind of trend or a reason to genuinely dislike him is just plain strange.
Click to expand...
Read my post #127 above yours. Kind of answers your question.
 
DataBreach said:
Read my post #127 above yours. Kind of answers your question.
Click to expand...

Well, the Torres fight is wholly irrelevant to his run at FlyW, so we can scratch that off the list if this is all about Johnson's reign being "built on sand." Neither the Benavidez nor the Dodson fights were controversial in either my eyes, or the eyes of most involved in following or covering MMA, so they're off the list.

Basically, then, all of your complaints come back to the first McCall fight where McCall should have gotten an extra round. That's why you don't like Johnson and that's why his whole reign is "built on sand." Let's ignore the fact that he rematched McCall a few months later and soundly beat him and then legitimately started a dominant reign which has lasted the better part of a decade; the first McCall fight was so egregious that the rest of his career can't be taken completely seriously. That's what I got from that post, anyway.
 
Phisher said:
1. That it was four questionable decisions instead of two is your opinion not reality. Most people (media and fans) had him winning his first fights against Dodson and Benavidez, and they were not considered controversial.

http://mmadecisions.com/decision/3963/Demetrious-Johnson-vs-John-Dodson

aP1lYlA.png


http://mmadecisions.com/decision/3963/Demetrious-Johnson-vs-John-Dodson

LYunWXs.png



2. You refer to the McCall fight as if Johnson advanced to the championship match against Benavidez on a questionable decision. He clearly beat McCall in the rematch three months after the original fight.

3. He knocked out Benavidez in their rematch and beat Dodson from pillar to post for 25 minutes in their second fight. Those fights eliminated any doubt that he was the best guy in the division.

4. Who the fuck cares about his early career?

You do know that he wasn't training full time and was spending more time driving a forklift than he was in the gym up until late 2011, right?

When he started training like a pro fighter, he became a dominant champion. So all of this harping about his early career is asinine.
Click to expand...
I have MM (3-3) vs. McCall, Benavidez and Dodson.

They each won their first fight against him and had to rematch a guy they think they beat the first time. So they went into their second fight believing they needed the finish just to win. That's a valid component that you're not addressing. MM has never been finished. The pressure to rematch a guy you thought you beat the first time (yet lost the decision) and now you fear the decision so you must finish a durable counter puncher whose never been finished!

No wonder the rematches weren't close.

Those fights were lost in the locker rooms.
 
JayE said:
Well, the Torres fight is wholly irrelevant to his run at FlyW, so we can scratch that off the list if this is all about Johnson's reign being "built on sand." Neither the Benavidez nor the Dodson fights were controversial in either my eyes, or the eyes of most involved in following or covering MMA, so they're off the list.

Basically, then, all of your complaints come back to the first McCall fight where McCall should have gotten an extra round. That's why you don't like Johnson and that's why his whole reign is "built on sand." Let's ignore the fact that he rematched McCall a few months later and soundly beat him and then legitimately started a dominant reign which has lasted the better part of a decade; the first McCall fight was so egregious that the rest of his career can't be taken completely seriously. That's what I got from that post, anyway.
Click to expand...
Show me proof both Benavidez and Dodson both think they lost the first fight.

They aren't off any list. I have MM (3-3) vs. McCall, Benavidez and Dodson.
 
DataBreach said:
I have MM (3-3) vs. McCall, Benavidez and Dodson.

They each won their first fight against him and had to rematch a guy they think they beat the first time. So they went into their second fight believing they needed the finish just to win. That's a valid component that you're not addressing. MM has never been finished. The pressure to rematch a guy you thought you beat the first time (yet lost the decision) and now you fear the decision so you must finish a durable counter puncher whose never been finished!

No wonder the rematches weren't close.

Those fights were lost in the locker rooms.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't just stop there. His controversial decision wins have made it impossible for any of his opponents to ever think they have a chance to win a decision, so basically all of his subsequent opponents have "lost in the locker rooms." None of his defenses are really legitimate when you think about it.
 
DataBreach said:
Show me proof both Benavidez and Dodson both think they lost the first fight.

They aren't off any list. I have MM (3-3) vs. McCall, Benavidez and Dodson.
Click to expand...

lol, awesome. I think we're done here, man.
 
JayE said:
I wouldn't just stop there. His controversial decision wins have made it impossible for any of his opponents to ever think they have a chance to win a decision, so basically all of his subsequent opponents have "lost in the locker rooms." None of his defenses are really legitimate when you think about it.
Click to expand...
Glad you agree.
 
I thought it was a clear 1-1 going into the 3rd, and that DJ won the very close 3rd at the last second.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,991
Messages
55,459,770
Members
174,787
Latest member
Freddie556

Share this page

Back
Top