Muslim control vs gun control

Working great in France UK (2nd gens, muslim prison population, rotherham) lets bring in more.

Working great in Germany and Sweden lets bring in more.

Japan and Poland are missing out brah.
You know, they probably take a quick look at our homicide statistics and reach a similar conclusion... wake me up when Muslims commit 15,000 killings per year in Germany.

In fact, you’ve made such a ridiculously shitty comparison, this is for you:

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So I see alot of logically inconsistent people running around here.

For anyone arguing we need to ban guns, you are a brainwashed lemming if you aren't also calling on the banning of Muslim immigrants.

For anyone calling on banning Muslim immigrants, you are a brainwashed lemming if you aren't also calling for a ban on guns.

Either it makes sense to completely ban something if it will save 1 life, or it doesn't.

Some people like myself, tend to point out that a Muslim immigration ban, without Saudi Arabia on the list is stupid, just as many of us like to point out that calling for a gun ban, when you have ZERO ability to remove those guns from the population is also very stupid.

All I know, is that freedom isn't free.

People are going to die if you want to live in a free society. We don't ban religions or tools, because of how bad actors use them. We arrest, and try them for committing a crime.

Anyone telling you we can stop all crimes is a fucking snake oil salesman.

Ban Muslims? Ban guns?

I’d settle for just banning @Byron Carter and @HatchetHarry .

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You know, they probably take a quick look at our homicide statistics and reach a similar conclusion about our gun laws... wake me up when Muslims commit 15,000 killings per year in Germany.

In fact, you’ve made such a ridiculously shitty comparison, this is for you:

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Like I care if third worlders don't want to come to the U.S. because they fear guns. Like I give a shit, what strawman is this. Wake me up when letting in third world muslims like Germany and Sweden with an open border policy should be emulated by Poland and Japan.

Also I'd like to know your thoughts on the other points I made. . . prison population, rotherham and 2nd gen terrorists. All fake news and not a problem right?

If you want a reason why those countries don't want to import muslims maybe you should open your eyes. Also banning guns / banning muslims is not related and is a false equivalency. People wanting strict immigration especially from the third world is not "banning muslims" either, because that's the general immigration policy in some countries already.
 
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Like I care if third worlders don't want to come to the U.S. because they fear guns. Like I give a shit, what strawman is this. Wake me up when letting in third world muslims like Germany and Sweden with an open border policy should be emulated by Poland and Japan.

Also I'd like to know your thoughts on the other points I made. . . prison population, rotherham and 2nd gen terrorists. All fake news and not a problem right?

If you want a reason why those countries don't want to import muslims maybe you should open your eyes. Also banning guns / banning muslims is not related and is a false equivalency. People wanting strict immigration especially from the third world is not "banning muslims" either, because that's the general immigration policy in some countries already.

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

10 Countries with the Highest Crime Rates: 8 Christian majority, 2 Muslim majority

10 Countries with the Lowest Crime Rates: 4 Christian majority, 3 Muslim Majority, 1 Buddhist/Taoist majority, 1 Shinto majority, 1 No Religion majority

So when you say "3rd world countries", you don't mean in terms of crime, clearly. Should we look at economics, perhaps?
 
I was more confused by his idea that Sharia legalized rape and murder. I assumed he was being sarcastic. If Sharia was The Purge, there wouldn't be any Muslims on Earth, lol.
He's not entirely wrong there, it depends on your definition of rape. Basically, like in Christianity, a man has exclusive sexual access to his wife more or less on demand. Consent to marriage is taken as consent to sex so in other words its assumed prior to sexual encounters between husband and wife. Most modern democracies do not view consent within marriage this way.

EDIT: To be fair I'm far from an expert on sharia but I have done some reading on marriage law as it relates to the sharia. Take it with a grain of salt but I think that was more or less what he was getting at.
 
That seems like a problem of being religious states instead of secular states.

Of course before we learned that lesson, I'm sure we never had horendous, hideous state policies driven by bat shit crazy fundamentalists.(e-sarcasm)

I don't understand how you don't see that the problem with Islamic society isn't islam, it is that it is stuck in the 9th century.

The Islamic world will be just fine if it ever has a reformation.

Criticize Islam for being stuck in the dark ages. It has nothing to do with Islamic text.
The idea that the Muslim world is stuck in the 9th century is kind of a shallow, surface level view. Islam did have a reformation, one that was not entirely unlike the Protestant Reformation. Its called the Salafist Reformation. In fact the parallels between the Munster rebellion and the rise of ISIS are striking. Both rebellions were preceded by religious movements which emphasized individual interpretations and spread their message with new communications technology(printing press for Anabaptists, internet for ISIS), successfully attracting recruits from from a wider area than was possible before and both were apocalyptic and ostensibly sought world domination.
 
The idea that the Muslim world is stuck in the 9th century is kind of a shallow, surface level view. Islam did have a reformation, one that was not entirely unlike the Protestant Reformation. Its called the Salafist Reformation. In fact the parallels between the Munster rebellion and the rise of ISIS are striking. Both rebellions were preceded by religious movements which emphasized individual interpretations and spread their message with new communications technology(printing press for Anabaptists, internet for ISIS), successfully attracting recruits from from a wider area than was possible before and both were apocalyptic and ostensibly sought world domination.

It's missing the secular part. From God is great, to God made man, so man is great, is what enabled secularism, arts, and the scientific method to thrive.

I don't believe that kind of reformation has happened in islam.
 
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

10 Countries with the Highest Crime Rates: 8 Christian majority, 2 Muslim majority

10 Countries with the Lowest Crime Rates: 4 Christian majority, 3 Muslim Majority, 1 Buddhist/Taoist majority, 1 Shinto majority, 1 No Religion majority

So when you say "3rd world countries", you don't mean crime, clearly.
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I'm sure Israel will see this and change their minds.

