ortegas game plan, wtf was all that about?

[IBlockPunchesWithMyFace]

No real instruction or advise from his corner. He needs a real mma camp.

He has a real MMA camp. You're acting like Holloway is a super easy guy to figure out in the moment. Truth is, Ortega needs to work on his takedowns and offensive wrestling. If you look at his stats before the fight, you would have had the same takeaway. Shit, Max comes from a very small camp and so does Stipe. Sometimes fighters like a smaller environment where they can be the main focus during their camp rather then being in a gym like AKA where a lot of camps are going on at once and the coaching staff are working on everyone. Bigger doesn't always equal better when it comes to gym, it usually just means more vets and names that you can spar with or get advice from.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I believe it was Matt Hughes that once said, "the best defense for an armbar is a punch to the face."

Yeah and that’s not true, gsp will have something to say about that...

 

[AimedWithV]

mo not at all. He was losing against Moicano, even if he caught him with some solid shots.

That was exactly my point - he's losing the striking contest but relies on his ability to survive an capitalize on mistakes.
THAT is how he beat Moicano. And many others.

Ortega to me is another BJJ wizard that thinks he's a striker. The guy criminally under-uses his main strenght : the grappling.

He doesn't really have wrestling to back it up, but on the other hand, he uses opportunities to get the fight to the ground. And where he wants to.
Is it the same and effective in the same way? Not really. But it worked for him all the time, against elite.

How can you expect to beat Max Holloway without using or even trying to use your best strenght ? Imagine if Ortega fought the same way as Khabib : use the striking to set up the takedown and dominate your opponent on the ground.

He's not Khabib, his wrestling comparing to Khabib's is rudimentary and he doesn't know to mix-it-up.
If anything, he should apply a game RDA style - polishing his striking (power he does have), and make surprise takedowns.

 

[frandie2b]

He doesn't really have wrestling to back it up, but on the other hand, he uses opportunities to get the fight to the ground. And where he wants to.
Is it the same and effective in the same way? Not really. But it worked for him all the time, against elite.

And that's the problem, why doesn't he uses more/ works more on his wrestling ? It seems like everytime he subs someone, it is because of a small opportunity/mistake of his opponent. So it's great because it show that he can finish the fight anytime with a sub, but to me he's really underusing his main strenght by not pushing for the grappling.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

And that's the problem, why doesn't he uses more/ works more on his wrestling ? It seems like everytime he subs someone, it is because of a small opportunity/mistake of his opponent. So it's great because it show that he can finish the fight anytime with a sub, but to me he's really underusing his main strenght by not pushing for the grappling.

Well he comes form a heavy Gracie lineage, he isn’t dumb but i think he chose the striking/bjj approach over the wrestling/grappling one... he relies on people not wanting to take him down, thing is, he’s not Max or Connor, so sometimes, he will have to take the fight to the ground...

 

[Shaddows]

You dont beat max by stayng in the pocket. While ortegas striking has developed a lot, its miles away from maxes, yeah he took him donw and coulnt keep him there ONCE. then he tried like 2 or 3 half asses singles. These guy needs to go train with some real wrestlers, not only train, adopt that that mentality, or demian maia since is way closer to his roots. Is max going to be spamming tds vs ortega? fuck no, then why on earth did ortega fought the very worst way you coul fight vs max. You have 2 choices, you either pressure the shit out of him, or you outstrike him, which ortega by round 2 shoulve realized that was not going to happen.

You missed the point.
Fighters fear Ortega's ground game.
They are invariably so afraid of it, that their standup suffers from that and Ortega can capitalize on it.
This is, for instance, what happened to Frankie.

But Max did not fear the takedown threat, and as such, Ortega tried to be patient and wait for a time he could take Max down.
Problem is, he took so much damage, that when he could clinch, he could not take Max down.

I agree with you he should improve his TD, so he can actually force takedowns. But it was working until now, so you can't fault him for not changing something that wasn't broken.

 

[Oblivian]

Honestly, I think Ortega is just as dangerous standing as he is on the ground. I think his ground game is probably one of the most overrated aspects of his game. People act as though hitting the ground with him is an instant sub automatically. Guys like Tavares, Brandao, and Keoni Koch hung with him on the ground for a while. Hell, Tavares almost stopped him on the ground.

Honestly, Ortega did somewhat better than I expected. He's more durable and his cardio held up better than I thought.

 

[IloveTHIS]

He thought he was the man after he finished Frankie as quickly as he did. He found out last night what a fluke victory that was.

Jesus fucking christ sherdog truly never changes.

