Official Women's Division Discussion #25

[DonCarlos]

Ariane by ass kicking

If this is true, that's a great move for Lipski. KSW don't have great history with wmma, sure they did invest in Kowalkiewicz, and they tried with Ariane, but apart of that they doin nuthin with their WFLW.

 

[teddy078]

If Dana does want a new Brazilian needle mover then why not Renata Souza? I'd have put her on the main card, for sure it was a predictable squash match but the fans love that kind of thing and the girl does have a big personality. Someone did mention her potty mouth in the post-fights, so there is that.

She's a non-white butch lesbian who doesn't wear makeup & bikinis, UFC isn't capable of marketing her unless she goes to the freakshow route aka Cyborg route.

 

[Rizz]

She's a non-white butch lesbian who doesn't wear makeup & bikinis, UFC isn't capable of marketing her unless she goes to the freakshow route aka Cyborg route.

Good point. My next thought is has anyone ever been able to market someone with those qualities? If not then whose fault is it? The market, the promoter or the fighter?

 

[Kaybee]

MRW I see that Violence Queen is now in the big leagues

1 down, 2 to go.
Let's hope for Kuma and Mazo in the UFC soon!

 

[Rizz]

MRW I see that Violence Queen is now in the big leagues

1 down, 2 to go.
Let's hope for Kuma and Mazo in the UFC soon!

I agree! In a few months 125 will be the clear cut second best female division. I personally think it is now but its still standing on unsteady ground so I will give it more time to mature.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Good point. My next thought is has anyone ever been able to market someone with those qualities? If not then whose fault is it? The market, the promoter or the fighter?

I would say it is a combination of all three. Some people just do not have much mass appeal due to purely superficial reasons. (most fans think an inch deep - at best - about most athletes and this is true of most sports) The UFC has never shown the ability to market anyone on their own, and when they try they seem to look for Ken and Barbie dolls and we have seen how that turns out. It does not help that Dana is, well, Dana. Utterly childish and thoroughly unprofessional. To a degree a fighter is going to have to do things to help market themselves. Some just refuse to but have something special that transcends this. Others suffer for their lack of willingness to do promotional work (Stipe, for example).

The world of MMA is still pretty much a goat-fuck from a professional standpoint. Shortly, I expect, there will come a time when it has to decide if it truly wants to go more mainstream and lose the "hard-cores" or stay loyal to its base.

I am fairly certain I know what route they will pick.

 

[Dr John Smith]

Ariane by ass kicking

Sucks for Macedo, but Lipski making her move to the big league more than makes up for it and just made my day. Kuma, come and join the party!

 

[thatdude21601]

Alyssa Garcia probably to Invicta?

 

[LilMountain]

Good point. My next thought is has anyone ever been able to market someone with those qualities? If not then whose fault is it? The market, the promoter or the fighter?

I would say Nunes has a brief run when she was smashing people to the title, but then her pull out vs Val triggered those for who such things are an issue and she's still recovering PR wise

 

[Eater of Souls]

I would say Nunes has a brief run when she was smashing people to the title, but then her pull out vs Val triggered those for who such things are an issue and she's still recovering PR wise

Fans do have short memories.

 

[ions82]

Good point. My next thought is has anyone ever been able to market someone with those qualities? If not then whose fault is it? The market, the promoter or the fighter?

I think the only way for Souza to be marketable to the masses is through violence. If she can dismantle opponents in spectacular fashion, that will market itself. Essentially, she'd have to take chances and get lucky every time. If she won her way to the title by close decisions, I doubt she'd be too popular. I don't think Rousey's rise to fame was because of her beauty or charisma. She just finished people in seconds. Souza would have to "Mike Tyson" her way to any sort of huge popularity, and I don't see that as being too likely.

 

[MajorTB]

Good point. My next thought is has anyone ever been able to market someone with those qualities? If not then whose fault is it? The market, the promoter or the fighter?

Its mostly a market thing, IMO. As an LGBT person, I’m well aware the more I adhere to what’s “normal” & “attractive” for my gender (in attitude and appearance), the better I’ll be received by the general public. This is easily applied into markerting an athlete too. If Livia looked and acted like PVZ, her sexuality would be unimportant.

However Livia is an aggressive individual, and a very out lesbian, and that certainly makes some people uncomfortable, and you can’t blame the UFC or her for that.

Also, I think the rebook deal kinda hurts marketability for anyone who isn’t ultra generic (Sage & Paige, in example). The UFC (and fighters) should take some hints from the world of pro wrestling and build unique images based around a fighters personality.

 

[Nintendomark]

Also, I think the rebook deal kinda hurts marketability for anyone who isn’t ultra generic (Sage & Paige, in example). The UFC (and fighters) should take some hints from the world of pro wrestling and build unique images based around a fighters personality.

