No points for body triangle back take - one od the dumbest rules?

[michi972]

Wy there are no points when you take back and you make triangle with legs, why you don't get points?You have better control, it is uncomfortable for your opponent.Is there any logical reason why it isn't scored?

 

[Dogstarman]

Wy there are no points when you take back and you make triangle with legs, why you don't get points?You have better control, it is uncomfortable for your opponent.Is there any logical reason why it isn't scored?

Get your hooks count to 3 then transfer to body triangle. The body triangle is a great control position but it also limits your movement as well.

 

[RemyR]

IBJJF has quite a few dumb rules from not getting with the times. This is one of them.

 

[JustTheTip]

It is too easy to get. The struggle to get and achieve the hooks in makes it worth the 4 points. While the body triangle is harder for the opponent to escape, it is much easier to get than hooks.

 

[Gabicho]

I guess it goes more along the lines that it cannot be scored by everyone due to physicall limitations, both of the attacker and the defender.
Guys with short legs or fighting thick or obese opponents just cannot get a body triangle.
Hooks are doable.

 

[Alech33]

IBJJF has quite a few dumb rules from not getting with the times. This is one of them.

Exactly. If you are looking for points sink your hooks in and then lock in the body triangle. There's a lot of rules/scoring that I don't agree with. If you need to get points gotta play to their rules

 

[Alech33]

It is too easy to get. The struggle to get and achieve the hooks in makes it worth the 4 points. While the body triangle is harder for the opponent to escape, it is much easier to get than hooks.

How do you figure it's too easy to get? Getting around to someone back is most of the battle. I can see hooks being slightly harder but they can give you trouble trying to lock the triangle too

 

[berimBOWLoh]

Body triangle limits all your attacks. It’s like getting mount and staying grapevines the whole time. Sure you keep the position but it’s also a stall out type spot. Defender only worries about RnC and not armbars, kinuras, triangles etc

As far as the rules I think the point system will always be flawed

 

[EGDM]

It is too easy to get. The struggle to get and achieve the hooks in makes it worth the 4 points. While the body triangle is harder for the opponent to escape, it is much easier to get than hooks.

Points reflect the utility of a position, not its difficulty. The fact that many high-level grapplers put in hooks for points and then immediately give them up for a triangle tells you all you need to know.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

As dumb as the reaping rule

 

[yetanother]

One problem according to the people responsible by the rather lame FILA grappling rules they remove scoring for the back triangle because there wasn't a clear cut boundary when people where taking the back from the closed guard.
OTOH they could score the back triangle only when combined with a seatbelt grip.

 

[cjd]

I find the body triangle offers superior control for consolidating the position, and can easily be switched into one leg across, one posting on the hip - perfect for arm traps or switching to collar chokes and armlocks. I find the hooks largely useless except as a waystation to getting to this kind of control.

So like, yeah, the hooks rule is dumb. Agreed with the poster above that points are scored (or ought to be) based on the utility of the position/action rather than degree of difficulty. This isn't diving.

 

[Alech33]

Body triangle limits all your attacks. It’s like getting mount and staying grapevines the whole time. Sure you keep the position but it’s also a stall out type spot. Defender only worries about RnC and not armbars, kinuras, triangles etc

As far as the rules I think the point system will always be flawed

I don't entirely agree with the first part but it's a good argument. I like the triangle while I work to cross the hands for a straight jacket attack so not exactly stalling. As for their always being flaws, absolutely! That said I think ibjjf has a lot of obvious flaws that they are unwilling to fix

 

[tekkenfan]

yeah tis pretty dumb i could see maybe 1 hook maybe but a body triangle? lmao its harder to get a body triangle than both hooks and is more control its silly

 

[yetanother]

That said I think ibjjf has a lot of obvious flaws that they are unwilling to fix

Most of the changes IBJJF have been doing where small tweaks to things that where extremely ridiculous. Nothing serious has been done to simplify rules, make them easier to ref or to discourage stalling. It's simply ridiculous that even outside of a pressure of a match going one and having an open pdf rule book there are plenty of calls that are hard to make.

 

[Dirty Holt]

I guess it goes more along the lines that it cannot be scored by everyone due to physicall limitations, both of the attacker and the defender.
Guys with short legs or fighting thick or obese opponents just cannot get a body triangle.
Hooks are doable.

You know what? I never thought of that, but holy crap does it make sense.

 

[cjd]

You know what? I never thought of that, but holy crap does it make sense.

I think there are reasonable adjustments to the wording of this rule that encompass both the hooks, body triangle and other such permutations of how the legs are used to control using the rear mount; ie, being able to touch one foot to the other leg or something like that.

 

[dmwalking]

I guess it goes more along the lines that it cannot be scored by everyone due to physicall limitations, both of the attacker and the defender.
Guys with short legs or fighting thick or obese opponents just cannot get a body triangle.
Hooks are doable.

Was Marcelo able to get both hooks against Ricco Rodriguez? I can't remember. I know he had his back.

 

[dmwalking]

I vote that it's a stupid rule. Both hooks in represents full control. Body triangle with seatbelt grip is full control. Should count toward points.

Also, crucifix should get points too.

 

[JustTheTip]

How do you figure it's too easy to get? Getting around to someone back is most of the battle. I can see hooks being slightly harder but they can give you trouble trying to lock the triangle too

Points reflect the utility of a position, not its difficulty. The fact that many high-level grapplers put in hooks for points and then immediately give them up for a triangle tells you all you need to know.

It depends on your body composition. I have long legs and a short torso so its way easier for me to get the body triangle than both hooks.
Points reflect difficulty too as well as utility of position.