more students than soldiers killed in 2018

Ts is just a puzzy who can't handle freedumb.
 
This is an acceptable amount of child brains splattered by bullets in schools. We shouldn't do anything about it, and we should also attack people who want to do something about it.

I think everyone agrees we need to do something about kids shooting up schools. Just some people don't agree that gun control is the way to do it. Personally I think it's more of a mental heath issue.
 
I've read that violence in the wild west is an overblown myth. If you look at the numbers, there wasn't a lot of people getting murdered.

In modern America, there are 100 people killed every day with guns and a mass shooting every day. That's pretty significant when you start finding comparable situations around the world.
I agree that it is significant. When you say "killed", are you talking about all gun deaths or gun homicides? Because while gun murders are quite high, there are not 100 every day. It makes no sense at all to me to group suicides and homicides (and usually justified defensive shootings are also included) as if they were a coherent category. The suicide rate is also high imo, but it isn't a related phenomenon to the high murder rate from what I can see.
 
I agree that it is significant. When you say "killed", are you talking about all gun deaths or gun homicides? Because while gun murders are quite high, there are not 100 every day. It makes no sense at all to me to group suicides and homicides (and usually justified defensive shootings are also included) as if they were a coherent category. The suicide rate is also high imo, but it isn't a related phenomenon to the high murder rate from what I can see.

Don't forget actual shootings are more than double gun deaths.

Whether you group suicides and homicides into one category or not doesn't matter: both sets of accounting are very unflattering when compared to countries around the world.
 
When I saw that statistic on T.V. today, I had to rewind it about four times to make sure, because I couldn't believe my freaking ears.

This is a new depth of sadness in America.
 
Don't forget actual shootings are more than double gun deaths.

Whether you group suicides and homicides into one category or not doesn't matter: both sets of accounting are very unflattering when compared to countries around the world.
Yes, I understand that neither is flattering, but the only reason to lump them together is to make them even more unflattering. They are clearly distinct phenomena.
 
Yes, I understand that neither is flattering, but the only reason to lump them together is to make them even more unflattering. They are clearly distinct phenomena.

That many gun suicides is appalling as well.

I don't know what stats the article used. All I can tell you is that both are terrifying and before reading the article I did not have the same perspective as after.
 
This is an acceptable amount of child brains splattered by bullets in schools. We shouldn't do anything about it, and we should also attack people who want to do something about it.

I don’t feel that any gun control legislation would do any amount of good, but I do feel that those of us saying it’s a people problem not a gun problem need to actually start putting forward some tangible proposals of what could potentially slow this alll too frequent occurrence not simply and only shut down gun control folks

The 50 million dollar school safety bill from Minnesota, where money could be used for not only things like metal detectors and new locks but also school counselors and social service workers in the school was at least a solid bipartisan attempt and effort in the right direction
 
That many gun suicides is appalling as well.

I don't know what stats the article used. All I can tell you is that both are terrifying and before reading the article I did not have the same perspective as after.

Is it the amount of suicides that is appalling to you or that they are by gun? I cannot discern which you mean by your phrasing.

I'm not trying to say guns aren't involved. They clearly are, and that seems to be a big part of the problem. But sometimes in all the politics surrounding guns, we lose sight of the fact that the real problems are murder and suicide. Guns are obviously a big part of that discussion, but they are not nearly the whole of it.
 
I don’t feel that any gun control legislation would do any amount of good, but I do feel that those of us saying it’s a people problem not a gun problem need to actually start putting forward some tangible proposals of what could potentially slow this alll too frequent occurrence not simply and only shut down gun control folks

The 50 million dollar school safety bill from Minnesota, where money could be used for not only things like metal detectors and new locks but also school counselors and social service workers in the school was at least a solid bipartisan attempt and effort in the right direction
I suppose we could turn every school into a military-style security area. Just put every kid into a siege mentality from the start and arm up even further. Seems like a good way to fuck up a generation of kids.

There aren't really any proposals to deal with people though. All lip service. Try to identify & take guns from troubled people (who are obviously dangerous but haven't made specific threats), and you're violating the super sacred right, and violating medical privacy. Try to limit access to the most lethal weapons, that's a hard no. Try to track guns cradle to grave, that's a no because they're coming for muh guns. Can't raise the buying age either- you see how people flip their shit on that. The only measure with bipartisan support is increased scrutiny in the background check, but nobody can seem to make a law stick, thanks to lobbying efforts both in congress and on the propaganda front.
 
