Overhead press excercise for shoulder strength

[spacetime]

I'm doing overhead press excercises with a loose heavy bag. It only weighs 39 pounds so I'm not at any risk of pulling a muscle or injuring my back.

But... does it do any good for a boxer? All I care about his shoulder strength.

Which parts of the body are at work in this excercise? And which one is working the most?

 

[Bodil]

So basically you're doing overhead presses with a 39lbs heavy bag? If all you care about is shoulder strength, I would maybe invest in some heavier DBs or an olympic bar. If you're limited equipment wise Pike Push Ups might be a decent option too, but a 39lbs Press won't do anything unless you're piss poor weak.

 

[spacetime]

So basically you're doing overhead presses with a 39lbs heavy bag? If all you care about is shoulder strength, I would maybe invest in some heavier DBs or an olympic bar. If you're limited equipment wise Pike Push Ups might be a decent option too, but a 39lbs Press won't do anything unless you're piss poor weak.

Define weak. How many repetitions should I be able to do with 39lbs heavy bag?

 

[Bodil]

Define weak. How many repetitions should I be able to do with 39lbs heavy bag?

It's hard to say how many reps you should get, that revolves more around endurance than strength. If it's any help, I can prob get 30-40 reps with 45lbs and my OHP 1RM is around 190-195lbs.


This website might be able to help you get an objective view of some strength standards: https://symmetricstrength.com/

The reps only go up to 10 however, because beyond that it's hard to extrapolate a 1RM from it.

I would say that the ''Advanced'' category puts you above 99.999% of the population, which is more than enough for combat sports.
To give you a perspective, a 30 years old male who weighs 170lbs, would have to (for 1 rep):

Overhead Press: 185lbs
Chin Ups: BW+117lbs
Deadlift: 438lbs
Front Squat: 305lbs

If a UFC LW has those numbers (170lbs is less than what most LWs walk around at, but we'll use that number for the argument's sake), he would be considered very strong for the LW division.

 

[spacetime]

It's hard to say how many reps you should get, that revolves more around endurance than strength. If it's any help, I can prob get 30-40 reps with 45lbs and my OHP 1RM is around 190-195lbs.


This website might be able to help you get an objective view of some strength standards: https://symmetricstrength.com/

The reps only go up to 10 however, because beyond that it's hard to extrapolate a 1RM from it.

I would say that the ''Advanced'' category puts you above 99.999% of the population, which is more than enough for combat sports.
To give you a perspective, a 30 years old male who weighs 170lbs, would have to (for 1 rep):

Overhead Press: 185lbs
Chin Ups: BW+117lbs
Deadlift: 438lbs
Front Squat: 305lbs

If a UFC LW has those numbers (170lbs is less than what most LWs walk around at, but we'll use that number for the argument's sake), he would be considered very strong for the LW division.

I can over head press 39lbs in one go 25 times. I weight about 154 pounds.Where does that place me? I can probably double that in a week but it's my current best.

 

[Bodil]

I can over head press 39lbs in one go 25 times. I weight about 154 pounds.Where does that place me? I can probably double that in a week but it's my current best.

I highly doubt you could DOUBLE that in a week, doubling anything is basically unheard of unless you're coming off a debilitating injury. Like I said, if you're solely interested in strength, lower rep ranges might benefit you more, for example between 3 to 12 reps (with a weight you can handle for that many reps). It's very hard to estimate someone's strength based on a 25RM. If I had to guess, I would say that 25 x 39lbs at 154lbs is at the very least above average.

If I were you, I would invest in one dumbell, adjustable (between like 5lbs to 80lbs) and try to build a strength base with: DB Overhead Press, DB Rows, Single DB RDL and Goblet Squats (these include the 4 basic human movements PUSH/PULL/HINGE/SQUAT and allow you to progress). There are also great BW movements that require very little equipement like Push Ups, Bird Dogs, Reverse Hypers, Back Extensions, Lunges Dips, Planks, Chin Ups, Split Squats, Hill Sprints, etc. which would also help greatly. Bands are also a very space efficient and cheap option.

Keep in mind, a boxer's power comes mostly from the legs/core. When I throw a punch, my arm acts much like an extension of my body and I generate the force from the ground up. Therefore muscles other than shoulders should not be neglected.

 

[spacetime]

I highly doubt you could DOUBLE that in a week, doubling anything is basically unheard of unless you're coming off a debilitating injury. Like I said, if you're solely interested in strength, lower rep ranges might benefit you more, for example between 3 to 12 reps (with a weight you can handle for that many reps). It's very hard to estimate someone's strength based on a 25RM. If I had to guess, I would say that 25 x 39lbs at 154lbs is at the very least above average.

