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Why would they have to be a green belt? Am I missing something?
Muay Thai to Karate
- Thread starter shincheckin
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Why would they have to be a green belt? Am I missing something?
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Just have a Kids Class called "Mini martial arts" and teach whatever the fuck. Have them hit pads, play around with kicks and maybe some basic grappling games.
But seriously, you are trying to get a belt in karate just so you can make money off Kids and their "usually idiot parents". It's not the most honorable business model.
But seriously, you are trying to get a belt in karate just so you can make money off Kids and their "usually idiot parents". It's not the most honorable business model.
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Always take the low road, its so much easier
-Confucius
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just using it as an example.
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Theres nothing dishonorable in earning a brown belt in BJJ and teaching BJJ to kids, but when someone wants to do it with karate all the karate guys get their pannies in a bunch. How many times do you see guys that are not black belts running BJJ classes? exactly.
I didnt call the parents idiots shinkoyu did, but I would agree that the type of parents that generally put their kids in karate are just a bunch of bitchy soccer moms for the most part. You see, karate tends to attract, wimpy, nerdy, unathletic kids, the type that get picked on in school. Well the kids are a "chip off the old block" so please believe their parents are an adult version of them. So if your gym isnt exactly 75 degrees and is 76, slut mom is gonna bitch about it. If you got guys cursing in the gym, slut mom is gonna bitch about it, if you got guys cutting weight spilling huge puddles of sweat all over the gym, slut mom is gonna bitch about it, this is why i agree with shinkoyu that the parents are idiots.
Im done arguing with a bunch of kids about this shit. half the people commenting on here are probably under 20 and have no idea about running a business.
dont worry, im not going to learn karate, earn a legitimate belt in karate (not black) and teach kids karate and "dishonor da famiree" Im going to take your guys advance and hire some legit black belts to teach my classes. I actually contacted these two black belts and they have accepted the position.
and yes basically its like, oh hey your kids too much of puss for MT, great, we got karate for him.
lastly this thread is over, its gone to shit, karate is over, now its all about some bullshit "honor" fraud nonsense when as I have stated several times, that what I am doing, there is no fraud in it at all.
the real fraud is here:
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I can understand where @shinkyoku is coming from.
I don’t think there is an issue if you want to teach kids karate classes but it would require you having to put considerable time to reach at least a black belt level.
If you put time in and reach green belt (like in your example) - you’re cup is half full - you’ll only know about half of the syllabus (of most Karate styles).
The question is whether that’s acceptable to you (and if it is I'd say you interest in Karate is superficial). Would you be ok with teaching MT if you only had half of the techniques/syllabus down and would you more importantly be able to teach to a high standard or do you think it might be a disservice to those you’re teaching? You have to remember that even though MT and Karate share similarities they are also completely different martial arts with different syllabuses & techniques.
There’s also the question of whether you’d be able to adequately teach the techniques in Karate that aren’t shared with MT like the katas/forms, open hand blocks/strikes, stances, some kicking techniques etc even if you had a green belt. You might be perfectly fine with the techniques that cross over as you can rely on your MT experience. But what about things that are completely new - like all the intricacies of the stances, stance transitioning, the open hand strikes/blocks, kata/forms etc - you’ll only have a green belts level of experience to rely on and if I’m being honest that's not enough.
I think your decision shouldn't be motivated by monetary value (that's what it looks like otherwise you'd just put the time in) - but by how well you'll be able to teach Karate to kids. At orange or green belt - imho you just simply don't have enough experience/knowledge of the system to teach effectively. Sure you could teach - but would you be teaching Karate well? Most likely not. You have to decide if that's acceptable to you. Plus I think if you teach Karate with your cup half full - it's a disservice to the art and a disservice to the effort/sacrifices karateka have made to get the art where it is today.
I'd say to teach any sort of Karate competently you'd need training to at least brown belt at a minimum - black belt ideally. That's about 3 to 5 years of consistent training.
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That's a very bad example. A brown belt in BJJ has usually trained for a minimum of 5 to 7 years (sometimes more than that). The equivalent time spent in Karate would mean you have to be black belt.
Is it really getting your panties in a bunch - if someone doesn't want to put in the amount of time required to instruct?
You either put in the time if you genuinely have an interest in Karate & want to teach it - or you don't & look for shortcuts.