I dont care if you are pro gun or anti gun, but this is fucking sad and we all know the next one will happen in a few weeks and there is nothing we can do about it.
:(
 
I suppose we could turn every school into a military-style security area. Just put every kid into a siege mentality from the start and arm up even further. Seems like a good way to fuck up a generation of kids.

There aren't really any proposals to deal with people though. All lip service. Try to identify & take guns from troubled people (who are obviously dangerous but haven't made specific threats), and you're violating the super sacred right, and violating medical privacy. Try to limit access to the most lethal weapons, that's a hard no. Try to track guns cradle to grave, that's a no because they're coming for muh guns. Can't raise the buying age either- you see how people flip their shit on that. The only measure with bipartisan support is increased scrutiny in the background check, but nobody can seem to make a law stick, thanks to lobbying efforts both in congress and on the propaganda front.

To your first point, I was trying to highlight and am more pleased that the funds can go to more school counselors and social workers in the school rather than the metal detectors. Metal detectors don’t stop anything except someone trying to sneak something in, kid with a gun shows up and starts shooting there it doesn’t matter at all if they “beep” as he walks past the two dead bodies. Getting more people in the schools to help connect to the kids, give them someone to talk to and work on coping mechanisms before the problems reach such a critical breaking point, and identify those too far lost who need to be removed is why I see the Minnesota bill as a good step to dealing closer to the root problem than just the tool. That’s not lip service, it’s been passed by a Republican house and Dem Governor so a good sign of working together and that money is currently available for districts to use

With the gun tho, this last guy was 17 (couldn’t buy a gun anyway) using a shotgun (which no assault weapon ban ever mentions) that has been sawed off (illegal modification at home) so really, what possible gun law could have ever stopped this as our current batch should have and didn’t? Any of the gun laws proposed only make it more difficult for the evil law abiding gun owners to acquire one for hunting or self defense; while doing virtually nothing to stop a person with evil in their heart from easily finding a way to still commit their atrocity
 
You know how when someone makes an argument about the Ills of society only for someone else to diminish it by citing the same stats? That's annoying right?

50 million students, 30 dead, no epidemic.

I've heard this argument applied to illegal aliens, terrorism, etc.

Annoying right?
racist imho
 
To your first point, I was trying to highlight and am more pleased that the funds can go to more school counselors and social workers in the school rather than the metal detectors. Metal detectors don’t stop anything except someone trying to sneak something in, kid with a gun shows up and starts shooting there it doesn’t matter at all if they “beep” as he walks past the two dead bodies. Getting more people in the schools to help connect to the kids, give them someone to talk to and work on coping mechanisms before the problems reach such a critical breaking point, and identify those too far lost who need to be removed is why I see the Minnesota bill as a good step to dealing closer to the root problem than just the tool. That’s not lip service, it’s been passed by a Republican house and Dem Governor so a good sign of working together and that money is currently available for districts to use

With the gun tho, this last guy was 17 (couldn’t buy a gun anyway) using a shotgun (which no assault weapon ban ever mentions) that has been sawed off (illegal modification at home) so really, what possible gun law could have ever stopped this as our current batch should have and didn’t? Any of the gun laws proposed only make it more difficult for the evil law abiding gun owners to acquire one for hunting or self defense; while doing virtually nothing to stop a person with evil in their heart from easily finding a way to still commit their atrocity
You say no gun laws could stop these, yet most of the time, the kids showed signs of imminent violence. The way to take those guns away is to make it really easy for law enforcement to do it. Arrange for emergency interventions, take the guns. Evaluate the kid and the home, make it take a while, offer services in the meantime. And yet nobody will touch that kind of law with a robot in a radiation suit.

The stuff about having more mental health resources available is good. We need to raise taxes to provide it though. That will not happen across the country with a Republican government.
 
That many gun suicides is appalling as well.

I don't know what stats the article used. All I can tell you is that both are terrifying and before reading the article I did not have the same perspective as after.

Guns are killing themselves?

How is that even possible?

I am going to go and check on all of my guns. Do a quick check. You know - make sure they are all feeling okay. That they aren't going to go out and hurt someone or...hurt themselves.
 
We better do something, in the sense of the cliche, not anything balanced or thoughtful or right.

Probably something extreme and tiresome depending on whichever group thinks it has a permanent majority.
 
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/thi...an-students-than-us-military-members-1.528035



Just some numbers to put things in perspective. The war inside America is killing more Americans than its external war. I remember reading once that if any third world nation had as many citizens killed each day as America does (comparison adjusted for population size) the UN would declare it to be in a civil war.

Yeah, and I bet we kill more kids with drone bombs by a factor of 100.

How is that for perspective?
 
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