Official AMD "Ryzen" CPU Discussion ***UPDATE #4: Intel Coffee Lake reviews are out!!***

Discussion in 'Video Game Forum' started by PEB, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Joe_Armstrong

    Joe_Armstrong Starfleet Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    12,295
    Likes Received:
    2,854
    Location:
    On the Balance
    I decided a 1060 or better, just in case hi res was needed one day.
    I compare the RX480 to a 1060, this will be a machine for a medium user.
    AMD Ryzen 7 1700X + 16gb should get this medium use on their way, right ?
    And 512 gb SSD is awesome
     
  2. Slobodan

    Slobodan Вело ;) Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    8,919
    Likes Received:
    112,666
    Location:
    Sydney
    I've got the 1060, it's a good card. Just make sure it's the 6gb version (the 3gb will be limited in the future)

    And yeah the 1700x is more than good enough
     
  3. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    How To Build A Gaming PC For Under $500 With AMD's New APUs
    I think Jefferz linked the early benchmarks in some thread already, but I looked more closely today, and decided this processor is amazing:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12425/marrying-vega-and-zen-the-amd-ryzen-5-2400g-review

    http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-2400G-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/m433194vs3920
    The above is UserBenchmark's CPU comparison tool, of course, and while the 2400G will get a little bit out of its superior graphics processing in their benchmarks, the boost is nominal, since everything about their CPU benchmark suite is for the purpose of comparing CPUs to CPUs. Just look at that! It performs only ~20% worse than the R5-1600X, and ~15% worse than the R5-1600. It trails by a mere 4% in single core performance as it is tuned to 3.9GHz which is already close to the ceiling for Ryzen. You could add a budget ~$30 cooler, but from the reviews I've perused, it doesn't look worth it, especially since the R5-2400G comes bundled with the Wraith cooler:
    http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-5-2400g-review,34.html

    Additionally, this onboard GPU is more powerful than the discrete RX 550 (*Edit* understandably, this depends on the CPU being paired; reviews pairing the i3-8100 with the GT 1030 have shown it ahead of the R5-2400G in a lot of games, and yet remains inferior to the more powerful version of the GTX 550).
    [​IMG]
    Firestrike scores of 3,200-3,600 appear to be the normal range. The RX 550 and GT 1030 lodge nearly identical scores of 3,660 and 3,650, respectively. Thus, MMO/F2P-class gaming is now under $500 again.

    In fact, the $400 range is achievable if you really stretch your dollars, and drop Windows (going Linux, such as Dota or CS:GO gamers might go, or installing it yourself from another source). This build doesn't include an SSD, or a keyboard and mouse, but you could opt for a 250GB SSD instead of the 1TB HDD for ~$30 more if you preferred that to adding one outright. Finally, it would definitely be preferable to upgrade the RAM to 3000 MHz sticks due to the significant boost afforded to Ryzen performance as seen in the chart above:
    ($400) https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Jb8FfH

    These will give you an idea of how they perform in AAA gaming (above their intended practical performance purpose):







    The R5-2400G will also max League of Legends in Ultra 1080p to the 144Hz ceiling. Normally, I'd balk at even offering a comparison with a crappy GT 1030 in it, since those are such a terrible value and offer so little for their cost over the onboard GPUs, but first, we're talking about the baseline possible price in a viable gaming PC, and second, even if we weren't, the fact that the typical mainstream discrete GPUs are starting at $150 or more these days when normally they start around $80-$90 means even in terms of value the GT 1030 is a relevant GPU for comparison in this market moment. A GTX 1050 or even an RX 550(!) will cost you nearly as much as the R5-2400G itself.

    I also want to point out that the R5-2400G can be expected to enjoy longer relevance as a gaming CPU than the Pentium due to the fact it is quad core, not dual core, and can multi-thread, so it has a lot of power left in the tank despite its single thread performance disadvantage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  4. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    19,021
    Likes Received:
    19,894
    There's been a couple of reviewers that have said that the Wraith is reaching it's upper limits when you overclock both. Dual channel ram looks like it is a must as well. The loan a cpu program to update your bios is killer.
     
  5. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    Yeah, I figured it was already bundled with the Wraith, but my point hinges on the fact the gap between the Wraith and the sensible budget range of aftermarket coolers ($25-$35) isn't so great that one should expect them to do much better; especially with the budget hardware for the bottom-barrel build I scraped together. Furthermore, you'd end up running into clearance issues with the cheaper MicroATX cases, and I didn't care to double check all that.
    I wasn't aware of this issue, but yeah, that's pretty crappy. All the latest boards that don't require updates should start coming out in the next few months, though, so hopefully this doesn't remain a negative.
     