Personality and performance are definitely key. I rocked with Cynthia Calvillo off the strength of her hitting that crazy reversal and her post-fight speech in her UFC debut. The whole shark angle she mentioned.

Jojo has the Scottish accent and whispering thing

Randa stands out to me simply due to her bright hair color, even if her performances aren't always the best.

Hell, even Karolina's trademark wink during fight introductions helps.

"If I perform my best I am the best. If God's will and still." - I think I got that Rose quote, it sticks in my mind.

With so many fights and fighters, you need something to make the viewer remember you.

 

[Mittens]

The big problem with Souza for me has always been her "ghetto" type of act - doesn't she even wear a baseball cap at a weird angle at times (or am I misremembering?) and that goes into the ludicrous realm of Diaz bros which causes Mittens to back away really quickly. Just no. No.

Never really even stopped to think she was an out & loud lesbian. Heh. All about the Diazness

 

[kuka45]

I would say Nunes has a brief run when she was smashing people to the title, but then her pull out vs Val triggered those for who such things are an issue and she's still recovering PR wise

Nunes can't recover after UFC 213 but mostly 2nd fight vs Shevchenko destroyed her career, mainly not because it was close, but because it was extremly boring fight that displeased most of fans. I like Nunes, but her takin on Cyborg is just result of UFC 215.
Both fighters got easy fights after UFC 215... and partially regained some hype, but right now both will have risky fights. Nunes will face Cyborg, and Shevchenko will face Joanna, Nunes will have mountain to climb and Val is going for completely unpredictable oponnent - Joanna's body language is weird after announcing this fights, strangely confident. I'm even confused as her fan.

 

[PrideUltimate]

Doesn't she have championship to win 1st?
Who's fault is it that, she is not marketable? It's really not important who's fault it is, you got the market or you don't.
I think biggest problem that these cute girls get alot of marketing that they are not able to get with their performance on the ring. There are plenty of wmma practicioners that have strong fan base and are highly marketed, but in the ring they look like amateurs. They kind of made difficult to make the women who can actually fight to shine.
But one way to get some recognition is to beat those cute girls, hope she gets that done, so feed them to her.

 

[PurpleStorm]

The big problem with Souza for me has always been her "ghetto" type of act - doesn't she even wear a baseball cap at a weird angle at times (or am I misremembering?) and that goes into the ludicrous realm of Diaz bros which causes Mittens to back away really quickly. Just no. No.

Never really even stopped to think she was an out & loud lesbian. Heh. All about the Diazness

Yeah she did a sideways cap thing but hey Invicta encourages individual style. The other night her English was better than a Diaz bro. She even said even said she respects a potential opponent.

 

[kuka45]

Doesn't she have championship to win 1st?
Who's fault is it that, she is not marketable? It's really not important who's fault it is, you got the market or you don't.
I think biggest problem that these cute girls get alot of marketing that they are not able to get with their performance on the ring. There are plenty of wmma practicioners that have strong fan base and are highly marketed, but in the ring they look like amateurs. They kind of made difficult to make the women who can actually fight to shine.
But one way to get some recognition is to beat those cute girls, hope she gets that done, so feed them to her.

For UFC perfect combo is:sexy and can fight. Unsexy and can fight won't sell tickets. Even popular male champions are somehow attractive: Conor or GSP, with a lot of female fans.
I like fights and I don't care how chicks looks inside octagon, but i feel like I'm minority. Kowalkiewicz wearing makeup vs Andrade was silly af, but can't blame her.

 

[LilMountain]

Nunes can't recover after UFC 213 but mostly 2nd fight vs Shevchenko destroyed her career, mainly not because it was close, but because it was extremly boring fight that displeased most of fans. I like Nunes, but her takin on Cyborg is just result of UFC 215.
Both fighters got easy fights after UFC 215... and partially regained some hype, but right now both will have risky fights. Nunes will face Cyborg, and Shevchenko will face Joanna, Nunes will have mountain to climb and Val is going for completely unpredictable oponnent - Joanna's body language is weird after announcing this fights, strangely confident. I'm even confused as her fan.

I recall the hate starting as soon as she pulled out, calling her a coward, claiming she was faking and all that, the fight didn't help fix things, but it began before that

 

[kuka45]

recall the hate starting as soon as she pulled out, calling her a coward, claiming she was faking and all that, the fight didn't help fix things, but it began before that

Yes and UFC 215 "fight" was final nail in the coffin, two L's in less than 3 months. Fans can forgive everything, but not boring fights aka staredown contests. Tbh both fighters finshed next oponnents, but Nunes doesn't have crazy fans like Shevchenko, I doubt she has any dedicated fans. At least she gonna fight heavier oponnent, Shevchenko wanted to fight strawweight.