To be perfectly fair your overwhelming hate is just as ridiculous as the overwhelming love he gets from other people.
Neither look is a good one.
And I was around when he started his career and you complained many times how it was unfair and corrupt that he was getting fights against good competition and fighting for belts so early on. You said he should have to go through the ranks and earn main event status by beating a bunch of nobodies and then journeymen first. Yet now even though he is barely 10 fights into his career you constantly complain that he isn't fighting good opposition which is as flop floppy as it gets. So it's pretty obvious that no matter what he does you'll find a way to shit all over it.
I think he's technically amazing as a fighter but it's boxing and anyone can get got at any time in any fight. Which is why I like boxing in the first place.
It is true though,....Loma's wins are not even near as impressive as they're being made out to be. Look at all his opponents (except Russell) and you see serious flaws or disadvantages they had against Loma. Its not by accident, Bruce Trampler is doing a phenomenal job picking opponents that are cake but seem hard from the outside.
what advantages though? Loma has fought bigger guys, guys with longer reaches etc...
Saying that he hasn't fought good ocmpetition is just wrong. You can say you're underwhelmed. You can definitely say it should be better relative to where Loma is in the sport. But not good? He's faced several titlists and ranked fighters, with a fairly diverse set of skills. That at least warrants a "good"
This sounds like when people were screaming at Pac and Floyd to go up in weight until they lost. They wouldn't be impressed with who they picked as an opponent (finding all manner of excuses) until they lost, then they got exposed. This isn't appreciating a fighter for his career, it's cheering for his downfall and holding silly, often innaccurate, things against him.
That's fine, you don't have to be a fan, I'm not really a huge one myself and I agree Loma's fanbase is irritating. But to say that he hasn't faced fighters that are at least "good" is just factually wrong.
You're right that they definitely saw Loma struggle with Salido, but he's grown immensely as a fighter since that, which seems like something you refuse to accept. Not only that, but Salido has wanted nothing to do with him since he got that first win yet you still insist Loma was the duck. Frankly, you seem pretty set on being underwhelmed, even when Corrales was hot, you said that you weren't interested in Lomachenko facing him, even though it would have been for the lineal title.
And honestly, who at 126 or 130 (while Loma was at those weights) fights like Salido? Maybe Miura, but he's not really an elite fighter, as much as I like him. Berchelt is another guy that more recently came on the scene and Lomachenko called him out. The whole "Arum built fighter" narrative just doesn't fit. Loma is 11 fights in and he's already faced a variety of styles and levels of fighters.
It's not that you don't like him, nobody cares about who you're a fan of or not, it's more that you just want to not like him and you'll insist on being underwhelmed until he loses, and then you'll say he got exposed. You exagerate how bad his opponents are, IE: Pirinyapanyo, whom you called a total tomato can, but is realistically closer to a regional champion level fighter; hardly an elite fighter, but certainly not a total tomato can, or Walters, who was universally regarded as at least pretty good.
The fact that you're expecting him to go up two weight classes to face Mikey shows how unreasonable your expectations are. Nobody cares, it just seems a little illogical is all.
You won't get him to admit to just being set on disliking Lomachenko. This is a guy who claimed that he doesn't like him because he is too one dimensional as a fighter, I shit you not. Seano will never give Lomachenko credit even if he makes Mikey Garcia quit on his stool.
It is true though,....Loma's wins are not even near as impressive as they're being made out to be. Look at all his opponents (except Russell) and you see serious flaws or disadvantages they had against Loma. Its not by accident, Bruce Trampler is doing a phenomenal job picking opponents that are cake but seem hard from the outside.
Walters wasn't obviously flawed and he is big for SFW. Lomachenko fought him when his career was in a lull, sure, but he was (and probably still is) a decent fighter. I mean, we probably shouldn't have expected him to give Lomachenko too much of a challenge, but that's got a lot to do with Lomachenko's quality, not because Walters is a shitty fighter. Outside of Russell and Walters (and even with Russell, even if he is clearly talented, it isn't really clear how good he is), there isn't a ton there that is wildly impressive, but that's more because the SFW and FW divisions (back when Lomachenko was campaigning there) have been short on talent since Lomachenko turned pro; it's not because the matchmaking has been especially careful.
