*Official Mayweather-Pacquiao Discussion*

[Boxer Rebellion]

For years we had to put up with the spectacle of a backpedalling "fighter" pitty-patting his way to supposed pound-for-pound dominance. For years we were made to believe that a match where both pugilists looked like they had done nothing more strenuous than a light sauna was a "fight."

For years we were told that only the purists and real fans could appreciate Mayweather's technique. We tried to convince ourselves of this even as our eyelids grew heavy watching Mayweather "fight."

No more.

Pacman has demonstrated what true boxing is. Pacman represents boxing's best hope to return to the bloody glory that typified its greatest era.

No more are we forced to uphold a loudmouthed ring ballerina as the representative of our sport. Now we have a true icon, a fearsome destroyer in the illustrious tradition of Johnson, Dempsey, Frazier and Tyson; a two-fisted batterer who will ram home to the masses that, by the admission of MMA's own proponents, boxing is the most brutal, dangerous, savage -- and glorious -- combat sport on earth.

Bert Sugar on Pac-PBF:

Bert Sugar is a legendary boxing historian. He has written over 80 books, mostly on boxing history, including Great Fights, Bert Sugar on Boxing, 100 Years of Boxing, Sting like a Bee, The Ageless Warrior and Boxing's Greatest Fighters. Sugar was called "The Greatest Boxing Writer of the 20th Century" by the International Veterans Boxing Association. He has also appeared in several films playing himself, including Night and the City, The Great White Hype and Rocky Balboa. He has been "one of the foremost historians alive," by the Boston Globe newspaper.

[When asked if PBF is an all-time great] That's an excellent question and I hate you for asking it because I don't know. I do think that Floyd has marquee wins but not classic wins.

[When asked if Pacquiao is an all-time great] He's easily in the top 20 all time list. [This is] something only done in respect to the number of divisions by Henry Armstrong... This is equal. I have Armstrong in No. 2 in the all time list. So you gotta give Pacquiao a high place on the Pantheon.

Ring Magazine on PBF

Ring Ratings Update

Mayweather has never faced a true welterweight anywhere as good as Cotto or Margarito, and in his only fight since his lengthy layoff he faced a blown-up lightweight.

Sports Illustrated on Pac-PBF

Sports Illustrated:

Floyd Mayweather must face Manny Pacquiao or risk legacy - Bryan Armen Graham - SI.com

....And so the moment of truth has come. Floyd Mayweather must fight Manny Pacquiao or risk a permanent stain on his legacy. It seemed a done deal in December when the parties quickly moved past traditional sticking points like purse split, glove weight and ring size. But negotiations went kerplunk Wednesday thanks to Floyd's unprecedented demand for random blood testing all the way until the fight. After Team Mayweather turned down a series of reasonable alternatives from Pacquiao's camp, Bob Arum's comments that "Floyd never really wanted the fight" echoed the suspicions of millions.

Why wouldn't Mayweather want to fight Pacquaio and bank a surefire payday in the neighborhood of $40 million?

Perhaps, as some critics insist, because Floyd believes his legacy is dependent on his undefeated record. Of course, there's nothing wrong with an undefeated record. But pure boxing fans respect the men who test themselves frequently against the best available opponents. The wins and losses become secondary plot points.

Mayweather, conversely, views the undefeated record as his essential selling point -- and many believe he'll stop at nothing to preserve it. Over the past decade, Mayweather has been able to sidestep opponents he's been loath to face. But no sleight of hand can divert the public's eyes from Pacquiao-Mayweather, perhaps the biggest megafight since Leonard-Hearns.

Floyd tried to divert the blame Thursday in a written statement. "I am ready to fight and sign the contract," he said. "Manny needs to stop making his excuses, step up and fight." But history shows us one fighter who's dodged a handful of difficult fights and another who's built a legacy on taking the toughest opponents available in any weight class within driving distance.

