My bitterness towards modern gaming vs gaming 10 years ago, summed up in this article

[RoryFan]

Reading this thread is like watching a quadruple amputee compete in an arse kicking competition.

 

[Squall Leonhart]

Not a contradiction.

One is about absolute figures. The other is about proportion. You want the mainstream to flow through your court, but it changed course, and now it doesn't. You don't care that the river flowing through your court is larger than ever. You're simply upset that it isn't the main channel.

I disagree. You think there are more games now in the secondary channel than there were in the primary channel in 2006 ish?

 

[Squall Leonhart]

I think you got the history wrong. DOTA was a Warcraft 3 mod, not a ripoff. It used the game engine, but no it very clearly does not play like WC3. If you seriously think that then I doubt you have played both games.

LOL is allowed to exist because DOTA really is a legitimate subgenre of games now. How Steam got the rights to use the name DOTA I don't know, but the game is legitimately good whether or not you like that genre of games.

Anyways there are tons of games out now that I think are better than the old Warcraft formula. Warhammer 2 is about to release, so I'm not exactly heartbroken by a lack of Warcraft sequels

LoL and DOTA essentially take the idea of heroes from W3, their abilities, the item inventory, etc. and run with it. It is similar. Production values are similar too. The team for LoL was encompassed by W3 creators.

 

[Squall Leonhart]

Do you understand that many of us in here are not only already aware of this history, but have actually played both games?

In Warcraft 3 you control your minions. In MOBAs like League of Legends the minions control themselves, and are completely uniform. You control only a hero, and minions are spawned in trains that move at a constant pace along "lanes" sentried by powerful Turrets. You work together in teams to take these down. Fewer turrets means less damage to your train, and the flow will start to favor you and grind down the opponent unless he eliminates a similar turret working for you.

Essentially, in a MOBA, you're in a glorified tug-of-war over the real estate of the map with your minions pulling a certain portion of each rope into the enemy's territory. This is fundamentally different than Warcraft 3 in that real estate and resource control are linearly correlated. This can flip in a moment, of course, but if you are winning, then you are controlling a larger portion of the map. In Warcraft 3 it was entirely possible (however unlikely) to control the majority of resources concentrated on minority regions of the map.

You also don't build anything. You simply buy upgrades that buff your hero's stats or abilities, and you simultaneously level these stats and abilities. The only thing you harvest is gold (to buy items) by killing minions (or achieving other objectives like killing special jungle creeps). Your efforts are focused on diminishing the opponent's minion trains, and aiding your own; ultimately closing in on the enemy's home base, where his minions are spawned, and killing the home crystal to win the game. The opposing team can resign, but otherwise, this is the only way to win, and the same every time. In Warcraft 3 of course your goal is to eliminate the opposing hero's structures, but the size, structure, layout, location, and nature of villages varied from game to game.

In MOBAs you also must play as a part of a team composition-- even if AI bots play your teammates. This isn't inherent to Warcraft 3. There aren't multiple, distinct, playable races. You also can't play multiple heroes and switch between them. You can only play your one hero. Nevertheless, in MOBAs, teams of heroes enjoy a synergy from a composition of different types of heroes with traditional attributes optimal for completing tasks composing "roles" appropriate to those respective attributes.


I cannot possibly emphasize how little am I interested in being lectured about this by someone who clearly doesn't have a feel for these games, and doesn't understand how ridiculous it is to compare them in terms of how they play. It's a testament to the greatness and diversity of modding. Dota 2 is literally so distinct from Warcraft 3 that they created and named a new subgenre for it, ffs. You wanna stick your head up your ass, be my guest, Luke, but don't ask me to hold your beersaber.

There were countless DOTA type maps made in the warcraft 3 mapmaker, and one specific type became popular. It was all stuff that could be done essentially with the W3 engine. Then a team of guys from W3 created league of legends with a similar system of heroes, creeps, and a rendtion of DOTA, which was an example of a map created in W3 with some ingenuity. Countless others were made in this style. Production values in LoL are similar to W3, art style, ect.

You have your head up your tight lil rectum. You'd know there were thousands of DOTA-style maps in W3 when battle.net was at its height for W3 if you were around back then. There were maps that were sorta like DOTA, made with triggers of every sort.

 

[Madmick]

There were countless DOTA type maps made in the warcraft 3 mapmaker, and one specific type became popular. It was all stuff that could be done essentially with the W3 engine. Then a team of guys from W3 created league of legends with a similar system of heroes, creeps, and a rendtion of DOTA, which was an example of a map created in W3 with some ingenuity. Countless others were made in this style. Production values in LoL are similar to W3, art style, ect.

You have your head up your tight lil rectum. You'd know there were thousands of DOTA-style maps in W3 when battle.net was at its height for W3 if you were around back then. There were maps that were sorta like DOTA, made with triggers of every sort.

