***Official NBA Off-season Discussion v8.0 Kneeling is for peasants***

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Walton sured pulled a fast one there huh...

Hey, best team in the league, this career loser we got here is WAY better than he was the past 10 years, how about you take him, because uhhh... well, yea he's great, just have him.

Sorry Gunt, I'll take my eyes, the stats, and every other metric you can find over the past 10 years that show Nick Young is one of the worst basketball players you can put on the floor.

He's great for tanking and getting lotto picks tho... All-star level tank player.
 
Almighty Angus said:
lmao @ admitting you don't understand what value of replacement player means, it's easily the most well known and best used analytic stat.
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Have you actually looked into the variables and values assigned to it? If not, then you really don't understand what the number means either. You are just looking at what the mid point is and the extremes of the scale and evaluating where a player falls in the order without knowing how it's determined.

Also never said Nick Young passes the eye test lol.
 
he's literally leading the league in OBPM, TS, and EFG after one game on a team that doesn't let scrubs just chuck it up

I completely understand what you're saying, but that's not unfolding. at all. An elite catch and shoot 3 pt shooter now on a team where he'll never see so many open shots.....

Nobody is arguing he's some great player, but he is absolutely a great fit for that bench.

The league's worse player doesn't also have a PER that's just below the league average of 15, either
what about the GS front office leads people to believe they just pick up the 'worst player in NBA history?'

anyone?
 
HunterSdVa29 said:
he's literally leading the league in OBPM, TS, and EFG after one game on a team that doesn't let scrubs just chuck it up

I completely understand what you're saying, but that's not unfolding. at all. An elite catch and shoot 3 pt shooter now on a team where he'll never see so many open shots.....

Nobody is arguing he's some great player, but he is absolutely a great fit for that bench.

The league's worse player doesn't also have a PER that's just below the league average of 15, either
what about the GS front office leads people to believe they just pick up the 'worst player in NBA history?'

anyone?
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You really touting one game averages now? lol

You've truly lost it.

Nick Young will prove me right (once again) and prove you wrong (once again) as the season goes on.

Can't wait for that shiny negative VORP score to overtake Bassy Telfair for the title of worst NBA player ever.
 
HunterSdVa29 said:
just shows how flawed RTG stats are...
1) boozer was top 10 in the league 3 times, was second one time. One of the worst individual defenders ever
2) young also led the team in ORTG.......

Walton contacted Kerr before the move, and told him how pleasantly surprised they were w/ his D. So either they were surprised he wasn't literally the worst defender ever, or the numbers are misleading as defensive stats that don't count are notoriously hard to quantify
https://clutchpoints.com/steve-kerr-consulted-luke-walton-warriors-signed-nick-young/
http://www.lakersnation.com/luke-walton-says-lakers-will-miss-nick-youngs-defense/2016/12/01/
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I'm kind of curious how VORP accurately ranks defensive players vs offensive players across all positions, what do they do that so accurately determines value? Westbrick's vorp is twice that of Chef Curry, hes twice as valuable as Curry over the average scrub I guess. Is Curry also only just marginally more valuable than DeMarcus Cousins? Waiting on Cuminhair to clear this up for me.

Apparently KD is only .3 vorp units better than Kyle Lowry. I'm really getting accurately informed now!!
 
Luminaire said:
You really touting one game averages now? lol

You've truly lost it.

Nick Young will prove me right (once again) and prove you wrong (once again) as the season goes on.

Can't wait for that shiny negative VORP score to overtake Bassy Telfair for the title of worst NBA player ever.
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tbh i'm just bored at work and seeing how far I can take this haha

i'm not even saying you're wrong, but 'worst player ever' is beyond hyperbolic no matter what VORP says

the worst player, IMO, of recent years is clearly Byron Mullens
 
monster zero said:
I'm kind of curious how VORP accurately ranks defensive players vs offensive players across all positions, what do they do that so accurately determines value? Westbrick's vorp is twice that of Chef Curry, hes twice as valuable as Curry over the average scrub I guess. Is Curry also only just marginally more valuable than DeMarcus Cousins? Waiting on Cuminhair to clear this up for me.
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per bbref:
If one were to define a "replacement level" for offense and defense, it would be -1.7 on offense and -0.3 on defense – though the concept of replacement level for components doesn't necessarily make sense. Almost all point guards would be well below the -0.3 level on defense, since a guard's role is primarily to focus on offense. The reverse is true of post players. It's an interesting exercise, but ultimately OVORP and DVORP aren't that useful, and will not be displayed here.

