Old fashioned Bare knuckle Boxing/Wing Chun type punches vs modern boxing for self defence

True, but if you are a master it is possible to catch body shots with the points of your elbows. Ali did it a lot latter in his career.

you protect your body with the lower part of your arms/elbows. Its a way to cover up. Someone punching your elbow going in for a body shot is entirely possible. I have done it and injured my thumb pretty bad for example. But I am going to disagree that Ali was throwing spike elbows to incoming body shots.
 
maybe if you fight like how Mac dances, you could catch punches with your elbows. i've never been in a real fist fight, but that just seems like such an absurd technique. if you have the reflex and coordination to see a punch coming, and move your elbow in front of it, why not just move your head out of the way and either strike back or go for a throw? i feel like if you can't produce a video showing the technique in some sort of competition, then it's highly suspect.



yeah exactly, this is where we have to start to take into consideration of fantasy vs reality. Its not impossible to do a spinning back elbow on someones punch, just like its not impossible to shoot a incoming bullet with your own bullet, or skydive have your parachute fail and live, its been done before, but its not likely.

We can again use MMA as a reference as to what works and what does not. You are allowed to elbow in MMA, you are allowed to punch in MMA. Nearly all MMA fighters train and know how to throw elbows. If you wanted to elbow someones incoming punch in MMA it would be legal, yet we dont see it being done. if its such a great technique why isnt it being done? because the concept of elbowing someones incoming punch is fantasy

why not just shatter guys hands? because they have mma gloves on! doesnt matter the gloves are small enough that the protection is minimal and a major hand injury would still be the result.

also worth pointing out that throwing an elbow at a incoming punch, is alot different than slighty raising your elbows from a double forearm guard.
 
you protect your body with the lower part of your arms/elbows. Its a way to cover up. Someone punching your elbow going in for a body shot is entirely possible. I have done it and injured my thumb pretty bad for example. But I am going to disagree that Ali was throwing spike elbows to incoming body shots.
He didn't throw the elbow as a strike so much as turn the elbow slightly out to catch the punch with the point. He did it a number of times against foreman and started using it a fair bit when he laid on the ropes in latter fights. It is not something I ever saw him do in his prime.
 
He didn't throw the elbow as a strike so much as turn the elbow slightly out to catch the punch with the point. He did it a number of times against foreman and started using it a fair bit when he laid on the ropes in latter fights. It is not something I ever saw him do in his prime.

ok yeah i agree with that, post a link if you can
 
Well, there are a few books on bare knuckle boxing from the past available online. Wing Chun is very similar, but it seems to be only the "very close combat" stuff. Boxing is a lot deeper than WC imo.

Now, does it work? In my experience, WC doesn't work, but I never had a real, serious fight against WC guys, so take this with a grain of salt. My brother had two "let's see whose kung fu is stronger" encounters with WC teachers (that's what they said at least) and he won both, very easily, with basic Xingyiquan (which is basically Dempsey's boxing with headbutts, kicks and grabs, it's actually so similar I don't buy the myths about it being invented centuries ago).
 
Wing Chun can work in a fight with someone who doesn't know how to punch that well. But against a boxer, practically every instructor knows how to counter those wing Chun blocks it's easy you got to just throw a lot of feints. That's why wing Chun isn't effective on it's own but is better when mixed in with boxing or muay thai.
 
Ok, there are many martial arts which use the vertical fist punches. And this looks like that is the correct way for fighting in fights without gloves, but... There are many styles which use the horizontal version of the straight punches. So it is maybe a matter of choice. Probably both types of punches have their own pros and cons.
 
Wing Chun can work in a fight with someone who doesn't know how to punch that well. But against a boxer, practically every instructor knows how to counter those wing Chun blocks it's easy you got to just throw a lot of feints. That's why wing Chun isn't effective on it's own but is better when mixed in with boxing or muay thai.
No.
 