Ortega loses.....to the CHAMPION......the champion that hasn't lost in like 6 years....and suddenly the guy is a bum and his dominant wins are flukes.

Fuck off

 

[MusterX]

Yeah and that’s not true, gsp will have something to say about that...

Take it easy. He said it as a half-hearted joke but there is truth in the statement and we saw that on full display with Holloway/Ortega. Its hard to grapple and submit a guy when he's punching you in the face.

 

[Prince Nephilim]

his plan was to break Max's hand with his face

 

[Horriblehim]

Gameplan went out the window. He got whooped

 

[Bookfreak]

Nor wrestlers, or strikers or bjj fighters, mma fighetrs win titles moron

And getting a grab on a single leg with a half ass intent is not literally a td attempt, most of those “tds” attempts came after getting light up on his feet... his first intention was to strike with max, then to grapple, that was clear, khabib for example also strikes, but in his game plan is simple, first and most get the fight to the ground, well Ortega wants to strike and catch something on the fly, max was game enough not te leave a neck floating around so Ortega could’ve get a hold of... horrible game plan... fuck Ortega has been getting away with it for quite some time, with a couple of flukes...

I think this post is what makes the most sense. Ortega sadly wanted to box, never really wanted to go to the ground

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Take it easy. He said it as a half-hearted joke but there is truth in the statement and we saw that on full display with Holloway/Ortega. Its hard to grapple and submit a guy when he's punching you in the face.

Hard to grapple specially when the grappler does very little to grapple.

If you want to grapple, staying in the pocket and trading is not the best idea. Khabib Maia and countless grapplers have shown what to do if you want to grapple, what Ortega did certainly is not the best strategy to grapple

 

[Headkicktoleg]

His gameplan is almost always to get it to the ground, Max's TDD was just so good

pretty sure you didn't see the fight lol.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

You missed the point.
Fighters fear Ortega's ground game.
They are invariably so afraid of it, that their standup suffers from that and Ortega can capitalize on it.
This is, for instance, what happened to Frankie.

But Max did not fear the takedown threat, and as such, Ortega tried to be patient and wait for a time he could take Max down.
Problem is, he took so much damage, that when he could clinch, he could not take Max down.

I agree with you he should improve his TD, so he can actually force takedowns. But it was working until now, so you can't fault him for not changing something that wasn't broken.

Frankie is an excellent grappler I’m quite sure he disn’t fear ortegas ground. Brian’s ground game is outstanding, but he is not demian Maia, khabib or jacaré, not eve in the same league. Ortega is a finisher, he has great sub attacks, but Hasn’t shown much in regards to ground countrol...

I agree, Brian relies on people not wanting to get him to the ground due to his sick guard, thus he became a striker/bjj based fighter, but there is people who are going to fuck him up standing and he will have to force the fight to the ground, and at this stage, it seems he won’t be able to do it vs the elite..

 

[marvinparsons]

Grappler meets a better striker with TDD and better cardio. Beatdown will ensue.

 

[Bookfreak]

Ortega:
BJJ = 9,5
Wrestling = 4
Striking = 7,0

vs

Holloway:
BJJ = ?
Wrestling = 8,5
Striking = 9,0

 

[Shaddows]

Frankie is an excellent grappler I’m quite sure he disn’t fear ortegas ground. Brian’s ground game is outstanding, but he is not demian Maia, khabib or jacaré, not eve in the same league. Ortega is a finisher, he has great sub attacks, but Hasn’t shown much in regards to ground countrol...

I agree, Brian relies on people not wanting to get him to the ground due to his sick guard, thus he became a striker/bjj based fighter, but there is people who are going to fuck him up standing and he will have to force the fight to the ground, and at this stage, it seems he won’t be able to do it vs the elite..

Well, that's the thing though.
it worked so far, so he probably wouldn't be willing to change it until now, that Max showed his weaknesses.
Now it will be interesting in seeing how he changes. Because the first loss (especially the way that happens) is what will determine if he can recover from this.
I think he will. he has good tools. He just need to improve one facet of his game.

 

[Vil7]

He was thinking ahead

Rener probably had several promos in his head for post fight how to sell Gracie Jiu Jitsu / Hero Hoodie

And he was probably high on the marijuanas

Rener smoked himself hetarded. He wanted to send his man out to be killed in the 5th round.

 

[Cpt Migraine]

I compare it to mountain climbing.. you never know if you can climb that fucker until you try.. how was he supposed to know if he can beat holloway beforehand? It's impossible..

When you climb you fall down if you fail.. when you fight you get whooped..

It's also very easy to say it wouldn't work in hindsight..