Muslim Refugees Taught To Lie About Being Christian By NGOs

I’ve said it before but it’s worth repeating. I’ve lived in both the East and the West and I’ve known countless women either in families, work colleagues or bosses etc. None of them were oppressed, in fact most of them were the bosses of their house, so the caricature some of you have of Muslim women is almost funny. That’s not to say oppression doesn’t occur, it happens everywhere. But id love to see the reaction of all the Muslim women I know when I tell them some random white knight sherdogger wants to fly down and rescue her lmao

It's complete insanity. One of my best friends is a Muslim woman who has lived pretty much her whole life in the ME. She's never worn hijab or any head covering, she goes out to bars and clubs, curses like a sailor, and is a devout Muslim, prays five times a day, doesn't drink, etc. The guys in this thread have no clue and they know it, which is why @uppercutbus has decided to cower from debate and hide behind likes. They've never been to the region, they've never studied the religion, they don't have any family or friends who are Muslims, but they feel the need to go on martial arts message boards and try to educate people about the realities of the Islamic world.
 
It's complete insanity. One of my best friends is a Muslim woman who has lived pretty much her whole life in the ME. She's never worn hijab or any head covering, she goes out to bars and clubs, curses like a sailor, and is a devout Muslim, prays five times a day, doesn't drink, etc. The guys in this thread have no clue and they know it, which is why @uppercutbus has decided to cower from debate and hide behind likes. They've never been to the region, they've never studied the religion, they don't have any family or friends who are Muslims, but they feel the need to go on martial arts message boards and try to educate people about the realities of the Islamic world.
No one replied to my post about reformation. I'm not the one running. I don't think you're going to convince anyone about muslim countries, no one wants to go there and no ones beating down any doors to get into them. Muslims don't even like other muslims. Turkey was once thought by liberals to be an example of a progressive Islamic country then they dropped narrative quickly.
 
It's complete insanity. One of my best friends is a Muslim woman who has lived pretty much her whole life in the ME. She's never worn hijab or any head covering, she goes out to bars and clubs, curses like a sailor, and is a devout Muslim, prays five times a day, doesn't drink, etc. The guys in this thread have no clue and they know it, which is why @uppercutbus has decided to cower from debate and hide behind likes. They've never been to the region, they've never studied the religion, they don't have any family or friends who are Muslims, but they feel the need to go on martial arts message boards and try to educate people about the realities of the Islamic world.

I read a report recently that stated that the people that had the most negative views of Muslims were the ones that rarely interacted or come across them in everyday life. A lot of the anti-Muslim brigade on this forum definitely portray that just by the way they talk about Muslims.

I have a very large extended family. From sisters to cousins and aunts, I count upto 30 Muslim women I know directly just from family. To the average Sherbro, they don’t see them as individuals- they just see one mass of oppressed females.

The truth is that not one of them is oppressed and they all vary in their way of life. Some wear hijab, some don’t and a couple wear the niqab. All do it by choice - in fact I know many cases where a male family member (usually the father) has told the daughter to remove the hijab as it can be unsafe but generally the girls ignore it. Politically, some are to the right, some to the left, a couple are ardent feminists and always seeking to debate with me. Most of them are quite fiery and the one of the ones that wears the Niqab is most fiery of all. Many of them do martial arts and if a sherbro came to them with some nonsense about trying to save them, he’d get a swift kick in the bollocks I’m sure.

It’s difficult explaining all this to people that are thoroughly committed to their white knight “let’s save all Muslim women” bullshit.
 
No one replied to my post about reformation. I'm not the one running. I don't think you're going to convince anyone about muslim countries, no one wants to go there and no ones beating down any doors to get into them. Muslims don't even like other muslims. Turkey was once thought by liberals to be an example of a progressive Islamic country then they dropped narrative quickly.

You didn't respond to my last post.

Honest question: Is there anything anyone could say to convince you that the media has misrepresented muslim countries? Why do you trust the media so much?
 
