NY Post : "Trump is totally right about the dangers of Medicare for All"

ssshhhhhh I never thought nor do I believe the Democrats would ever turn against Medicare-for-all. They're THAT stupid.

And the Post has said many unflattering things about Trump in the past so excuse me for not believing Quipling's "assessment" of the paper.
I suppose next you both will tell me that the Daily News is a right-wing publication too. {<hhh]

( @waiguoren , care to comment? )

EDIT : Well....I think it's long overdue to check Quipling and SaiWa into my Ignore List hotel. Liberal clowns are only so funny...until they open their mouths. Buh-Bye. (god, I love not being able to see their garbage anymore!!)

@waiguoren call this guy a pussy for ignoring folks and move on.
 
The rate in the US is offset by the millions on Medicaid, which is garbage. The times for those with their own insurance is far lower.

Therein lies the problem. Stats in America need to be split between those that have their own insurance, and those on government provided garbage to actually be able to see the differences.

Your ending comment is spot on, everywhere, sadly.
But, without that government provided garbage, what would be the alternative for those people? Health insurance premiums have been surging for years, and wages are pretty stagnant.
 
But, without that government provided garbage, what would be the alternative for those people? Health insurance premiums have been surging for years, and wages are pretty stagnant.

What did those people do before 1964? Humanity has a very long history without social programs...

Stop taxing people that make under a set amount and let them keep more of their money for the things they want to spend it on, or save it so they can get out of poverty!
 
What did those people do before 1964? Humanity has a very long history without social programs...

Stop taxing people that make under a set amount and let them keep more of their money for the things they want to spend it on, or save it so they can get out of poverty!
I empathize with that sentiment, as a fiscally responsible person, but how do you justify 100k medical bills? Lower income levels already pay pretty minimal taxes, unless you're proposing eliminating sales taxes. People used to have well-paying jobs (if they were white). You could walk out of high school and if you weren't belligerently drunk at work you could make a wage that could support a family, a house, car, dog, and occasionally the wise-cracking neighbor kid who raided your fridge and hit on your wife. Now you can be highly educated and still struggle to find anything other than contract work and abusive internships. There are a ton of factors (globalization, mechanization, people getting stupid degrees) but that's the way it is.
 
TS fucking demolished himself. Wow.

<{anton}><{anton}><{anton}>

NY times and NY post don't even sound alike. Probably can't tell the difference between the Washington Post and the Washington times.
 
I empathize with that sentiment, as a fiscally responsible person, but how do you justify 100k medical bills?

Why do "I" need to justify anything?

Why do automobiles cost what they cost?
Why does an iPhone cost over $600?
Why does Nike pay people 20 cents an hour to sell shoes for over $100 so they can pay Colin millions to protest in advertisements so people who hate capitalism will buy their shoes?!?

A service is not a thing you have a right to and as long as governments have their hand in an industry, you will never have competition...there is no reason for industry prices TO drop since companies can charge what they want and get it from the government...without it, companies will have to compete with each other for YOUR money and thus give YOU the best offer.

That can either drive prices down, or at least keep them from going up as fast.
 
Oh no I have a kidney stone, have to go the ER because the pain is too great. Spend 2 nights there, have to get it blasted and removed. Get home and after 2 weeks you owe 5 grand. Yes, other countries definitely want that system.

The above scenario was me last year, but lucky for me I have 5 grand laying around to pay the bill. Most people do not

The sad part is that you used this anecdote to illustrate excessive costs of the US system but it's actually a pretty sweet deal. Two night stay = 5 grand? Not bad.

I paid 1 grand so a doctor can look at my hurting finger for 40 seconds, determine it's a cellulitis, give me an antibiotic injection and a prescription, and send me home.

My mom had a very minor surgery that took one morning to perform. She refused to stay in the hospital past noon, refused even the water they gave her. Total bill was $30k. Her insurance covered most of it but she'll still end up paying $3-4k
 
Why do "I" need to justify anything?

Why do automobiles cost what they cost?
Why does an iPhone cost over $600?
Why does Nike pay people 20 cents an hour to sell shoes for over $100 so they can pay Colin millions to protest in advertisements so people who hate capitalism will buy their shoes?!?

A service is not a thing you have a right to and as long as governments have their hand in an industry, you will never have competition...there is no reason for industry prices TO drop since companies can charge what they want and get it from the government...without it, companies will have to compete with each other for YOUR money and thus give YOU the best offer.

That can either drive prices down, or at least keep them from going up as fast.
You're comparing frivolous material goods with people's health. If the government stepped out procedures would still be incredibly expensive, it would just be banks stepping in and trying to figure out what debt would break you and loaning you a dollar less than that. And you'd have to do it, because what's your alternative? Which they do already. Or they would tell you no, because you can't afford it, and if they give you THIS surgery for 15k they'd have to give it to everyone for that price. I have no illusions of the government's benevolence, but you seem to believe in the free market's ability to understand the value of life.
 
You're comparing frivolous material goods with people's health. If the government stepped out procedures would still be incredibly expensive, it would just be banks stepping in and trying to figure out what debt would break you and loaning you a dollar less than that. And you'd have to do it, because what's your alternative? Which they do already. Or they would tell you no, because you can't afford it, and if they give you THIS surgery for 15k they'd have to give it to everyone for that price. I have no illusions of the government's benevolence, but you seem to believe in the free market's ability to understand the value of life.