If Pacquiao-Mayweather never happens, the perception will be it's because Floyd Mayweather didn't want it to happen, regardless of the culpability behind the scenes. Floyd must consent to terms with Pacquiao or risk being remembered less for the fortysomething fights he'll have won upon retirement and more for the one he turned his back on.

Al Bernstein on Pac-PBF

Al Bernstein is a respected boxing writer who has been reporting since the 70s. In 1988, he won the Sam Taub Award for excellence in boxing journalism.

January 13, 2010
THE BALL IS IN FLOYD'S COURT
By Al Bernstein

...It seems patently obvious to me that Floyd and his minions killed the Pacquiao fight. Exactly how and why they killed it remains murky. But, the bottom line is a the fight was basically a done deal before they decided to inject the demands for blood testing into the picture. Here are some facts.

Manny Pacquiao has never tested positive in a drug test.

Manny Pacquiao is one of the hardest working and most disciplined fighters in the sport.

Manny Pacquiao’s success as he moved up in weight has been fueled mostly by a change in style and tactics rather than added strength.

One of the most astonishing things to me is that fact number three keeps getting ignored by the folks who somehow believe that all of a sudden it’s reasonable to assume that Pacquiao above all other boxers needs a special set of testing rules to participate in a big fight.

When Pacquiao was fighting in those legendary wars with Erik Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera and Juan Manuel Marquez in the 126-130 pound range he was a completely different fighter. He walked straight in and threw mostly jabs and straight left hands. He would occasionally mix in an upper cut here and there, and very seldom a powerful right hook. He seldom punched in combinations and used little lateral movement. Given those deficiencies it is actually fairly amazing that against three hall of fame fighters, Marquez, Morales and Barrera, he went 5-1-1. It’s a testimony to his power and toughness.

When he decided to move up in weight, with the help of Roach, Pacquiao did what few boxers do at any age---he reinvented himself. He became the very definition of a boxer-puncher. The Pacquiao that fought David Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto at weights from 135 to 147 used hand and foot speed, an infinitely better right hand, and better defense to go along with power. Anybody who professes to know boxing should have been able to see that.

No performance enhancing drugs can change your technique. Even though he stopped all of those opponents fighting at weights higher than he had previously fought at—it was not power that made the difference. The difference was speed, ring generalship, combination punching and a vastly improved defense. Anyone that suggests otherwise and really believes it is stupid when it comes to understanding boxing.

I have a theory (and it is only a theory—I do not have an unnamed source like one of my broadcasting colleagues professes to have in the mysterious Pacquiao e-mail conspiracy) on how this blood testing thing developed. I would suggest that it started as a ploy to unsettle Pacquiao—rattle his chain a bit. But because the whole thing was somewhat clumsily executed in public, this ploy developed a life of its own and then Team Mayweather was stuck with their disingenuous position and had to ride it out.

Now in the nuclear rubble left behind, it is the Pacquiao team that moved more quickly and decisively to stake out the boxing high ground. Top Rank worked diligently and swiftly to create a competitive prize fight in an exotic and exciting venue. By accepting Joshua Clottey, a big, strong and skilled welterweight as his next opponent, Pacquiao and Top Rank have played to Pacquiao’s ultimate virtue—that he has always been willing to fight tough opponents. And the reverse of that is Mayweather’s public achilles heel. The net effect of that is to further suggest that if finger pointing is to be done at anyone for avoiding the mega-fight, it ought not be wagged in Pacquiao’s direction.

The ball is now in Floyd’s and Golden Boy’s court. One problem Golden Boy and Floyd face is that Top Rank is well equipped to hold its own in the pay per view battle even if they lose HBO as a distributor. And the other problem for Floyd’s team, is that finding a really good opponent might be tough. There is a healthy skepticism about Floyd continually battling men coming up in weight to fight him, and Malignaggi, Campbell and even the talented Tim Bradley would fall into that categtory. This will especially be highlighted since Manny is taking on a genuine welterweight contender in Clottey.

 

[Riffmeister11]

Let's just hope that if Manny goes on a beats Ricky the same way he beat David Diaz and Oscar, Floyd comes out of the curtain and fights Pac once and for all.