That's why wing Chun isn't effective on it's own but is better when mixed in with boxing or muay thai.
Stylist will go mad again, but there is some kind of proof to your comment: Lee learned boxing and fencing for addition to his wing chun. Question, why? Fencing develops high hands speed, necessity for this chun, experience with boxing helps to deal with non linear attacks used by the same boxing…..
Then, if to choose exotic art is necessity, JKD sounds better. However JKD was developed as core techiniques and general principles take from arts what Works for you.
 
Stylist will go mad again, but there is some kind of proof to your comment: Lee learned boxing and fencing for addition to his wing chun.
Bruce Lee? Is that you?<LikeReally5>

Question, why? Fencing develops high hands speed, necessity for this chun, experience with boxing helps to deal with non linear attacks used by the same boxing….
Sinister will go mad again, but his program is the way to develop these skills for boxers. Not pretending you can do Wing chun.

Then, if to choose exotic art is necessity, JKD sounds better. However JKD was developed as core techiniques and general principles take from arts what Works for you.
And what it that?

Tiger, Bear on Lion cub?<YeahOKJen>EDIT: Maybe Robin?
 
About old style boxing versus modern boxing I think, better if forearms are conditioned properly, use mix from old style and modern boxing.

There's some Arts, called russian kulacniy boi , I think, similar to old barecnuckle boxing, because barehands. So this Combat Sambo uses from this probably mixed with modern boxing for punches with fists. They do competitions, some videos are freely available, also for so called ARB competitions, so there opportunities to see and evaluate punches.
 
MMA brings up Wing Chun all time, prolly because it was popularized by BL.

Then come the internet nitwits of all stripes & colors.
Wing Chun vs Boxing
435,706 views


Dominick Izzo
Published on Sep 17, 2012


FIRST PROBLEM:
  1. Read the comments and the boxers commenting say that there is no boxer in the video. Who am I to say, but all the comments do.

SECOND PROBLEM
  1. Izzo Combat Tactical Arts
  2. Here's another MMA type guy who's figured out (what's wrong with) centuries of martial arts... with his buddy in the garage.
  3. One comment complains that Wing Chun spends all it's time trying to convince it work. Folks, meet Dominick Izzo.
  4. Izzo says Wing Chun doesn't work too far away 'cause you can't hit the boxer w/o moving in. Oh, I guess then a boxer can hit from far away w/o moving in? Or is it w moving in too? Oh, in that case the boxer won't automatically get hit but wing chun will.
All makes perfect sense-non.<{ByeHomer}>
 
Stylist will go mad again, but there is some kind of proof to your comment: Lee learned boxing and fencing for addition to his wing chun. Question, why? Fencing develops high hands speed, necessity for this chun, experience with boxing helps to deal with non linear attacks used by the same boxing…..
Then, if to choose exotic art is necessity, JKD sounds better. However JKD was developed as core techiniques and general principles take from arts what Works for you.

I never really got that whole take in what is useful and discard what is not thing to JKD. I mean I get it a little bit but if your practicing JKD, than your using JKD techniques. But if I see someone who trains like 2 striking arts and 2 grappling arts i label them as a mixed martial artist (not an mma fighter a mixed martial artist, or complete fighter).

Still people have argued with me in the past about whether wing Chun is good mixed in with kickboxing and boxing or mixed in with boxing and karate. But I can tell you first hand that training a little bit of wing Chun and taking in information good will help with Muay Thai or boxing.
 
In mma a good way to use WC is to allow contact then grap under then trap pull the other arm in and strike with follow up adding low kicks. In that setting WC is victorious but it takes a willing person.

Edit: I remember a discussion elsewhere people stating it doesn t work because of sweat lol might as well give up on all that is martial arts...........
 
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I never really got that whole take in what is useful and discard what is not thing to JKD.