It is true though,....Loma's wins are not even near as impressive as they're being made out to be. Look at all his opponents (except Russell) and you see serious flaws or disadvantages they had against Loma. Its not by accident, Bruce Trampler is doing a phenomenal job picking opponents that are cake but seem hard from the outside.
Absolute bullshit. This could also be said about Crawford in part (Postol is a Top Rank fighter & arguably his best win, in a P4P sense he was closest) and a TON of HOFers and ATGs, btw. Trampler had nothing at all to do with Loma being matched up against Russell Jr., obviously, or Rigondeaux (who you conveniently "forgot" to mention). Those are two of the three most often cited quality wins to date on his record. Loma's manager, Egis Klimas, and Lomachenko himself had to convince Arum to greenlight that fight and give into Rigo's public pressure in screaming for that fight through New Media and over social media. #Rigolution my ass! Loma not only made a concession when he didn't have to as the CLEAR A-side, but, he also traveled from the West Coast to the East for that pathetic "performance" by Rigo. Loma accepted the fight (again), made weight, agreed to their rehydration clause (again), honored it, and there was also no rematch clause for his WBO title in the contract in the event that he lost to Rigo (who's a Caribe/Roc Nation fighter after all). Interestingly enough, Roc froze Caribe out of co-promoting their fight. That tells me they certainly had a vested interest in Rigo winning. Caribe is now suing Roc as a result.
As for Walters (one Top Rank fighter of his three most respectable wins), he was offered that fight previously. Since he didn't accept it when it was on the table the first time around Arum likely did punish him by putting him on the shelf. They fought at the end of 2016 rather than in June when it was initially planned, big deal. Loma moved up and fought Martinez as a replacement instead for his WBO title (who also isn't a Top Rank fighter and was Top 5 ranked by The RING) and Walters was his very first defense. Walters was the one demanding $1 million. He was originally offered 550k + an additional 300k win bonus out of Loma's own purse. He still declined. It's also worth noting that Loma was even willing to fight Rigo (a top P4P fighter) after just 5 pro fights at FW with a rehydration clause and a very reasonable offer from Top Rank on top of a 500k win bonus when Rigo initially called him out in 2015.
You can credit the right guy, Vasyl Lomachenko.
Oh, and Brad Goodman actually started matchmaking for Loma's career in the beginning. It's not like Trampler is the only matchmaker or head matchmaker that they have over there or have ever had (Ron Katz, et al).
Walters wasn't obviously flawed and he is big for SFW. Lomachenko fought him when his career was in a lull, sure, but he was (and probably still is) a decent fighter. I mean, we probably shouldn't have expected him to give Lomachenko too much of a challenge, but that's got a lot to do with Lomachenko's quality, not because Walters is a shitty fighter.
Walters was inactive for over a year before he fought Loma. Also, Walters was something like 40 lbs. overweight before he started camp for Loma (theres a pic of him floating out there). This isn't some post-fight excuses, prior to that fight many people said Walters was not prepared at all.
Absolute bullshit. This could also be said about Crawford in part (Postol is a Top Rank fighter & arguably his best win, in a P4P sense he was closest) and a TON of HOFers and ATGs, btw. Trampler had nothing at all to do with Loma being matched up against Russell Jr., obviously, or Rigondeaux (who you conveniently "forgot" to mention). Those are two of the three most often cited quality wins to date on his record. Loma's manager, Egis Klimas, and Lomachenko himself had to convince Arum to greenlight that fight and give into Rigo's public pressure in screaming for that fight through New Media and over social media. #Rigolution my ass! Loma not only made a concession when he didn't have to as the CLEAR A-side, but, he also traveled from the West Coast to the East for that pathetic "performance" by Rigo. Loma accepted the fight (again), made weight, agreed to their rehydration clause (again), honored it, and there was also no rematch clause for his WBO title in the contract in the event that he lost to Rigo (who's a Caribe/Roc Nation fighter after all). Interestingly enough, Roc froze Caribe out of co-promoting their fight. That tells me they certainly had a vested interest in Rigo winning. Caribe is now suing Roc as a result.