Seems pretty non-conclusive especially when the third world has shitty governance with crime reporting. Sweden has crime and rape rates that don't support open borders, and it wasn't good even before the 2015 migrant crisis. Then you have the prison population of UK and France. Strict immigration doesn't mean banning anything unless you object to not wanting to import poverty and freeloaders with nothing to offer (no language skills or skills in general - getting paid below minimum wage for menial jobs is not a skill).
 
He's not entirely wrong there, it depends on your definition of rape. Basically, like in Christianity, a man has exclusive sexual access to his wife more or less on demand. Consent to marriage is taken as consent to sex so in other words its assumed prior to sexual encounters between husband and wife. Most modern democracies do not view consent within marriage this way.

EDIT: To be fair I'm far from an expert on sharia but I have done some reading on marriage law as it relates to the sharia. Take it with a grain of salt but I think that was more or less what he was getting at.

This is a reeeeeeeaallly recent change in the West. If he meant specifically marital rape, then he has a leg to stand on. But him paring it with legalization of murder--or "killings," whatever that means--made me suspect.
 
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I'm sure Israel will see this and change their minds.

Seems pretty non-conclusive especially when the third world has shitty governance with crime reporting. Sweden has crime and rape rates that don't support open borders, and it wasn't good even before the 2015 migrant crisis. Then you have the prison population of UK and France. Strict immigration doesn't mean banning anything unless you object to not wanting to import poverty and freeloaders with nothing to offer (no language skills or skills in general - getting paid below minimum wage for menial jobs is not a skill).

What definition of "third world" are you using? Again, clearly not crime. Are you measuring economically?
 
What definition of "third world" are you using? Again, clearly not crime. Are you measuring economically?
quote what your referencing? You listed crime stats, I replied to that and showed Sweden's crime and rape stats are not favorable to your argument. God knows what would happen if Israel went open borders lol.
 
It's missing the secular part. From God is great, to God made man, so man is great, is what enabled secularism, arts, and the scientific method to thrive.

I don't believe that kind of reformation has happened in islam.
Why would you assume that's necessarily going to happen? I'm not saying it can't or won't but at the same time I'm questioning the idea that Islam can and will follow the same path as a fundamentally different religion. Islam is inherently political in a way Christianity isn't. Jesus had the luxury of the Roman state in the background but Prophet Muhammad did not have that same luxury and so you see a part of his career is dedicated to proto-state building such as with his Constitution of Medina whereas Jesus was fortunate enough to be able to rend unto Caesar and not have to deal with that headache.
This is a reeeeeeeaallly recent change in the West. If he meant specifically marital rape, then he has a leg to stand on. But him paring it with legalization of murder--or "killings," whatever that means--made me suspect.
Yeah I agree he probably doesn't know what he's talking about based on some other things he said and its definitely important to point out the banning of marital rape is a relatively recent phenomenon in the West.

That said there's another way to interpret it. In Islam the age of consent is, uh, rather young to put it lightly so under most Western laws regarding the matter it would be statutory rape.
 
quote what your referencing? You listed crime stats, I replied to that and showed Sweden's crime and rape stats are not favorable to your argument. God knows what would happen if Israel went open borders lol.

What is my argument?

You said that you didn't care about "third worlders" talking shit about the US. I asked which "third worlders" and what are you basing it on. You have yet to respond.
 
What is my argument?

You said that you didn't care about "third worlders" talking shit about the US. I asked which "third worlders" and what are you basing it on. You have yet to respond.
Quote this. I recall replying to someone who strawmanned an argument about fear of guns. I don't know wtf you're talking about.
 
And here we go with the same inapt and inept analogies.

Is there a right to own guns? Yes.

Is there a right to immigrate to the United States? No.

Sorry you had to play this same stupid game.

The next thing the Threadstarter will tell us is that it's illogical for an American to have the right to free speech, but not a right to own child porn.
 
Quote this. I recall replying to someone who strawmanned an argument about fear of guns. I don't know wtf you're talking about.

Like I care if third worlders don't want to come to the U.S. because they fear guns. Like I give a shit, what strawman is this. Wake me up when letting in third world muslims like Germany and Sweden with an open border policy should be emulated by Poland and Japan.

Also I'd like to know your thoughts on the other points I made. . . prison population, rotherham and 2nd gen terrorists. All fake news and not a problem right?

If you want a reason why those countries don't want to import muslims maybe you should open your eyes. Also banning guns / banning muslims is not related and is a false equivalency. People wanting strict immigration especially from the third world is not "banning muslims" either, because that's the general immigration policy in some countries already.

It sounded like you only had a problem with "third world muslims," but then you seemed to broadened it to Muslims in general. I was asking what your metric was. Are all Muslims third world? Does "third worlders" include Christians? By "third world," do you mean poor countries or crime-ridden countries or something else?
 
Instead of all the arguing just listen to female ex-muslims.
 
It sounded like you only had a problem with "third world muslims," but then you seemed to broadened it to Muslims in general. I was asking what your metric was. Are all Muslims third world? Does "third worlders" include Christians? By "third world," do you mean poor countries or crime-ridden countries or something else?
If you want an immigration policy reflecting a definition, something like what Australia would deem third world and "high risk" countries for overstayers and illegals. Is the definition important? Third world is third world and muslims haven't exactly improved their image with all the terrorism. I'm sure you think all concerns are not justified or are racist though, precisely the thought process which let Rotherham get out of hand.
 
Islam is not compatible with liberty. I'm not for just banning Islam from.the USA, but the world. However that goal is achieved is fine by me.

Damn son. We really arent what you think we are. Im confident you'd change your mind if you just took some time to get to know some of us.
 
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