 

[Steve Del Fierro]

Agreed 100%.

 

[Tea Cake]

what makes it better is that pacquiao barely shit talks, wait, he doesnt shit talk at all
pure class, religious, loves his country
cant ask for more

 

[Ring>>Cage]

Forget Hatton, PBF needs to face Pac next

 

[David Bolton]

Oscar looked pretty damn shot to me.

 

[Frankie Carbone]

Pacquiao vs Mayweather next would be great but it would be gigantic if Pacquiao knocks out Hatton and fights Mayweather next..

Pacquiao out did what Mayweather was able to do against Oscar and if he could out do what he did against Hatton...

Fight has to happen..

 

[Boxer Rebellion]

Oscar looked pretty damn shot to me.

What a coincidence that he only started looking shot when Manny was slamming that left hand into his face, and that he hasn't looked shot in any of his fights except with Manny.

Actually I don't disagree - Oscar's shot NOW. Manny has made Oscar shot. Few fighters can rise up mentally and physically after being so utterly dominated and battered, and I doubt that Oscar can do it.

 

[LanePratley]

What a coincidence that he only started looking shot when Manny was slamming that left hand into his face, and that he hasn't looked shot in any of his fights except with Manny.

Actually I don't disagree - Oscar's shot NOW. Manny has made Oscar shot. Few fighters can rise up mentally and physically after being so utterly dominated and battered, and I doubt that Oscar can do it.

I think the idea of Oscar being the same as when he fought PBF went out the window after the Steve Forbes fight (especially considering the fact that Berto almost shut him out). As dominant as he was he showed plenty of signs of slowing down.

Manny kicked his ass, but do we have to paint a picture of Manny beating a prime Oscar? Its not like Oscar would be the first fighter to hit a wall in the tail end of his career.

I'm sure you disagree, and I agree with you to a less exaggerated extent.

 

[xXSpawnXx]

Sure Mayweather is irrelevant. That's why everybody is asking for Pac-Mayweather bout right lol?

 

[battouter]

pbf is a self proclaimed piece of shit... if they ever get to fight, i hope pac knocks the pretty boy out of his head

 

[xXSpawnXx]

what makes it better is that pacquiao barely shit talks, wait, he doesnt shit talk at all
pure class, religious, loves his country
cant ask for more

The shit talk is all staged to bring in the pro wrestling audience, watch pro wrestling for a year and you'll understand why Mayweather brings home the bacon. Pro wrestling still has huge PPV's, right up there with Boxing and MMA, we're living in a country where celebrities are seen as god like, especially Movie stars who bring dramas, characters, personalities in their form of entertainment. Even Muhammed Ali admitted he got the "Big Ego, Shit talking" attitude to draw in audiences, and he got it from Gorgeous George. People need to think outside the box.

 

[xXSpawnXx]

pbf is a self proclaimed piece of shit... if they ever get to fight, i hope pac knocks the pretty boy out of his head

Tell us how you really feel.

 

[LanePratley]

Just to elaborate, Freddy Roach hasnt really been shy about saying that a big reason the fight happened was because he knew that Oscar had definitely declined.

Freddie Roach: "I have confidence, I have said this before that at 147 lbs in his prime, Oscar is too big. But he's not in his prime anymore. Manny showed me in his last fight against Diaz that he's capable of fighting the perfect fight, and he'll need to fight like that again to beat Oscar."

Granted, Oscar really shouldnt have declined to the point where he was getting hit with clean shots almost at will and getting pitched a shut out. Really is no denying how good Pacman looked. Wasnt really a question of if Oscar had begun to fade, Oscar was suppost to be able to beat him regardless.

PBF's "legacy" is intact, despite how much everybody loves to hate him.

 

[francis_kreuer]

manny is relentless

 

[prontostar]

freddie apparently gave someone more credit than he deserved.

 

[Phanekim]

only thing now is pacquiao has the drawing power of not only the filipinos but others around the world. He can dictate the terms for how the fight is gonna be fought...aherm...reyes gloves.

