No wonder Trump wants to build a wall

[Rod1]

The wall was built and finished in 2003, why bring up drug problems that started in 1980?

Also as far as illegal immigration specifically:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-fence-israel-cut-illegal-immigration-99-per/

99% decrease in illegal immigration since the Israel wall was erected.

We are talking about drugs and organized crime isnt?

 

[peytonlucy]

It baffles me to think that people actually think a wall will do anything to stop illegal immigration.
Humans will always find a way around a wall. And to assume that a wall will stop this kind of violence is just stupid. The U.S. would be better off spending the money on helping Mexico be a better place so people wouldn't need to flee to safer areas.

I've seen reports that in the last 30 years the US has spent more than $260 billion on immigration enforcement, including border patrol. A wall will have some, unknown, level of effectiveness. It certainly will help border enforcement coverage, by patrol agents, to some degree.

Perhaps the wall will help select illegals who are physically more robust and will require less in health care expenditures.

 

[peytonlucy]

Worked for Israel. Worked for China.

The wall is cheap if you amortize for however long it is going to stand.

Worked for Hadrian too.

 

[peytonlucy]

Worked for Israel. Worked for China.

The wall is cheap if you amortize for however long it is going to stand.

Every stadium or arena in the country uses fences. No stadium sends ushers around examining tickets.

 

[peytonlucy]

if you really dont want them here, all you have to do is crack down on people who hire them.

Agree, but if they provide a name and id# of someone here legally they are okay. Do you think that in all of the database hacks that maybe names an id's have been mined? What about the illegals who are not working on the books? A common approach, by illegals and Americans, is to receive welfare benefits and work under the table. Construction, agriculture and even in home jobs like cleaning and personal care attendants are popular fields. The last two Dem presidents have had trouble appointing cabinet and other agency heads who didn't have tax, sometimes, nanny related, issues, including the head of the IRS. Repubs are nearly as bad.

 

[peytonlucy]

The wall is cheap if you amortize for however long it is going to stand.

A wall can work to keep people in too. Like the Berlin wall, or every prison in the US.

 

[peytonlucy]

The wall is cheap if you amortize for however long it is going to stand.

Liberals often live in GATED communities.

 

[peytonlucy]

Military bases, even with all the personnel, have fences and walls.

 

[MMAViewer]

Military bases, even with all the personnel, have fences and walls.

You do realize there is fencing and walls along a majrity of the border?. The problem is not illegal crossings, that is actually a lower percentage than the right wants to admit. Visa jumpers, and people coming on boats, ships and from the north border are a bigger percent.
Simple solution, crack down on people who pay illegals. if someone is using someone else's id that will show up and crack down on them. I use a payroll system who puts every employee id and ss card through a database and if they get paid by 2 companies at the same time boom, they are gone.
My general liability audits me every year. Bust the businesses who cheat, reward the business who don't and poof, problem solved.
Illegals don' get welfare btw that has been debunked multiple times. They also don't get a tax refund, they also pay sales tax. The myth that illegals cost us has been debunked.
The un claimed income tax well outweighs fraud. They do not vote either, they don't n' want to bring attention to themselves by doing taxes or welfare.
Deportation and border patrol cost will not be off set by a wall.
And be clear I would be fine building the wall for the simple fact it would pay people to build it and those people would put that money directly into the economy but I am not so delusional to think it will solve any problem with illegal immigration. Humans have long proven to be smarter than a wall. if they want in they'll get in.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Why would a drug dealer want to move to the US when they are doing fine in Mexico?

There is a hierarchy in crime. People backstab and get put on hitlists all the time. Getting out to another country is normal.

But I wasn’t even talking about drug dealers. I’m talking about the difference between going through the painstaking process of applying for citizenship vs groups of people, who have lived through a life we can only dream of, rushing across a border with a whole different set of values. As in, their main concerns aren’t whether there are unicorn bathrooms, whether Hollywood starlets had to blow a guy to get their start, or if Rosie O’Donnel gets called fat and ugly. We live in a dream world where we get tabloid news to give us something to worry about. We order pizzas with food from any part of the world on it, and are mad if it’s five minutes late to our doors. We set the temperatures in our houses to what we want, when we want. We eat meat multiple times a day because poor people are doing a shit job on poor animals stuffed into terrible conditions. Then we get all tears when some dude saves a rabbit from a wildfire that one of us probably started with a cigarette that was built to put money in the pocket s of our drug lords. But we are entitled to that, and damned well look down on those who don’t buy into that system. Julius Caesar never had the things we expect. We do not have a realistic view of the world, or even of our forefathers.

We are the people in the capitol in the Hunger Games.