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this is the most level headed post on this thread so far. I see your points and agree with many of them.
- I think your decision shouldn't be motivated by monetary value (that's what it looks like otherwise you'd just put the time in)
The thing is im 35 years old, I simply do not have the time to pursue a black belt everyone needs to undestand this, as its a major point in my argument. 5 yrs of consistant training, 10 year of part time training to get a black belt. This is something that may be difficult for the younger members to understand. as we get older, we get more and more responsibilites, less and less free time, and life pretty much just becomes work.
I also agree with your "cup half full" statement. but theres another point to my argument that it seems many people are missing. The plan is to only teach the very basics of karate, there is no plan to advance the kids past my belt level. When they reach my belt level, they will transition into MT. I am not going to earn a "orange" belt, and start pumping out black belts. Your cup half full statement would be alot more valid if I was planning on taking the kids anywhere beyond basic
a way to look at it would be this. You have MT coach who had a few pro fights in the US. He coaches his guys to his level, once they have reached that level, he sends them out to thailand for training to get to a level beyond his.
So it would be the same with Karate, teach them the very basics, as much as I know and have learned, get them up to my belt level, and then transition them into MT, the more effective martial art.
-imho you just simply don't have enough experience/knowledge of the system to teach effectively.
IMO opinion a orange belt is qualified to teach the basics to 5 yr olds. Just as a guy who has trained MT but never fought can teach the basics of MT to a 5 yr old. Can he teach the basics effectively? yes. Can he create a lumpinee champ/black belt.......no. but the plan/goal is to only teach basics, not create black belts/champs.
When you see 5 yr old black belts, you cant help but think a 35 yr old man wouldnt have much of a problem of getting a black belt.
The entire reason i asked this question was to see what I would have to learn, how long it would take me, and if my MT could help speed the process up. Sure I can watch a kyokushin video and copy those style of kicks, but theres more to it, like katas n all that shit, stuff I dont know and was asking her on the forum to learn about instead of what this thread has turned into.
Lastly my interest in karate is not superficial. I see many good things in it, specifically kyokushin, and have tried to incorporate that stuff into my training. I have done jumping kicks in my fights because of this.
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That's a very bad example. A brown belt in BJJ has usually trained for a minimum of 5 to 7 years (sometimes more than that). The equivalent time spent in Karate would mean you have to be black belt.
Is it really getting your panties in a bunch - if someone doesn't want to put in the amount of time required to instruct?
You either put in the time if you genuinely have an interest in Karate & want to teach it - or you don't & look for shortcuts.
cool, so this 9 yr old black belt has been training 5-7 years? got it!
if this is all it takes to get your black belt, i can get mine in 5 minutes in my living room right now.
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Might I suggest taking your frustrations out on some nerdy karate kids:
pretty funny, but again, the karate guys got their pannies in a bunch becuase at the end of the day we all know MT is the more effective martial art and you guys didnt like the way i down played karate.
Is it really getting your panties in a bunch - if someone doesn't want to put in the amount of time required to instruct?
No but you guys wanna act like it takes 5 yrs to learn what can be learned in 5 minutes. I have already answered my own question, outside of the basic kicks punches blocks which all stuff thats extremely easy to learn, you have to memorize some katas to advance in your belt. man this is so complex, ill study this kids kata video for the next 5 yrs and hope i have it learned by then.
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I know no such thing. What I DO KNOW is that it's the combatant that wins or loses a match, not the fighting art. And I know certain fighting styles adapt to certain sporting formats better or worse than others. There is no superior or inferior style. Only superior or inferior fighters.
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I dont even study karate, but your approach to martial arts is some of the dumbest I ever seen.
You were talking about earning an orange belt and watching a 5 minute Kata video. That is not enough to open a karate school. It would be like a BJJ blue belt or even White belt with his own school.
Also what is your gameplan for when the Kids become too old for the karate? Just say "now youre gonna find another dojo or start a whole New martial art". Thats not how you retain customers.
Your plan isnt well thought out, and you was already suggested a much better idea. Teach what you know, make a mini muay thai team and teach them something useful. Who knows, if youre a good teacher you might even attract more customers. You know, the basic of how businesses work.