I read a report recently that stated that the people that had the most negative views of Muslims were the ones that rarely interacted or come across them in everyday life. A lot of the anti-Muslim brigade on this forum definitely portray that just by the way they talk about Muslims.

I have a very large extended family. From sisters to cousins and aunts, I count upto 30 Muslim women I know directly just from family. To the average Sherbro, they don’t see them as individuals- they just see one mass of oppressed females.

The truth is that not one of them is oppressed and they all vary in their way of life. Some wear hijab, some don’t and a couple wear the niqab. All do it by choice - in fact I know many cases where a male family member (usually the father) has told the daughter to remove the hijab as it can be unsafe but generally the girls ignore it. Politically, some are to the right, some to the left, a couple are ardent feminists and always seeking to debate with me. Most of them are quite fiery and the one of the ones that wears the Niqab is most fiery of all. Many of them do martial arts and if a sherbro came to them with some nonsense about trying to save them, he’d get a swift kick in the bollocks I’m sure.

It’s difficult explaining all this to people that are thoroughly committed to their white knight “let’s save all Muslim women” bullshit.

This all rings true to me. I have a Saudi friend who doesn't wear the niqab at home in Saudi because her dad finds it annoying, but she wears it in the States because she thinks of it as representing her identity (and to protect herself from men--go figure).

The best conversationalists I've ever met have almost all been muslim women. They know how to talk shit in a way that the vast majority of women don't, and have razor wits. The idea of men controlling them makes me chuckle. One of my good friend comes from a family of single mothers going back generations. Her grandmother married three dudes, all died early. Poor dudes were probably like these Sherdoggers and thought they could "control" a muslim woman.
 
You didn't respond to my last post.

Honest question: Is there anything anyone could say to convince you that the media has misrepresented muslim countries? Why do you trust the media so much?
we'll just have to agree to disagree. The proof is in the pudding, no ones running to muslim countries and we know what laws are present there. They even mistreat other muslims (shia/sunni) let alone other faiths.

How muslims practice their faith in their own countries should be the standard by which we judge Islam, where they get their own government to fully practice their faith as they see fit and not some minority in a western country.

Islam commands its followers to create a government that supports it. This may be one of the most ingenious ideas in the whole collection. Islam is the only religion that uses it. Other groups of religious people have had political aspirations, but no other major religious group orders its followers — as a religious duty — to create a government that follows its own system of law.

http://islamexposed.blogspot.com/2010/09/terrifying-brilliance-of-islam.html#4

Islam has a system of law, called Sharia (http://www.cfr.org/publication/8034/), and all Muslims are obligated to continually strive to make their government — wherever they are — follow it. Because of some of the other ideas added to Islam, you will see that this political addition to the idea-collection has significant consequences.

Many people are under the impression that the goal of Islam is to convert everyone to Islam. This is not so. The prime directive of Islam is to bring all people on earth under the rule of Islamic law. Read more about the political nature of the core doctrines of Islam. (http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/the-study-of-political-islam/)

Source: http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/2010/07/why-is-islam-so-successful.html

SJW's interpret Islam to their own "turn the other cheek" narrative that doesn't reflect reality (anti-everyone-not-like-us, FGM, violence, etc.) Islam intends to take over other systems, not live within them and be ruled by them. But SJW's point to vague/contested/not-so-vague texts and say "see! religion of peace!" when reality paints a different picture.

Malaysian state introduces public caning for Islamic crimes. Islamic State normal.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...ng-caned-in-front-of-cheering-crowd-1.4132951

aptopix-indonesia-gay-couple-caned.jpg


The state legislature in Kelantan, approved amendments to its sharia regulations to allow the punishment.

Caning could already be meted out as a punishment for Muslims under Sharia law in Malaysia, but not in public.

It has been pushing to introduce a tough Islamic criminal code, known as hudud, in the northeastern state that includes penalties such as amputations for theft and stoning to death for adultery.