  6. Quipling

    Quipling Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    12,609
    Location:
    purgatory

    That looks especially great for people building new pcs for light gaming. I'm actually thinking of recommending them to a friend.

    Thoughts on whether it is reasonable to upgrade with a GPU later?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  7. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    19,021
    Likes Received:
    19,894
    Different ram speeds tested on an R3 2200G.


    @Madmick :eek:

    The video card in my htpc quit, so I'm on the hunt and I was considering one of these APU's. I have spare DDR4, but the ram I have is 2133 and it can't be overclocked.
     
  8. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    Yeah, it's nuts, and right now I'm seeing only ~$15 starting premium between 8GB of the cheapest 2133 sticks and 3000 sticks of the same timings/latency.

    Dollar for dollar that's the cheapest upgrade to processing performance in hardware right now. You couldn't pray for leaps like that between CPUs $15 apart. It seems like RAM has been becoming more and more important with each subsequent generation.
     
  9. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
  10. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    19,021
    Likes Received:
    19,894
  11. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    I must admit cynicism. It appears to be me that the ~4.2GHz ceiling on Ryzen is architectural, unfortunately, so at this point the only improvements I expect on it will be at stock frequency or achieved with price drops.

    In other words, I predict this will be v1 of what we saw with AMD's former architecture (which didn't have this hard ceiling) when they released the FX-9xxx chips that improved on the latest FX-8350 refresh of the line in no concrete way.
     
  12. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    19,021
    Likes Received:
    19,894
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    From OC3D

    The R5 1500x being 4/8 and the R5 1600 being 6/12 is weird. They should have made the 1600 an R7.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  13. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    Sorry, @Quipling, I was peeling through old notices yesterday and today when I came back to catch up on the week. I never realized I missed this post.
    https://products.amd.com/en-us/search/APU/AMD-Ryzen™-Processors/AMD-Ryzen™-5-Processor-with-Radeon™-Vega-Graphics/AMD-Ryzen™-5-2400G/243
    Unlike past APUs the 2400G & 2200G don't support "dual graphics", so don't expect to Crossfire. But so long as the motherboard has the BIOS option to disable onboard graphics you should be able to use a discrete GPU (NVIDIA or AMD). This is only possible manually because it doesn't support "Switchable Graphics Mode". This user's Gigabyte board supports turning off the iGPU:
    https://community.amd.com/thread/226352

    I think it's a viable strategy. I grasp the idea is that you get in for the lowest baseline possible, and then later sensibly upgrade to a discrete GPU since graphical performance ages far more rapidly than anything else. I don't see that CPU lasting more than one upgrade cycle (of ~2-3 years). Still, yes, that's one possible GPU upgrade before retiring the CPU-MoBo and moving on to a new build.

    The alternative is to go with the i3-8100 (or 8350K) and pair it with one of the cheapest available options out there like one from AMD's R7 lineup (250X/260/265/270/360/370) or the NVIDIA GT 1030. Obviously, the entry models to the RX or GTX series would be highly preferably, and right now I see an RX 550 2GB (512) for $97, so that coupled with the i3-8100 runs $210 total, and thus carries ~$45 premium over the R5-2400G.

    The 2400G only runs 6%-8% slower than the i3-8100 per thread, and is only 15% slower at stock in the gamer sweet spot of quad core performance. That's barely any difference when comparing across generations. Furthermore, it can overclock on any board made for it, with its stock fan, and easily make up this distance. Addtionally, the 2400G's ability to hyperthread will also elongate its lifespan with the better optimized and most demanding titles. It may actually enjoy a longer lifespan as a relevant gaming CPU. Its greatest deficit as a CPU is its paltry L3 cache, but the i3's barely have more (and have inferior L2 cache, themselves).

    Still, it's really tough to swallow that strategy rather than push advice to spend just a bit more at startup (effectively the cost of your chosen GPU) to secure the i5-8400 for greater CPU longevity when it is shitting on an R5-1600 overclocked to the 4GHz Ryzen wall in games <Eek2.0><Eek2.0><Eek2.0>:


    And most of those games are already from the crop of the best multi-thread scalers. So I see at least two upgrade cycles in the shelf life of this stock i5-8400.