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Just call it kid's self defense classes and leave it at that. Most parents won't even ask what art if you present it correctly and focus on talking about developing confidence, discipline, etc. If they ask, tell them you teach muay thai. They won't know the difference between karate and mt anyways unless they train themselves.
This is more about your sales and marketing ability than it is the name. You need the right image and presentation of your curriculum. Whether you call it kid's self defense, karate, or muay thai is less important.
This is more about your sales and marketing ability than it is the name. You need the right image and presentation of your curriculum. Whether you call it kid's self defense, karate, or muay thai is less important.
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I get where you are coming from but if you want to offer it as part of your business - wouldn't it make sense just to make the time to learn it while you get someone who has the necessary qualifications to teach for you. I mean if you wanted to teach carpentry but didn't have the time to spend to learn it properly - it wouldn't make sense to offer to teach it. Usually you need some sort of qualification to teach - and the qualifications for most styles require that you put a significant amount of time in.
Yes I understand that but we're trying to tell you that teaching even the very basics of karate at the belt level you've given as examples would be doing a disservice to the kids you're teaching. At those belt levels you simply don't have the knowledge or experience to be able to effectively teach anyone Karate (even up to that belt grading). Most karate styles as we've all told you require you to have a certain amount of training under your belt before you're allowed to teach - for that reason!
It's common sense - how well will you be able to teach someone something that you've only spent a year or two learning? Karate is not like Muay Thai - there is a lot more content in the syllabus to cover - they are also different arts I stress. When you get an orange belt (like in your example) - you might be ok teaching the stuff that crosses over with MT but you will not be ok teaching stuff that is new to you. This goes without me having to point it out.
This is confusing. What's the point of teaching them Karate if they are going to transition to MT anyway? Just to get kids into your school? I don't think you've thought it out well enough yet. You know there would be clashing between the Karate they've learnt & the MT you'd be teaching. They'd have to unlearn things that you taught them in Karate - like stances, footwork & the mechanisms of some techniques. It would be counter-productive imo.
No offence dude but you're not an orange belt or any belt grading in Karate as far as I know. You don't have any reference point or experience in Karate to be able to say that you think an orange belt is qualified to teach Karate. You know an orange belt in most karate styles is 9th kyu - that's like 3 to 6 months worth of training. People here including myself who have trained for years in Karate - are telling you that you more need time under your belt. We've already told you that at minimum you need shodan (1st degree BB) - and that's to teach kids to a decent standard regardless of whether they will only grade to orange whatever belt.
They are following a children curriculum. You are an adult who will be following an adults curriculum. It goes without saying that a child's curriculum is very different to an adults curriculum. The belts also don't transfer over - as kids who become adults usually have to pass all the adults gradings to get their black belt.
Again I feel like you're interest is surface level (superficial) - picking up techniques or seeing good things in Kyokushin doesn't translate to having an interest in the art. If someone told you they had an interest in MT but didn't have or want to make the time to learn the art at least to competency - would you say there interest was superficial or genuine interest?
People with a genuine interest will make the time even if they don't have it - to learn the art - regardless of how many sessions they are able to attend and regardless of how long it takes for them to get to competency - even then most will continue beyond that.
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Please try to learn that in 5 minutes and also attempt to teach it without looking at the video for help. Let me know how you do. Then multiple that by another 20 forms (minimum). That doesn't include stances, techniques, combinations, kumite or any other part of the syllabus. That's just one small part.
It's like me saying derp derp derp I can learn roundhouse kicks & elbows in 5 minutes after watching an MT video. Extremely easy to learn. Yet it takes years for someone to teach you how to throw a roundhouse or elbow properly.
Again please don't look at the kids syllabus thinking that's what you'll have to do. You're an adult - and will be following a syllabus for an adult. That means everything from stances, forms, techniques all the way to kumite.
No you're downplaying the effort that is required to teach karate to the necessary standard. Then trying to find shortcuts that don't require you spending the time you'd need to.
Yes MT is the more effective art for combat sports. But Karate is the more effective lifestyle (nor is it the only one). Quick results aren't always what they are cracked up to be. I've always said that Karate is like the turtle and MT the hare. Sure you might be more effective for a early portion of the race - but the turtle wins the race because he takes his time & paces himself.
It might mean that Karate is less effective for the short-term than MT, but if it means it's practitioners will train longer on average (or to old age) than someone training in MT - I'm all good.