As for Walters (one Top Rank fighter of his three most respectable wins), he was offered that fight previously. Since he didn't accept it when it was on the table the first time around Arum likely did punish him by putting him on the shelf. They fought at the end of 2016 rather than in June when it was initially planned, big deal. Loma moved up and fought Martinez as a replacement instead for his WBO title (who also isn't a Top Rank fighter and was Top 5 ranked by The RING) and Walters was his very first defense. Walters was the one demanding $1 million. He was originally offered 550k + an additional 300k win bonus out of Loma's own purse. He still declined. It's also worth noting that Loma was even willing to fight Rigo (a top P4P fighter) after just 5 pro fights at FW with a rehydration clause and a very reasonable offer from Top Rank on top of a 500k win bonus when Rigo initially called him out in 2015.
You can credit the right guy, Vasyl Lomachenko.
Oh, and Brad Goodman actually started matchmaking for Loma's career in the beginning. It's not like Trampler is the only matchmaker or head matchmaker that they have over there or have ever had (Ron Katz, et al).
Seriously though is that something you’ve read or know as fact. Like is your source dan Rafaels twitter or Gareth a davies’ dribblings or someone who knows what they’re talking about?
Seriously though is that something you’ve read or know as fact. Like is your source dan Rafaels twitter or Gareth a davies’ dribblings or someone who knows what they’re talking about?
I’d heard a similar story with bits added to it so when someone puts a wall of text I generally check because I don’t want to say anything said to me in confidence, on a forum.
I’d heard a similar story with bits added to it so when someone puts a wall of text I generally check because I don’t want to say anything said to me in confidence, on a forum.
My whole point is this. If you want to criticize a fighter for being with a promoter that has a great hall of fame matchmaker by accusing that matchmaker of matching up said fighter favorably then that can be applied to the same person he is saying should be 2017 FOTY and tons of other great fighters. Singling out a fighter when that also applies to fighters that they praise is hypocritical.
a guy with great footwork who throws from sometimes strange angles who is sometimes matched carefully to avoid him looking bad...until he has to fight the very best....
My whole point is this. If you want to criticize a fighter for being with a promoter that has a great hall of fame matchmaker by accusing that matchmaker of matching up said fighter favorably then that can be applied to the same person he is saying should be 2017 FOTY and tons of other great fighters. Singling out a fighter when that also applies to fighters that they praise is hypocritical.
Did i ever argue that Crawford has fought a murderer's row?
The thing about Crawford, nobody really goes around touting how good his resume is in the same way they do with Loma. That makes Loma's resume fair game to be picked over. And why don't you refute whether the substance of the criticism is true? Can you really argue that Loma has had advantages in all his main bouts minus Russell?
Did i ever argue that Crawford has fought a murderer's row?
The thing about Crawford, nobody really goes around touting how good his resume is in the same way they do with Loma. That makes Loma's resume fair game to be picked over. And why don't you refute whether the substance of the criticism is true? Can you really argue that Loma has had advantages in all his main bouts minus Russell?
This isn't just about Loma, Crawford or whoever. Loma's resume is being touted because he's only had 11 fights and fought as many titleholders as the other P4P fighters that've had far more fights (fillers) and been fighting as pros much longer. But you say that his resume is fair game? Yes, as are the others.
This isn't just about Loma, Crawford or whoever. Loma's resume is being touted because he's only had 11 fights and fought as many titleholders as the other P4P fighters that've had far more fights (fillers) and been fighting as pros much longer. But you say that his resume is fair game? Yes, as are the others.
Cmon, lets get real. The dude is almost 30 and arguably the most accomplished amateur in the sport's history. Don't give me the 11 fights bullshit, Loma is more experienced than 80% of the pros out there and he cannot be judged by the same standard. He's a damn sight more experienced than Tank Davis who everyone seems to want him to fight now and who has more pro fights. Loma's strength (vast amateur experience and gold medal pedigree) is now being touted as a weakness,...stop it.
To be honest if he fucks about with his pro career it’s a damn shame. He’s proved he’s a top fighter. People aren’t getting in the ring with him expecting a novice.
That's fine, you don't have to be a fan, I'm not really a huge one myself and I agree Loma's fanbase is irritating. But to say that he hasn't faced fighters that are at least "good" is just factually wrong.