The public caning in Kelantan would apply to issues ruled on by Islamic courts.

Malaysia/Indonesia and Turkey seem to be willfully going backwards. This is 100% proof of two things:

1 moderate muslims are ready to toe the line at the drop of a hat with a strong arm at the helm.

2 moderate muslims do not represent what happens when there is a large proportion of muslims in a country.

Libruls give muslims a pass with laws like this and claim "it's not real Islam". It is real Islam. Libruls insist that only a turn-the-other-cheek buddhist version of Islam is the only type of Islam that is genuine. The mulsim majority countries of the world point to the opposite direction.

Libruls promoted these countries as shining beacons of progressive muslim societies. Someone quoted Muad'dib from Dune as summing up the moderate muslim approach:

"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles."

Liberals and their oppression hierarchy ideology are as much a danger to the west as Islam itself.

Orlando bombing imam says to kill gays beforehand.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/131926167/



Funny thing is that this Iman spoke a few month before the shooting in Orlando. The media completely ignored it when the shooting happened. This news report is before the shooting.

Could you imaging if this was a Christian church and then 3 months later a white Christian shot the gay night club. The median would be going crazy about the speaker in the church prior to the sgooting.


Your counter-argument to debunk the above - "I know some women who aren't subjugated and treated like cattle". That's fine, and I'm not saying otherwise, but that doesn't change the above. It's not all or nothing dichotomy where your examples somehow prove the above false.
 
we'll just have to agree to disagree. The proof is in the pudding, no ones running to muslim countries and we know what laws are present there. They even mistreat other muslims (shia/sunni) let alone other faiths.

How muslims practice their faith in their own countries should be the standard by which we judge Islam, where they get their own government to fully practice their faith as they see fit and not some minority in a western country.

SJW's interpret Islam to their own "turn the other cheek" narrative that doesn't reflect reality (anti-everyone-not-like-us, FGM, violence, etc.) Islam intends to take over other systems, not live within them and be ruled by them. But SJW's point to vague/contested/not-so-vague texts and say "see! religion of peace!" when reality paints a different picture.

Your counter-argument to debunk the above - "I know some women who aren't subjugated and treated like cattle". That's fine, and I'm not saying otherwise, but that doesn't change the above. It's not all or nothing dichotomy where your examples somehow prove the above false.

This doesn't really answer either of my questions.

1. Is there anything anyone could say or show you to change your mind?
2. Why do you trust the media so much? Do you always trust the media or is it just on this issue?
 
Muslims have taqiya
Exactly. In their mind they aren't doing nothing wrong, just following their faith.
This has nothing to do with taqqiya though. That's only to be done if lying will protect you, yur family, and you're livelihood from anti-Muslim persecution. Does not apply here but then again not surprised to see ripskater spread falsehoods about others since that is primarily what he comes to the WR to do.
 
This has nothing to do with taqqiya though. That's only to be done if lying will protect you, yur family, and you're livelihood from anti-Muslim persecution. Does not apply here but then again not surprised to see ripskater spread falsehoods about others since that is primarily what he comes to the WR to do.
I think it's clear that @Ripskater is a gimmick / troll account. People have tried to educate him since as long as I can remember, trying to reason with him, but he still continues to post dumb stuff and spreads misinformation. It doesn't matter even who corrects him and delivers the information, the next thread he'll have forgotten what was said to him and continue to spout stupid and ignorant opinions.

Reading his posts is only good for one thing, to see what other idiots on Sherdog likes it.
 
I think it's clear that @Ripskater is a gimmick / troll account. People have tried to educate him since as long as I can remember, trying to reason with him, but he still continues to post dumb stuff and spreads misinformation. It doesn't matter even who corrects him and delivers the information, the next thread he'll have forgotten what was said to him and continue to spout dumb stuff.