You seem to be forgetting this thing called HISTORY.

It was not until the great asshole known as Richard Nixon got involved with the Health Care system that prices started to skyrocket. Pre government involvement is a long history of health care costs in line with every single other industry on the planet.

Thanks for playing. Also, health care is not a right. Its a PRIVILEGE like everything else that requires money. Stop being over-privileged.
 
You seem to be forgetting this thing called HISTORY.

It was not until the great asshole known as Richard Nixon got involved with the Health Care system that prices started to skyrocket. Pre government involvement is a long history of health care costs in line with every single other industry on the planet.

Thanks for playing. Also, health care is not a right. Its a PRIVILEGE like everything else that requires money. Stop being over-privileged.
Because when government got involved people could receive treatment that couldn't previously, including more expensive, newer procedures. The rate of growth in costs has actually slowed recently, at least if you're looking at is as % of GDP, which you seem to be. I respect your opinion, but I think our views on the nature of health care aren't going to intersect at many points. Are food and clean water rights or privileges? Clean air? Because I put keeping people alive in that tier.
 
Because when government got involved people could receive treatment that couldn't previously, including more expensive, newer procedures.

No, the government got involved because the largest medical group at the time paid millions to lobby and get laws passed to block other companies from being in their region.

Medicare was not created until a couple years LATER and was only for those that WORKED and had the money taken out of their PAYCHECKS already...and thus, was a paid for thing.

Medicaid, also created AFTER the government fucked up the system, was so bad that it was near useless until almost 2 decades later and that was even only for those that met the requirements which left out most of those that actually NEEDED it. Even with the expansion of it with the Omnibus passing in 1990, many people were left off it...why the FUCK do you think Obama said the things he said to get his bill passed?!?

Because all this time, it wasnt serving most people and those it was serving it was serving POORLY...and why TODAY, you apes keep saying we need BETTER like those other countries, who have SHIT systems.

No government program anywhere in the world comes remotely close to what people who actually pay for there own insurance in America have. Not one.

Again, thanks for playing...next time, learn the topic first.
 
What did those people do before 1964? Humanity has a very long history without social programs...

Stop taxing people that make under a set amount and let them keep more of their money for the things they want to spend it on, or save it so they can get out of poverty!

They died.
 
They died.

Everyone died yet humanity lives!!!

We are an amazing species especially since the average lifespan of people in America has ALWAYS been increasing since data has been tracked...

Average in 1870 was between 30-40 years OF LIFE, 1900 it was 40-45, 1917 it was 45-50, 1930s it was 55-60...by the time the government fucked the system up the average lifespan of an American was 70 years old...almost DOUBLE what it was less than 100 years before.

https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

Pretty god damn amazing for people who did not have a birth right to health care lol...
 
The sad part is that you used this anecdote to illustrate excessive costs of the US system but it's actually a pretty sweet deal. Two night stay = 5 grand? Not bad.

I paid 1 grand so a doctor can look at my hurting finger for 40 seconds, determine it's a cellulitis, give me an antibiotic injection and a prescription, and send me home.

My mom had a very minor surgery that took one morning to perform. She refused to stay in the hospital past noon, refused even the water they gave her. Total bill was $30k. Her insurance covered most of it but she'll still end up paying $3-4k
none of that is a "good deal". I had a heart attack last year and was in hospital for a week and it didnt cost me a thing. Literally nothing. It was paid for through taxation. Nobody asked me about money, they just worried about caring for me.

thats a good deal
 
Everyone died yet humanity lives!!!

We are an amazing species especially since the average lifespan of people in America has ALWAYS been increasing since data has been tracked...

Average in 1870 was between 30-40 years OF LIFE, 1900 it was 40-45, 1917 it was 45-50, 1930s it was 55-60...by the time the government fucked the system up the average lifespan of an American was 70 years old...almost DOUBLE what it was less than 100 years before.

https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

Pretty god damn amazing for people who did not have a birth right to health care lol...

Yup and there has been 11 years added from that point onwards.
 
Don’t be fat
Don’t smoke

That’s it

You’ll be 100 minus genetic bad luck
 
Yup and there has been 11 years added from that point onwards.

Yep and that has nothing to do with the government getting involved. If anything, that increase has slowed. Only 11 years added after 60 years with the government in health care, but in the previous 60 about 25 years were added.
 
Yep and that has nothing to do with the government getting involved. If anything, that increase has slowed. Only 11 years added after 60 years with the government in health care, but in the previous 60 about 25 years were added.

You do realize that there is a limit how much life expectancy can be increased? most of the growth added before was from children not dying from common diseases.
 
You do realize that there is a limit how much life expectancy can be increased? most of the growth added before was from children not dying from common diseases.

1. Science, start reading it. There is no end to the amount of increases to life as they already know what causes aging...go look up CRISPR.

2. Did you just try to say that baby mortality kept the average human lifespan half what it actually was?!? Do you even read?

Go pick up any book written in the 1800s and youll see people in their 40s referred to as old and a person in their 50s and 60s as living well past their years.
 
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