 

[erznana**]

Well said TS. Lets see how America takes to the Pacman now that the Golden Boy is pretty much done. I don't think America will pay too much attention to him nor will he have the crossover appeal that DLH had.

 

[Sinister]

For years we had to put up with the spectacle of a backpedalling "fighter" pitty-patting his way to supposed pound-for-pound dominance. For years we were made to believe that a match where both pugilists looked like they had done nothing more strenuous than a light sauna was a "fight."

After bullying a smaller, undersized Hatton, we were forced to watch this braggart retire and proclaim himself the greatest of all time.

For years we were told that to like Pacquiao was to like merely raw speed and power, and that only the purists and real fans could appreciate Mayweather's technique. We tried to convince ourselves of this even as our eyelids grew heavy watching Mayweather "fight."

No more.

Pacman has demonstrated what true boxing is. Pacman represents boxing's best hope to return to the bloody glory that typified its greatest era.

Let's dispel the myths.

Oscar was not "shot" when he fought Manny - Manny just made him look that way. This is the same Oscar who recently held the supposed great Mayweather to a split decision. The same Oscar who roughed up Mayweather, who landed hard shots on Mayweather all night, who Mayweather "beat" by virtue of landing .001% more punches than Oscar did.

The same Oscar who Manny absolutely dominated and destroyed in 8 rounds.

No more are we forced to uphold a loudmouthed ring ballerina as the representative of our sport. Now we have a true icon, a fearsome destroyer in the illustrious tradition of Johnson, Dempsey, Frazier and Tyson; a two-fisted batterer who will ram home to the masses that, by the admission of MMA's own proponents, boxing is the most brutal, dangerous, savage -- and glorious -- combat sport on earth.

The funniest thing about all this blow-hard bullshit is that it was the same crap that was said about guys like Robinson and Ali. Especially the back-pedaling ballerina stuff with regard to Ali, who is now regarded as one of the braver Fighters of all time by the general public. Robinson was also known as a braggart, a womanizer, etc. etc.

No one who has watched Pacquiao's career since the 3rd Morales fight should have said a single thing about his ability (or lack thereof) to Box. How quickly people forget that this is a guy who mauled Marco Antonio Barrera in one Fight, and then turned around and out-boxed him in the second Fight. When you out-box arguably one of the better Boxers of the generation, you're no-longer one dimensional.

As far as pure Boxing goes, did you even see the Mayweather/DLH Fight or are you just reciting numbers you looked up? The last 4 rounds of that Fight were absolutely clinical for Floyd, and an indisputably fine display of the science of pugilism. And it's funny how that back-pedaling ballerina absolutely smashed guys like Corrales and Hatton, and put on one of the most vicious displays of everything against Gatti. If you don't like Floyd, great, and sure there were plenty Fights where he did mostly what it took to win securely, but it's not as if he never stood his ground.

That said, some of us have had Pac as the #1 P4P since before Floyd retired, and we didn't need a hammering of a guy who has only been relevant because of his box office appeal, trying to make a weight he hadn't in 6 years to know how good Pac really was.

Pacquiao has sealed Oscar's irrelevance as an active Fighter, nothing more.

 

[devante]

i dnt think u can compare the two fights, the oscar who fought pbf was a yr younger, actually had fought somewhat recently and hadn't dropped to a weight he hadn't fought in 6yrs. At 154 i think oscar performs better; an might beat pac, there is a reason roach insisted on him fighting at 147.

oscar was never great in that he never beat a great fighter in his prime; he has fought alot of great fighters (hof) and for the most part never been dominated or beaten up, tito didnt do it..mosley didnt....pbf didnt....hopkins stopped him.

all things being equal this fight would be a mismatch, the diff being that oscar size was supposed to be able to use his size/strength to win.

but based on records and dominance and stage of career pac had it all

i still think pbf gives pac fits and beats him; an surprisingly i think hatton can give pacman a go, seriously.