Do you really want to get thrashed over this a second time? It's clear as fucking day you have no clue what these games are like. You literally posted screenshots, and said, "See? They look the same!" Art style is all you've got, bud, and that is easily owed to the origin. If you want to keep making ignorant arguments of lineage, not of gameplay & what constitutes the genre differences, then by all means, keep kicking ass with those quadriplegic stumps.

You bit on the wrong link in the fence. You ate shit. It won't taste any better the more bites you take.

 

[Blayt7hh]

LoL and DOTA essentially take the idea of heroes from W3, their abilities, the item inventory, etc. and run with it. It is similar. Production values are similar too. The team for LoL was encompassed by W3 creators.

Baldur's Gate has inventory, heros, abilities and all that too. So by your logic Warcraft 3 is a Baldur's Gate rip off. You see how stupid that argument sounds? The games have different gameplay and MOBA is now it's own genre. Warcraft 3's engine gave birth to it, but it's by no means a Warcraft rip off.

I'm pretty convinced you have never played a MOBA at this point

 

[Crash Lance]

I'm pretty convinced you have never played a MOBA at this point

Have you ever tried Capcom vs. SNK 2 (or Capcom vs. SNK 1)?

Have you ever tried KOF (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Street Fighter 1, 2, 3, or 4?

Have you ever tried Street Fighter Alpha/Zero (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Garou (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Legend of Zelda (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Super Smash Bros. Melee?

Have you ever tried Project M (or any of the other modifications for the Super Smash Bros. series)?

 

[Blayt7hh]

Have you ever tried Capcom vs. SNK 2 (or Capcom vs. SNK 1)?

Have you ever tried KOF (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Street Fighter 1, 2, 3, or 4?

Have you ever tried Street Fighter Alpha/Zero (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Garou (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Legend of Zelda (any of them)?

Have you ever tried Super Smash Bros. Melee?

Have you ever tried Project M (or any of the other modifications for the Super Smash Bros. series)?

... did you quote the wrong post or something?

 

[Madmick]

... did you quote the wrong post or something?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's quoting the wrong post.

 

[Concrete]

Don't click on The Verge, would be a good start.

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

I never got past the old Blizzard games. If I played a game now, I'd definitely load up my d2 single player character files and keep at where I was. Unfortunately, I've forgotten everything and that community is long dead. But I still have my characters and items

 

[Willy Womack]

Some great games have come out recently but I've noticed a lot more blatant cash grabbing BS.

I bought For Honor the day it came out and that was probably the worst 60 dollars I've ever spent (maybe). Absolute waste of money for a game that didn't work. I'm not sure I'll ever buy another Ubisoft game, even if it means I have to skip the new South Park.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Some great games have come out recently but I've noticed a lot more blatant cash grabbing BS.

I bought For Honor the day it came out and that was probably the worst 60 dollars I've ever spent (maybe). Absolute waste of money for a game that didn't work. I'm not sure I'll ever buy another Ubisoft game, even if it means I have to skip the new South Park.

I was let down by that game overall, but I don't think it was a cash grab. I think they really tried to make a good game, just kind of failed.

 

[Willy Womack]

They failed horribly. I don't blame the software guys because the gameplay was decent and I enjoyed the combat system. It was just literally impossible to play online with any consistency and it also lacked content (unless you want to play the microtransaction BS). For that I blame Ubisoft and their cost-cutting/cash-grabbing methods.

It's a shame because I was so excited too. I don't know if any of you played Blade Of Darkness on the PC back in the day but that game was awesome. I was hoping for something like that but with more of a multiplayer emphasis. On that note at least the Dark Souls games were great. Those are some of the best games to come out in years and I got more than my money's worth with all of them.

 

[Squall Leonhart]

Baldur's Gate has inventory, heros, abilities and all that too. So by your logic Warcraft 3 is a Baldur's Gate rip off. You see how stupid that argument sounds? The games have different gameplay and MOBA is now it's own genre. Warcraft 3's engine gave birth to it, but it's by no means a Warcraft rip off.

I'm pretty convinced you have never played a MOBA at this point

Baldur's Gate's interface looked nothing like that of W3...LoL is so similar to W3 that if you squint it is the same game.

So the graphics are nearly identical

The team is comprised of many of the same people

The hero aspect is similar

The RTS setup is similar

It is essentially based on a map that someone made in the warcraft 3 mapmaker

 

[Madmick]

Baldur's Gate's interface looked nothing like that of W3...LoL is so similar to W3 that if you squint it is the same game.

So the graphics are nearly identical

Vanity. Meaningless.

The team is comprised of many of the same people

What does this mean? That they use the same character lore for an MMO when your precise bitching in this thread focuses on the lack of any actual narrative in these games? Yeah, they use these same "heroes" in World of Warcraft and Hearthstone. Are those both RTS, now, too?

