Old fashioned Bare knuckle Boxing/Wing Chun type punches vs modern boxing for self defence

[MadSquabbles500]

i hope these new bare knuckle boxing organizations in the US have success, i'd like to see competitors from various backgrounds like Wing Chun get in there just so we can see some different approaches to bare knuckle fighting. it'd be be cool to see some old school stuff come back into practice, whether it's from an Eastern or Western martial art

But I dont think this current iteration of Bare Knuckles is the same as pre Marquis of queensberry. This current iteration, I believe, uses marquis of queensberry rules. There is no clinching.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

next time one of their events comes around, i'll see if it says anything about allowing forearm strikes or palm heel. in modern boxing/queensberry rules, aren't back of hand strikes banned?

 

[eternaldarkness]

also if you interested in how wing chun could apply to a fight watch jack johnson, i have never seen a boxer that relies so much on parry and trapping, half of what he did wouldn't be legal in modern boxing, but he was a hell of a fist fighter.

 

[zapataxiv]

also if you interested in how wing chun could apply to a fight watch jack johnson, i have never seen a boxer that relies so much on parry and trapping, half of what he did wouldn't be legal in modern boxing, but he was a hell of a fist fighter.

while i disagree with he premise of this thread and the idea that BKB resembles Wing Chun. I would say its more similar to how two bare knuckle striking styles can seem similar because they rely on having to deal with the same issues.

another really good watch is finding old footage from the 40's some of the boxing they do is a lot more infighting oriented with a much heavier use of hands and head posting compared to what is allowed to transpire now.

[yt]
Just from this highlight you can see the amount of clinching and wrestling and that is 8n Star I contrast to footage we can watch from later on in Moore’s career. Although it is probably why he was so slick at getting inside and hand trapping later on when it’s seems the rules changed.

 

[TheMaster]

also if you interested in how wing chun could apply to a fight watch jack johnson, i have never seen a boxer that relies so much on parry and trapping, half of what he did wouldn't be legal in modern boxing, but he was a hell of a fist fighter.

I think the early days of boxing they were still influenced by the barefist style more so we can get a bit of a glimpse of what it may have looked like.
The interesting question is how would boxing have evolved if they kept it bare knuckle and also not marquee of queensbury?
It is true that whether or not wing chun shares a direct lineage to old time bare knuckle, or simply whether they are two bare fist styles that independently evolved to look similar because the same issues arise we can learn alot from the old timers and see what is being missed today.

There is hell of a lot of depth in wing chun but as we know the vast majority who do it train wc vs wc, dont spar or cross train and are not in great shape.

I will probably get flamed for this but:
I believe especially for the bare knuckle environment, boxing cross fertlized and combined with good WIng Chun can if trained properly become a kind of 'Ultimate boxing' for self defence. You have the sparring, movement and dangerous tools of boxing, then you combine close range punching or palm heels and sensitivity/hand trapping and parrrying and dirty boxing methods of wing chun along with forearms and elbow strikes. The result is just brutal.

 

[eternaldarkness]

I think the early days of boxing they were still influenced by the barefist style more so we can get a bit of a glimpse of what it may have looked like.
The interesting question is how would boxing have evolved if they kept it bare knuckle and also not marquee of queensbury?
It is true that whether or not wing chun shares a direct lineage to old time bare knuckle, or simply whether they are two bare fist styles that independently evolved to look similar because the same issues arise we can learn alot from the old timers and see what is being missed today.

There is hell of a lot of depth in wing chun but as we know the vast majority who do it train wc vs wc, dont spar or cross train and are not in great shape.

I will probably get flamed for this but:
I believe especially for the bare knuckle environment, boxing cross fertlized and combined with good WIng Chun can if trained properly become a kind of 'Ultimate boxing' for self defence. You have the sparring, movement and dangerous tools of boxing, then you combine close range punching or palm heels and sensitivity/hand trapping and parrrying and dirty boxing methods of wing chun along with forearms and elbow strikes. The result is just brutal.

i always had the same though. i don't have any experience in wing chun but i always thought that a combination of the two could be highly effective.

 

[PivotPunch]

Have you ever hit a guy who is 20 pounds bigger then that dropped him? I'd agree not very many. Most fights with kos are from same sized fighters. There are weight classes for a reason.

That's when 2 high level boxers fight. If the other guy doesn't train 20lbs won't do anything. Maybe if it's 50lbs. Even with guys who train you see high level boxers beat up 20lbs heavier lower level boxers all the time in gyms

 

[MB5161]

Combination of boxing and wing Chun? sounds like Inosanto lineage JKD. Everything is done out of a boxing stance and footwork-Wing Chun, boxing, Filipino boxing, Thai Boxing. A lot of the hand trapping turns into checking in the ring but the training is great

 

[trendnick]

Good technique > weight

 

[Mike K.O]

Bare knuckle fighting is great for MMA, not only because of the small gloves but your opponent is rarely prepared for straights to the body or staight only combos. I punch with the vertical fist since I was a kid, after reading about Jack Dempsey doing it. I have yet to test it in pro MMA tho. It also seems like they threw straights using mostly the arm, not the whole body (Jack Dempsey throws his straights that way). It's very interesting for sure.