So, to calculate VORP, the formula is simply: [BPM – (-2.0)] * (% of minutes played)*(team games/82). This yields the number of points the player is producing over a replacement player, per 100 TEAM possessions over an entire season.

As an example: In 2014, LeBron had a BPM of +8.9, and he played 73% of Miami's minutes. His VORP, then, would be [8.9 – (-2.0)] * 0.73 * 82/82 = 8.0."

as it's based off BPM, there really is no way to measure the defensive impact besides counting stats, hence DBPM is simply the overall BPM minus the Offesnsive BPM (there's no formula for it). the overall BPM formula is:
Raw O/D BPM = a*ReMPG + b*ORB% + c*DRB% + d*STL% + e*BLK% + f*AST% - g*USG%*TO% +
h*USG%*(1-TO%)*[2*(TS% - TmTS%) + i*AST% + j*(3PAr - Lg3PAr) - k] + l*sqrt(AST%*TRB%)
so usage, to/rebound/steal/blk/ast %, TS %, 3pt attempt rate, etc...

There's nothing there about Defensive FG% differential, or as far as I can tell any roster splits for on/off court defensive impact
Since Nick Young gets like no rebounds, or assists, or barely any steals or blocks it's no wonder he looks so bad by that specific metric
 
HunterSdVa29 said:
who you guys got in the games tonight?
spurs/wolves could be a pretty good game
i'd be down to watch MIA/ORL too
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For sure watching Spurs/Wolves as long as I can stay awake. lot of interesting storylines with the twolves this year
 
HunterSdVa29 said:
tbh i'm just bored at work and seeing how far I can take this haha

i'm not even saying you're wrong, but 'worst player ever' is beyond hyperbolic no matter what VORP says

the worst player, IMO, of recent years is clearly Byron Mullens
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The cold hard truth is no one on this board can rank the worst player of recent years because it would be a 10 mpg scrub bench player on a team ranked 28th-30th that we never watch or even know the name of, unfortunately.

I personally see Nick Young having a productive season this year in his role. It being his only probably chance to win a ring, being the 7th option, being kept in place by KD, Drey and Curry. He lived out his Kobe chucking dreams on the Lakes, now he's going to be brought down to earth by GSW and put in his place.
 
Nick Young brought back the Clips against Canphis in their 1st playoff series. He was shooting 3s even if the lane was open. I think they were down 15 and came back to win.

Clipster legend next to Piatkowski and Maggette.
 
PaleMoonlight said:
Nick Young brought back the Clips against Canphis in their 1st playoff series. He was shooting 3s even if the lane was open. I think they were down 15 and came back to win.

Clipster legend next to Piatkowski and Maggette.
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They were down 20 in the fourth.
 
Nick Young is nothing but a role player. Warriors signed him just cause he can shoot 3's. They will sign anybody who can

He will have games where he shootings 8/10 and he will have games where he shoots 1/10

His defense is suspect at best. He was one of the better defenders on the lakers but trust me thats not saying much

I have no idea about his advanced stats and I dont really need to, to know what type of player he is
 
Lol, we're still discussing Swaggy?

He has a job because he has talent. Every coach looks at him and thinks they can be the one to make him stop being a can 80% of the time and harness that other 20%. They're all wrong. He's a can. He doesn't want to play intelligently or consistently. He wants to see his highlights on ESPN.
 
Wow, Wizcans play sloppy in the first quarter. Shocking.
 
I do like the way Gortat is moving. He looks in better shape than last year where I felt he really underperformed.
 
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