The hero aspect is similar

(Already explained in a post above)

The RTS setup is similar

(Literally the only similarity is the "Bird's Eye" or "God's Eye" perspective of the map)

It is essentially based on a map that someone made in the warcraft 3 mapmaker

Again, meaningless. You're essentially referencing the fact it uses the God's Eye view, again, which also goes back to your original and central argument that they look similar, and thus are the "same game". You made the same argument three different times, here, focused on vanity: a child's argument.

I got a truckload of shit and a spoon if you want to keep doing this.

 

[KYS]

https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/1/11141082/what-video-games-to-play-in-2016

...except the article lists the differences as positives, when in many ways they are negatives too.


How is DLC cash grabbing a positive?

How is single player being supplemental to multiplayer a positive?

How is mandatory pay to play online a positive?

How is the dominance of realism and the improvement of graphics making most games look generic/similar and less stylized a positive?

And this one triggers me to no end....but DOTA, League of Legends, etc....it's just Warcraft 3 man. And I enjoyed Warcraft 3 much more. I'm completely baffled by the explosion. When the hell are we getting Warcraft 4?


As he notes, it isn't even the same hobby anymore. I played games for escapism, an interactive movie with a great story, with multiplayer when I occasionally felt competitive with my buddies. If I wanted to play sports I'd go outside.

Video games were always more than an online sport. They were an artistic experience, a place to play with cool toys and collect them, OR a place to play against a buddy.

I might sound like an old fogey, but I'm 29 and 10 years ago I was 19 lmao Can I get a fuck yeah?

Just play the old games.

Or the new old games. Retro wave stuff.

Strike that, just play FF8.

 

[Squall Leonhart]

Vanity. Meaningless.

What does this mean? That they use the same character lore for an MMO when your precise bitching in this thread focuses on the lack of any actual narrative in these games? Yeah, they use these same "heroes" in World of Warcraft and Hearthstone. Are those both RTS, now, too?


(Already explained in a post above)


(Literally the only similarity is the "Bird's Eye" or "God's Eye" perspective of the map)

Again, meaningless. You're essentially referencing the fact it uses the God's Eye view, again, which also goes back to your original and central argument that they look similar, and thus are the "same game". You made the same argument three different times, here, focused on vanity: a child's argument.

I got a truckload of shit and a spoon if you want to keep doing this.

The best example I can give would be, what if I took the original metal gear solid.... took the same developers from that game, and made another game called something else....but with the same graphics engine, perspective, and art style.....and created this game with a mapmaker that came packaged IN GAME with MGS.....had playable characters that looked quite a bit like MGS characters, with inventories that open up just like those in MGS.......

EXCEPT that the point of the game was specifically to throw grenades into doorways instead of run around and shoot enemies and defeat bosses. Granted, in the original MGS you could throw grenades into doorways just like in the knockoff game, but it wasn't the game's focus, and in the new game you could do this much better and it was more refined.

Would you say that game is pretty much a knockoff? Yup.

Now go put some lipstick on at your vanity you little girl.

By the way, I was there when Arlovski knocked out Buentello in 2005 at Mohegan Sun...the entire crowd didn't see the KO and boooooooed his ass out of there.

 

[Madmick]

The best example I can give would be, what if I took the original metal gear solid.... took the same developers from that game, and made another game called something else....but with the same graphics engine, perspective, and art style.....and created this game with a mapmaker that came packaged IN GAME with MGS.....had playable characters that looked quite a bit like MGS characters, with inventories that open up just like those in MGS.......

See, you already ate shit, again. Warcraft 3 was developed by Blizzard. Dota 2 was developed by Valve who purchased the IP that grew out of a community-born mod from a Warcraft 3 custom gamemaker/mapmaker mode created and maintained by anonymous developers like "Icefrog". So what you'd have is a game that looks like Warcraft 3, but isn't necessarily anything like Warcraft 3, and that's what you have with Warcraft 3 and Dota 2.

Stop trying to talk like you understand how any of this works. It's amazing how you can't let go of a devastated argument where you clearly don't know shit about one (or both) games.

 

[Squall Leonhart]

See, you already ate shit, again. Warcraft 3 was developed by Blizzard. Dota 2 was developed by Valve who purchased the IP that grew out of a community-born mod from a Warcraft 3 custom gamemaker/mapmaker mode created and maintained by anonymous developers like "Icefrog". So what you'd have is a game that looks like Warcraft 3, but isn't necessarily anything like Warcraft 3, and that's what you have with Warcraft 3 and Dota 2.

Stop trying to talk like you understand how any of this works. It's amazing how you can't let go of a devastated argument where you clearly don't know shit about one (or both) games.

And did any of the Valve team work on W3? Even if they did not, my other points very much remain. Fuck off toots.