 

[thugpoet]

That's when 2 high level boxers fight. If the other guy doesn't train 20lbs won't do anything. Maybe if it's 50lbs. Even with guys who train you see high level boxers beat up 20lbs heavier lower level boxers all the time in gyms

In most street situations a swift jab can end a fight.

There are cases where punches won't have an effect mostly like occurring because of the weight different.

I don't buy a 140 guy beating a 250 pound guy 9 out of 10 times.

The best self defense is to gtfo at the very least get a stick.

 

[shincheckin]

theres something useful in every martial art. IMO wing chun has a few beneficial things you could take from it, but overall, it falls more into fantasy martial art IMO. That being said, I would be willing to learn some of their hand trapping techniques, but from what I can gather its mostly something like this: Grab with your right hand, then quickly grab same area with left hand while releasing with right hand, and striking with right hand.



A very high level wing chun guy would probably be able to learn quickly and be very good at muay thai clinching, and hand trapping to elbows. That is the only reason I have any interest in it.

this is bullshit

 

[Replay19]

Master Wong does his best to show WC, I mean, the elbow could work, but it's not that good of a technique against a boxer. What if the elbow doesn't time or land right, or if the boxer throws a body shot or hook, the elbows really inefficient at guarding against body shots or lower targets, which means it'll leave you open to get KO'd. I give him props for trying though... but yeah, the elbow COULD work but it's not highly probable, and shouldn't be "the main tool."

Actually most Wing Chun fighters I met who are pretty good are either 1% highly skilled pure traditionalists (which are very rare, most of them suck), or they are WC fighters who have a decent background and study in boxing and are doing WC at the same time. The ones who can box really well and get really well at WC too are usually the more skilled fighters obviously. I know a muay thai dude who does wing chun as well and he found his way of putting them together really well. His old school muay thai background and experience combined with the more softer wing chun technique and concept balanced out quite well, but it was only because he was really good with muay thai and put in an equal amount of practice and dedication to his wing chun studies.

 

[ctrlaltdelete]

There's a world bare knuckle championship happening next month in wisconsin. I'm ordering the PPV. Bas Rutten Is involved, as is Chris Leben, Phil Baroni, and a few other ex ufc fighters.

Thought BKB folks would like to know

 

[TheMaster]

There's a world bare knuckle championship happening next month in wisconsin. I'm ordering the PPV. Bas Rutten Is involved, as is Chris Leben, Phil Baroni, and a few other ex ufc fighters.

Thought BKB folks would like to know

Nice thanks, will have to check it out I hope it takes off. World Bare Knuckle championship. This will be something to see. Found the site.

https://bareknucklefightingfederation.com

Maybe we will see other fighters from the mma or combat sports world take it up.

 

[shincheckin]

Master Wong does his best to show WC, I mean, the elbow could work, but it's not that good of a technique against a boxer. What if the elbow doesn't time or land right, or if the boxer throws a body shot or hook, the elbows really inefficient at guarding against body shots or lower targets, which means it'll leave you open to get KO'd. I give him props for trying though... but yeah, the elbow COULD work but it's not highly probable, and shouldn't be "the main tool."

Actually most Wing Chun fighters I met who are pretty good are either 1% highly skilled pure traditionalists (which are very rare, most of them suck), or they are WC fighters who have a decent background and study in boxing and are doing WC at the same time. The ones who can box really well and get really well at WC too are usually the more skilled fighters obviously. I know a muay thai dude who does wing chun as well and he found his way of putting them together really well. His old school muay thai background and experience combined with the more softer wing chun technique and concept balanced out quite well, but it was only because he was really good with muay thai and put in an equal amount of practice and dedication to his wing chun studies.

elbowing a incoming punch on purpose is like shooting a incoming bullet with your own bullet. its not impossible

 

[thugpoet]

elbowing a incoming punch on purpose is like shooting a incoming bullet with your own bullet. its not impossible

It's pretty hard for sure. I catch shoots with the forarm or with another shot ( jab for jab for example ) but an elbow directly after the shoot is thrown? Good luck.

Now if you have the elbow up the entire time and used it as a standard guard could work

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

maybe if you fight like how Mac dances, you could catch punches with your elbows. i've never been in a real fist fight, but that just seems like such an absurd technique. if you have the reflex and coordination to see a punch coming, and move your elbow in front of it, why not just move your head out of the way and either strike back or go for a throw? i feel like if you can't produce a video showing the technique in some sort of competition, then it's highly suspect.

 

[shincheckin]

It's pretty hard for sure. I catch shoots with the forarm or with another shot ( jab for jab for example ) but an elbow directly after the shoot is thrown? Good luck.

Now if you have the elbow up the entire time and used it as a standard guard could work

i knew a guy who was a bouncer, he tried to play it off like it was intentional, but it was not. Anyways he threw a elbow at a guy who was punching him at the same time. so dude basically punched his elbow, shattered his hand. not impossible but just unlikely.

Using your elbows from the guard is entirely possible.

 

[eternaldarkness]

elbowing a incoming punch on purpose is like shooting a incoming bullet with your own bullet. its not impossible

True, but if you are a master it is possible to catch body shots with the points of your elbows. Ali did it a lot latter in his career.