Reading his posts is only good for one thing, to see what other idiots on Sherdog likes it.
Oh of course, @Ripskater seems to enjoy deliberately spreading falsehoods and malice here. I think he's probably a nice irl and just needs this place to let out all his inner ugliness. Or maybe he's as ugly irl as he is here.
 
It's complete insanity. One of my best friends is a Muslim woman who has lived pretty much her whole life in the ME. She's never worn hijab or any head covering, she goes out to bars and clubs, curses like a sailor, and is a devout Muslim, prays five times a day, doesn't drink, etc. The guys in this thread have no clue and they know it, which is why @uppercutbus has decided to cower from debate and hide behind likes. They've never been to the region, they've never studied the religion, they don't have any family or friends who are Muslims, but they feel the need to go on martial arts message boards and try to educate people about the realities of the Islamic world.
I'm sure that's true but let's be honest here for a second, your friend and her circles are likely elite relative to the rest of the population of the country she lives in. Elite women are and virtually have never been oppressed, they've always had access to channels for wealth and power. Its the poorer masses that are more representative and in the Muslim world the women among them don't always have the smoothest sailing to say the least.

Of course right wingers cynically exploit this to peddle fear and hatred of Muslims as a whole. These same oppressed women they shed crocodile tears for would be denied entry into their nations in a heartbeat if it were up to these right wingers. They don't actually care about them, they merely use the plight of Muslim women as a stick to beat all Muslims with. But that doesn't mean some of their criticism aren't valid even if they are skewed or distorted. If anything the Muslim world has become more oppressive towards women in the last two hundred years.
 
I'm not sure whether it's scary or comical how misinformed so many people here are with all things Muslim. Taqiya is predominantly a Shia term (10% of Muslims) and even then it does not give licence for people to lie willy-nilly. The irony is that the term is so minuscule and irrelevant within Islam that the average Muslim has never heard of it. I went through Islamic schools and studies for years and didn't come across the term once. Like most Muslims who have heard of the word, I heard it from one of those anti-Muslim right-wing websites and then researched it after. The mainstream belief in Islam is that lying is one of the biggest sins and something that causes corruption to the spiritual heart. This is the belief that average Muslims are bought up with and instil in their kids. The average Sherbro is not interested in reality however, so I'm probably wasting my words.
Oh of course, @Ripskater seems to enjoy deliberately spreading falsehoods and malice here. I think he's probably a nice irl and just needs this place to let out all his inner ugliness. Or maybe he's as ugly irl as he is here.
I think it's clear that @Ripskater is a gimmick / troll account. People have tried to educate him since as long as I can remember, trying to reason with him, but he still continues to post dumb stuff and spreads misinformation. It doesn't matter even who corrects him and delivers the information, the next thread he'll have forgotten what was said to him and continue to spout stupid and ignorant opinions.

Reading his posts is only good for one thing, to see what other idiots on Sherdog likes it.
Looks like some Muslim taqiya posting in this thread.
 
I'm sure that's true but let's be honest here for a second, your friend and her circles are likely elite relative to the rest of the population of the country she lives in. Elite women are and virtually have never been oppressed, they've always had access to channels for wealth and power. Its the poorer masses that are more representative and in the Muslim world the women among them don't always have the smoothest sailing to say the least.

Of course right wingers cynically exploit this to peddle fear and hatred of Muslims as a whole. These same oppressed women they shed crocodile tears for would be denied entry into their nations in a heartbeat if it were up to these right wingers. They don't actually care about them, they merely use the plight of Muslim women as a stick to beat all Muslims with. But that doesn't mean some of their criticism aren't valid even if they are skewed or distorted. If anything the Muslim world has become more oppressive towards women in the last two hundred years.

To say that women are oppressed isn't controversial.

But the people in this thread are talking about Muslims and Muslim nations as if they aren't people at all. My biggest beef is that they legitimately don't understand the difference between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. One of the guys is saying that Muslim women can't travel without a male guardian and that they all have to cover themselves. He legit has no idea what he's talking about, but he persists and other uninformed people eat it up.