    From a purist gaming point of view, especially for non-overclockers, in terms of value and value longevity, this appears to me to be arguably the best CPU offering in a decade: since the release of the i5-760 in 2008, and the i5-2500K after it in 2011.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  14. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    AMD and Partners Slash Prices on Select Ryzen & Ryzen Threadripper CPUs
    AMD Threadripper Sale.png
     
  15. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    19,021
    Likes Received:
    19,894
    Newegg had the 2400g on sale for $150 a couple of days ago.

    Tech Guy on YouTube has been posting daily videos testing the APUs on different games.
     
  16. PEB

    PEB Atomic Butt Drop Champ :)

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Messages:
    12,192
    Likes Received:
    6,875
    Location:
    SPACE THE FINAL FRONTIER :)
  17. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    So I don't know why in the hell this benchmark didn't come through any of my feeds a few months ago, but I'm addled and a bit upset.

    That Intel + AMD project @PEB and I have mentioned in this thread appears to be the upcoming "Kaby Lake G processors (high power)":
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake#List_of_Kaby_Lake_G_processors_(high_power)
    These combine the Intel Kaby Lake CPU architecture with an onboard AMD Vega M GPU.

    The i5-8305G and the i7-8705G, which is the least of these i7 processors, so will likely be the one we actually see in shipped units, and shares the same GPU (with identical clockings) to the i5, both boast graphical performance just barely inferior to a GTX 1050 (Mobile): <Eek2.0><Eek2.0><Eek2.0>
    Early benchmark released for Intel's new Core i7-8705G CPU with on-board AMD Radeon Vega graphics
    Intel Kaby Lake G Processor with AMD Vega.png



    Additionally, these Kaby Lake G processors are already showing up in benchmarks like Passmark.
    -- Overall: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
    -- Single Thread: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

    UserBenchmark only has a single benchmark recorded for the i7-8705G, so this could be misleading, but comparing this to the most popular commercial laptop CPUs from the past several years (the ones they actually sell) in terms of CPU performance using UserBenchmark's "Effective Speed" the i7-8705G is...
    http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/453718/IntelR-CoreTM-i7-8705G-CPU---310GHz
    • DESKTOP CPUs
      • 33% inferior to the i9-7980XE
      • 23% inferior to the i7-8700K
      • 2% inferior to the i5-8400
      • 3% inferior to the Ryzen-1800X
      • 12% superior to the i3-8100
      • 53% superior to the Pentium G4560
    • LAPTOP CPUs
      • 26% superior to the i7-7700HQ*
      • 32% superior to the i7-8550U
      • 40% superior to the i5-8250U
      • 44% superior to the i7-6700HQ*
      • 64% superior to the i5-7500U
      • 81% superior to the i5-7200U
      • 89% superior to the i7-6500U
      • 109% superior to the i5-6200U
    *The "HQ" series CPUs are gamer-class laptop CPUs traditionally seen in units marketed to our niche


    Yeah, so...I don't know what to say. Normally, I'd be excited. But...I have a sinking feeling, mixed feelings, here. These numbers are simply too good. We all knew this was coming, but I didn't expect it this quickly. I'm not sure how much longer our desktop gaming culture is going to be relevant.

    VR seems like the best hope to prolong the relevance, but between:
    (1) laptop CPU power like the above,
    (2) laptop GPU power brought by the GTX 1080 Max-Q (Mobile),
    (3) the fact they're now stuffing desktop DDR4-RAM into laptops instead of LPDDR3, and finally
    (4) NVMe/m.2 SSDs instead of crappy extra slow 5400RPM thin laptop HDDs
    ...they will have nearly caught the best gaming performance the market can offer in a single GPU build once they combine them. Only high-end streamers, who require more CPU cores, will really demand more horsepower.

    Desktop relevance in any consumer market isn't long for this world.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  18. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    19,021
    Likes Received:
    19,894
    Fucking Intel and their naming schemes. Jesus christ.
     
  19. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    19,021
    Likes Received:
    19,894
    Ryzen 2nd gen unboxing videos are out.
     
  20. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    36,330
    Likes Received:
    23,901
    Location:
    NorCal
    Good to know, but who cares?

    We've all been to this rodeo before. They'll be factory overclocked versions of the same processors limited to the same ~4.1GHz wall. Doesn't seem to be much point.
     

Share This Page