You're right that they definitely saw Loma struggle with Salido, but he's grown immensely as a fighter since that, which seems like something you refuse to accept. Not only that, but Salido has wanted nothing to do with him since he got that first win yet you still insist Loma was the duck. Frankly, you seem pretty set on being underwhelmed, even when Corrales was hot, you said that you weren't interested in Lomachenko facing him, even though it would have been for the lineal title.
And honestly, who at 126 or 130 (while Loma was at those weights) fights like Salido? Maybe Miura, but he's not really an elite fighter, as much as I like him. Berchelt is another guy that more recently came on the scene and Lomachenko called him out. The whole "Arum built fighter" narrative just doesn't fit. Loma is 11 fights in and he's already faced a variety of styles and levels of fighters.
It's not that you don't like him, nobody cares about who you're a fan of or not, it's more that you just want to not like him and you'll insist on being underwhelmed until he loses, and then you'll say he got exposed. You exagerate how bad his opponents are, IE: Pirinyapanyo, whom you called a total tomato can, but is realistically closer to a regional champion level fighter; hardly an elite fighter, but certainly not a total tomato can, or Walters, who was universally regarded as at least pretty good.
The fact that you're expecting him to go up two weight classes to face Mikey shows how unreasonable your expectations are. Nobody cares, it just seems a little illogical is all.
What is this based off of? How exactly has he grown. We have not seen him fight a similar fighter to Salido yet so how do we know he wont be thwarted by an opponent of a similar rough and tumble style. ???
I agree with you though, Loma has deff beat some good fighters.
Cmon, lets get real. The dude is almost 30 and arguably the most accomplished amateur in the sport's history. Don't give me the 11 fights bullshit, Loma is more experienced than 80% of the pros out there and he cannot be judged by the same standard. He's a damn sight more experienced than Tank Davis who everyone seems to want him to fight now and who has more pro fights. Loma's strength (vast amateur experience and gold medal pedigree) is now being touted as a weakness,...stop it.
Is there a way to make the other titleholders in his division fight him? Let me know if you can think of one. I suppose they could demand it and smear him for months on social media to the point where they can't be ignored. Lest we forget, Rigo demanded the fight. Loma said he wasn't interested in it and when he did the "he's DUCKING" bs came about. Davis wasn't the only one called out (because he slandered a woman that covers boxing, Michelle "Raging Babe" Rosado). There's a poll up right now on Loma's Twitter account with Garcia, Berchelt, Tank and others all listed as opponents.
Who should he be fighting? He moved up last year because he couldn't get the fights he wanted and is going to again in 2018. Lomachenko isn't outgrowing these divisions he's moving up to seek challenges. It isn't his fault the other current titleholders either want a ton of money to fight him, effectively pricing themselves out, or they want nothing to do with him until he slows down.
Is there a way to make the other titleholders in his division fight him? Let me know if you can think of one. I suppose they could demand it and smear him for months on social media to the point where they can't be ignored. Lest we forget, Rigo demanded the fight. Loma said he wasn't interested in it and when he did the "he's DUCKING" bs came about. Davis wasn't the only one called out (because he slandered a woman that covers boxing, Michelle "Raging Babe" Rosado). There's a poll up right now on Loma's Twitter account with Garcia, Berchelt, Tank and others all listed as opponents.
Who should he be fighting? He moved up last year because he couldn't get the fights he wanted and is going to again in 2018. Lomachenko isn't outgrowing these divisions he's moving up to seek challenges. It isn't his fault the other current titleholders either want a ton of money to fight him, effectively pricing themselves out, or they want nothing to do with him until he slows down.
If he isn't "outgrowing" these divisions then why didn't he fight Rigo at 126? Chew on that for a bit.
I'm not going to deny that Loma is in a tough position, because his natural weight doesn't really have the talent required to test him. As far as his next opponent, I think anything at 130 is kinda pointless honestly. Its a weak division. I don't really care to see him fight Berchelt, much less Davis. He needs to move up to 135 if he really wants to make fights that are even remotely interesting.
If he isn't "outgrowing" these divisions then why didn't he fight Rigo at 126? Chew on that for a bit.
I'm not going to deny that Loma is in a tough position, because his natural weight doesn't really have the talent required to test him. As far as his next opponent, I think anything at 130 is kinda pointless honestly. Its a weak division. I don't really care to see him fight Berchelt, much less Davis. He needs to move up to 135 if he really wants to make fights that are even remotely interesting.
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