These people, not the ones who have the time and luxury of applying for citizenship, but these poor, poor people who have suffered what I cannot relate properly to, who are fleeing hell and will Dom what it take so to survive, and the criminals are undoubtedly amongst them are going to bring problems.

I do not think the answer is to leave them to die, or to make it impossible for them to escape hell. I also don’t think the answer is to continue to allow a group that contains within it an obvious criminal element, to slip in overnight and undocumented.

We are seeing this with the Muslim refugees in Europe. I know Muslim families who immigrated here, just like the English immigrants I know, and Indian ones, who went through the screen in process and ultimately proved that they wanted to be citizens. They are good Canadians. Good people. This isn’t about race or religion. If our continent was in a civil war, run by drug lords and jihadists, and had been for decades, the white people who had to flee who also be people I would hesitate to allow in by the boat with no papers of any kind.

The answer isn’t blind liberalism, and I hope it’s isnt blind mistrust, either. Personally, I would love to see that amazing American military take care of those horrible bastards closest to us. We have heard so much about Isis, and rightly so, but the demon beside us is just as bad. Makes me wonder why it is so much quieter on that media front.

 

[peytonlucy]

Illegals don' get welfare btw that has been debunked multiple times. They also don't get a tax refund, they also pay sales tax. The myth that illegals cost us has been debunked.
The un claimed income tax well outweighs fraud. They do not vote either, they don't n' want to bring attention to themselves by doing taxes or welfare.
Deportation and border patrol cost will not be off set by a wall.
And be clear I would be fine building the wall for the simple fact it would pay people to build it and those people would put that money directly into the economy but I am not so delusional to think it will solve any problem with illegal immigration. Humans have long proven to be smarter than a wall. if they want in they'll get in.

Illegals do receive welfare. In my area, the state government runs ads, in the summer and fall, on radio for government benefits for migrant workers regardless of status. I've been in welfare offices, supplying accounting information for clients, with illegals who are openly collecting. Stop the lies. I've see it in person.

I've read studies on the sales tax issue, produced by pro-illegal think tanks, when one works through the representations, it becomes obvious that only a small minority of income is being claimed by illegals or the estimate of sales tax paid is much too high. This can be verified by examining the claimed sales tax, with federal income tax laws, and state income tax laws (which I do professionally.)

A very common scenario is an illegal man working and having only social security tax withheld (if not completely under-the-table) with a wife and kids claiming a separate address and no association with him (he is supposedly in another country) with the wife and kids receiving money from a variety of social service sources and free medical care. This alone exceeds their income in a foreign country, without the earnings of the man.

American citizens do the same thing too.

 

[Rod1]

There is a hierarchy in crime. People backstab and get put on hitlists all the time. Getting out to another country is normal.

But I wasn’t even talking about drug dealers. I’m talking about the difference between going through the painstaking process of applying for citizenship vs groups of people, who have lived through a life we can only dream of, rushing across a border with a whole different set of values. As in, their main concerns aren’t whether there are unicorn bathrooms, whether Hollywood starlets had to blow a guy to get their start, or if Rosie O’Donnel gets called fat and ugly. We live in a dream world where we get tabloid news to give us something to worry about. We order pizzas with food from any part of the world on it, and are mad if it’s five minutes late to our doors. We set the temperatures in our houses to what we want, when we want. We eat meat multiple times a day because poor people are doing a shit job on poor animals stuffed into terrible conditions. Then we get all tears when some dude saves a rabbit from a wildfire that one of us probably started with a cigarette that was built to put money in the pocket s of our drug lords. But we are entitled to that, and damned well look down on those who don’t buy into that system. Julius Caesar never had the things we expect. We do not have a realistic view of the world, or even of our forefathers.

We are the people in the capitol in the Hunger Games.

These people, not the ones who have the time and luxury of applying for citizenship, but these poor, poor people who have suffered what I cannot relate properly to, who are fleeing hell and will Dom what it take so to survive, and the criminals are undoubtedly amongst them are going to bring problems.

I do not think the answer is to leave them to die, or to make it impossible for them to escape hell. I also don’t think the answer is to continue to allow a group that contains within it an obvious criminal element, to slip in overnight and undocumented.

We are seeing this with the Muslim refugees in Europe. I know Muslim families who immigrated here, just like the English immigrants I know, and Indian ones, who went through the screen in process and ultimately proved that they wanted to be citizens. They are good Canadians. Good people. This isn’t about race or religion. If our continent was in a civil war, run by drug lords and jihadists, and had been for decades, the white people who had to flee who also be people I would hesitate to allow in by the boat with no papers of any kind.