My other problem is that it's total confirmation bias. When American research institutions publish the statistic that 1 in 4 college women in America are sexually assaulted, these are the first people to demand the claim be investigated and that it can't possibly be true. Yet they lap up any statistic they see about the ME without questioning it at all. Dude thought Jordanian women wear burkhas because he saw a pic on the internet. I mean, come on. They aren't even trying.
 
To say that women are oppressed isn't controversial.

But the people in this thread are talking about Muslims and Muslim nations as if they aren't people at all. My biggest beef is that they legitimately don't understand the difference between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. One of the guys is saying that Muslim women can't travel without a male guardian and that they all have to cover themselves. He legit has no idea what he's talking about, but he persists and other uninformed people eat it up.
Sure some of these critics don't see the distinctions within the Muslim world. But even conceding that there are still very serious problems for women in many of these different Muslim countries. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not the same but they are both terrible places for women to live in for different but not entirely unrelated reasons.
My other problem is that it's total confirmation bias. When American research institutions publish the statistic that 1 in 4 college women in America are sexually assaulted, these are the first people to demand the claim be investigated and that it can't possibly be true. Yet they lap up any statistic they see about the ME without questioning it at all. Dude thought Jordanian women wear burkhas because he saw a pic on the internet. I mean, come on. They aren't even trying.
Sure that's also a fair observation. But there are indeed many credible statistics which suggest that the life of a woman in many Muslim majority countries is uniquely difficult.
 
Sure some of these critics don't see the distinctions within the Muslim world. But even conceding that there are still very serious problems for women in many of these different Muslim countries. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not the same but they are both terrible places for women to live in for different but not entirely unrelated reasons.

Sure that's also a fair observation. But there are indeed many credible statistics which suggest that the life of a woman in many Muslim majority countries is uniquely difficult.

I think it's more complicated than that.

Those countries have entirely different gender traditions and norms. The arab/muslim world, from what I've seen and read, isn't conflicted about treating women like objects or property. However, in the West, objectification has become synonymous with "bad" because our culture is built around the agency of the individual. There is no higher desire in the West than individual liberty.

Most other cultures don't operate this way. In most cultures, the highest and noblest desire is preserving the peace and longevity of the society. From this perspective, objectification takes on a different tint. When the goal of the individual is to ensure that they play their role in maintaining familial or societal stability, an object has the easy job of simply maintaining value. As a result, anything that risks devaluing oneself is a crime. Similarly, the role of the agent is also to maintain the object's value.

We talk a lot about how many women aren't satisfued with such gender roles, but what about the men? How many muslim men are satisfied with a life of having to provide sole income in countries with dim economic prospects? Or having to ask to marry a woman without getting to know her? How many muslim men are happy working all day and not getting to spend time with the family they are providing for?

The answer is that it doesn't matter because the individual isn't the most important unit in these societies. Yes, men enjoy agency. But that isn't free. It comes with responsibility and incredible financial and physical risk. Similarly, female objectification comes with numerous benefits, such as low incidence of random violence, no financial responsibilities, and social advantages (such as sitting in front of the bus and not having to wait in line at the bank or dmv).

I'd argue that most people in most societies are generally comfortable conforming to their society's gender roles. That includes women in Muslim cultures. Just because we wouldn't like to be in their position doesn't mean THEY don't like being in their position. Unsurprisingly, most people, men and women, actually don't like having responsibilities, and Muslim women basically get to opt out. That's an incredibly privilege and I wouldn't be surprised if women in the Muslim world reported less dissatisfaction with their lives than women in the West.

It's ironic that Western men don't see this. All of the biggest critics of Feminism point out that female happiness has plummeted since being granted supposed freedom. It also baffles me that American men, whose women have been in a state of near constant protest for over a CENTURY, think that other countries are the ones oppressing their women. Seriously, is there any other country in which women have so publically outraged and dissatisfied for so long? Maybe Iran? India?
 

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