I'm not wing chun or JKD fan and don't know them. If I had conversations with some sifus in my youth, they named their styles in another name and told, that they doesn't teaches JKD or wing chun because they knows stuff called xxxxxx and xxxxxx and are qualified to teach only stuff xxxx and this stuff isn't JKD or Wing Chun.
I can learn on hands by hands, not from books or without sparring.
If you have easy Access to real Sifu who tecahes this JKD or Wing Chun, then it is another conversation, if he does sparrings.

Concept core idea of JKD I see in all kicboxing, karate etc tournaments.
How it work? Kickboxing and karate is with a lot of blocks, strikes and kicks, but we see bouts videos, that even elite stars not rarely use just 4 - 6 different kicks and 3 - 6 different punches in whole bout.
That's the salt of core idea.

Lee learned wing chun and boxing and fencing, even started with judo. So there arises concept about mixing of the skills.
Earlier this already was done by creating of Sambo and their honest statement, that this is mix from many grappling arts.
Another example is Savat from my point of understanding.
Also service applications often use mixed techniques from Arts, not single art.
The Lee's phylosophy about skills condensating in set of techniques was beauty of understanding about core principles of the real fight for a life.
 
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I mentioned this before but here is a vid
Silva IS using some wing chun in this clip. Obviously mixed with his style already but he has added it to his arsenal.
He did some legit training with world famous trainer Dan Inosanto.
Note altho he 'lossed' againt bisping he 'won' the fight. He fucked bisping up badly, and took minimal damage himself.

 
I mentioned this before but here is a vid
Silva IS using some wing chun in this clip. Obviously mixed with his style already but he has added it to his arsenal.
He did some legit training with world famous trainer Dan Inosanto.
Note altho he 'lossed' againt bisping he 'won' the fight. He fucked bisping up badly, and took minimal damage himself.



<32>This is MMA's interpretation of Wing Chun. It's not Wing Chun.
 
<16>...........




Some allowed concepts from Wing Chun is used but it’s not Wing Chun of course or even by someone of accomplished rank that can meet ufc criteria.

The actual is allot more violent and no rule set applied or restricting, it’s just for entertainment sport combat.

Anderson got “TIPS” not trained in..... there is a difference.

The youtube with Dan and Anderson drilling some WC + JKD technique is more about applications of trapping and counter control striking for mma use.

Eg. grabbing at arm while striking repeat then backhand strike as an example.

Even the low shin/ knee kicks by Anderson are good but in actual are applied constantly and even from the rear, brutally with intent to break. Where in mma it’s held back or not executed in same way, as it’s a sport.

So it’s not true to WC concept of trapping and striking e.g ... like striking the throat as you are manipulating arms that are illegal moves under a rule set. Also it takes allot of development training with drills and exercises at an advanced level. It takes lots of training to get your head around it for starters and many hours of sensitivity training.

Many ufc fighters explore other martial arts with techniques that fit the mold of combat sport under ufc rule set.

That’s kool but what should be understood, is that is not to represent the actual style nor is it the way it really is applied just might look like it is with modifications.

Also equally important is that training WC whilst learning is expressed very differently when actual fighting, it’s fast very violent and dynamic.

This is where many get it wrong, uploading dozens of videos comparing and analysing what does and doesn’t work, on false information of the particular martial art styles that they critique and demo as useless and ineffective......... but it’s a cycle of............

<16>
 
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So it’s not true to WC concept of trapping and striking e.g ... like striking the throat as you are manipulating arms that are illegal moves under a rule set.

That’s kool but what should be understood, is that is not to represent the actual style

Okey, other Arts also have these non sport moves, plenty of them. WC or JKD isn't unique with this.
Yes, some kicks for self defense are different from sport with '' where '' and some with '' how '' , some with both differences, but because kicks and punches usable in sport are drilled more frequently and sparrings are done with them, they maybe even more usable for self defense. That's because better and faster usable is what drilled and done more than rarely drilled kicks and punches.
About strikes with open hands I think, too long time to drill, better take some strikes and drill them, not take 30+ not usable in sport strikes and spend time with these drillings.
 
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