The answer isn’t blind liberalism, and I hope it’s isnt blind mistrust, either. Personally, I would love to see that amazing American military take care of those horrible bastards closest to us. We have heard so much about Isis, and rightly so, but the demon beside us is just as bad. Makes me wonder why it is so much quieter on that media front.

If you want to escape the wrath of a druglord you can move to another place in Mexico outside of their turf, if you pissed a druglord big enough to kill you anywhere you are more likely a big shot yourself and at that point you are better of surrendering yourself to the federal authorities to be sent to a supermax.

Also i think you have quite a twisted view of how is Mexico, its not a post-apocalyptic country.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Why would a drug dealer want to move to the US when they are doing fine in Mexico?

Exactly.

I'm not sure if these morans truly think that narcotraffickers and hitmen for organizations working with billions of dollars are really the ones out there crossing the desert on foot.

I'm guessing a few are but the vast, vast majority of these immigrants are dudes that will end up washing dishes or landscaping or something. In fact, I can't recall a single mass killing by a Mexican cartel member in US soil. The mass killings in the US seem to be the domain of... "other" types of people.

 

[MMAViewer]

Illegals do receive welfare. In my area, the state government runs ads, in the summer and fall, on radio for government benefits for migrant workers regardless of status. I've been in welfare offices, supplying accounting information for clients, with illegals who are openly collecting. Stop the lies. I've see it in person.

I've read studies on the sales tax issue, produced by pro-illegal think tanks, when one works through the representations, it becomes obvious that only a small minority of income is being claimed by illegals or the estimate of sales tax paid is much too high. This can be verified by examining the claimed sales tax, with federal income tax laws, and state income tax laws (which I do professionally.)

A very common scenario is an illegal man working and having only social security tax withheld (if not completely under-the-table) with a wife and kids claiming a separate address and no association with him (he is supposedly in another country) with the wife and kids receiving money from a variety of social service sources and free medical care. This alone exceeds their income in a foreign country, without the earnings of the man.

American citizens do the same thing too.

Got anything to back that up that isn't Brietbart or fox or someone hack conservative site?

 

[helltoupee]

Why is wall coverage a non-linear function? What makes it so much harder to cover 5x the space if you have enough patrol? You realize some things scale differently than others?

So manpower and funding are unlimited resources?

 

[peytonlucy]

Got anything to back that up that isn't Brietbart or fox or someone hack conservative site?

I've been in the financial/accounting world for 30 years; I don't need Breitbart. I've never been registered Repub.

Go to the studies that claim to show that illegals pay lots of sales tax and claim there income on tax returns. They do this state by state. Then look at the income tax collections compared to sales tax - the results are impossible according to the narratives. Either only a small fraction of the income is being reported for tax purposes, or the sales tax paid is grossly over-estimated, or the illegals have another source of money. The other source could be that they are coming to the US with much larger savings than typically found in Americans with similar incomes (highly unlikely) or the source of the sales taxes is from government assistance.

Go look for the sites, and if you know anything about taxation in a couple of hours you can satisfy yourself that the above statement is true. Naturally, most people do not have the background knowledge or they are too lazy to do so.

 

[lifelessheap]

It baffles me to think that people actually think a wall will do anything to stop illegal immigration.
Humans will always find a way around a wall. And to assume that a wall will stop this kind of violence is just stupid. The U.S. would be better off spending the money on helping Mexico be a better place so people wouldn't need to flee to safer areas.

"Humans will always find a way around a wall."



So are you against fences in your yard? Do you think prisons shouldn't have walls?

Barriers work. Right now illegals can walk across a non existent border. They could not walk across a border wall.

DERP.

 

[MMAViewer]

"Humans will always find a way around a wall."



So are you against fences in your yard? Do you think prisons shouldn't have walls?

Barriers work. Right now illegals can walk across a non existent border. They could not walk across a border wall.

DERP.

Lol, non existent, you been brainwashed.
I dare you to try to walk across the border without an id and passport, video it and if you are successful I'll send you a hundred dollar bill.
You cry that there is no wall then ask me about a fence in my back yard? What is it, is there only a fence at our border or are you not satisfied with a fence and want a wall?
And are you saying Mexico is a prison or do you just not want brown people inside prison walls no matter what?

 

[Kframe]

long walls dont work, and are a tax revenue suck of epic proportions.

if you really dont want them here, all you have to do is crack down on people who hire them.

So we should stop all border enforcement then? If walls don't work why even have people patrolling it?

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Or stop buying their drugs

I only buy one drug that comes from South of the border anyway. I support real American businesses, my shit comes from Colorado.