If I were you, I would invest in one dumbell, adjustable (between like 5lbs to 80lbs) and try to build a strength base with: DB Overhead Press, DB Rows, Single DB RDL and Goblet Squats (these include the 4 basic human movements PUSH/PULL/HINGE/SQUAT and allow you to progress). There are also great BW movements that require very little equipement like Push Ups, Bird Dogs, Reverse Hypers, Back Extensions, Lunges Dips, Planks, Chin Ups, Split Squats, Hill Sprints, etc. which would also help greatly. Bands are also a very space efficient and cheap option.

Keep in mind, a boxer's power comes mostly from the legs/core. When I throw a punch, my arm acts much like an extension of my body and I generate the force from the ground up. Therefore muscles other than shoulders should not be neglected.

Doubling that is easy since 25 times is a sissy result. The average man is weak. I am lifting that thing every day and improving daily.

A gym instructor told me that longer repetitions with small weights will build enduring muscles, which what I am looking for in boxing. Not big ones. And 39lbs is small weights

 

[spacetime]

"Shoulder-Specific
You usually lift less weight in the overhead press than you do in a squat, deadlift or bench press because the primary movers are small muscles."

So it seems this wasn't such a bad idea after all

 

[spacetime]

Maybe doubling was an exaggeration. Lets says 40 inside 7 days.

To be continued

 

[spacetime]

Keep in mind, a boxer's power comes mostly from the legs/core. When I throw a punch, my arm acts much like an extension of my body and I generate the force from the ground up. Therefore muscles other than shoulders should not be neglected.

The effort it takes from the legs is. negligable. I base that on the fact that my arms and shoulders get tired from punching a heavy bag, not the legs.

Also, to keep the shoulder strong is Important in order to maintain and nurture a good jab.

 

[deadshot138]

It's hard to say how many reps you should get, that revolves more around endurance than strength. If it's any help, I can prob get 30-40 reps with 45lbs and my OHP 1RM is around 190-195lbs.


This website might be able to help you get an objective view of some strength standards: https://symmetricstrength.com/

The reps only go up to 10 however, because beyond that it's hard to extrapolate a 1RM from it.

I would say that the ''Advanced'' category puts you above 99.999% of the population, which is more than enough for combat sports.
To give you a perspective, a 30 years old male who weighs 170lbs, would have to (for 1 rep):

Overhead Press: 185lbs
Chin Ups: BW+117lbs
Deadlift: 438lbs
Front Squat: 305lbs

If a UFC LW has those numbers (170lbs is less than what most LWs walk around at, but we'll use that number for the argument's sake), he would be considered very strong for the LW division.

I’m advanced or exceptional at everything except chin ups, I haven’t pushed them yet

 

[Bodil]

All I care about his shoulder strength.

longer repetitions with small weights will build enduring muscles, which what I am looking for in boxing.

You gotta make up your mind on what you want or what you're asking. You literally asked for advise for strength, got it, then dismissed it saying you're only looking for endurance.

"Shoulder-Specific
You usually lift less weight in the overhead press than you do in a squat, deadlift or bench press because the primary movers are small muscles."

So it seems this wasn't such a bad idea after all

Yeah... less weight as in 135lbs instead of 400lbs. Not 39lbs lol

The bottom line is, you gotta ask yourself what is your GOAL. Do you want stronger shoulders? More muscle endurance in your shoulders? Why? You wanna be able to establish a jab and not tire out? There are so many variables to this, it goes beyond ''wanting to do more reps with 39lbs''. If you want to build a solid jab and endurance... jab more. Do jab drills.

A minimum standard of strength is required for fighting, but for conditioning and endurance, nothing beats specificity. If you want to build boxing endurance, box. If you want to run longer, run. If you want to get better at swimming, swim.

I’m advanced or exceptional at everything except chin ups, I haven’t pushed them yet

That's very solid, current stats/lifts/routine?

 

[spacetime]

You gotta make up your mind on what you want or what you're asking. You literally asked for advise for strength, got it, then dismissed it saying you're only looking for endurance.



Yeah... less weight as in 135lbs instead of 400lbs. Not 39lbs lol

The bottom line is, you gotta ask yourself what is your GOAL. Do you want stronger shoulders? More muscle endurance in your shoulders? Why? You wanna be able to establish a jab and not tire out? There are so many variables to this, it goes beyond ''wanting to do more reps with 39lbs''. If you want to build a solid jab and endurance... jab more. Do jab drills.

A minimum standard of strength is required for fighting, but for conditioning and endurance, nothing beats specificity. If you want to build boxing endurance, box. If you want to run longer, run. If you want to get better at swimming, swim.




That's very solid, current stats/lifts/routine?

Why is it so hard to grasp that one does not exclude the other? I want both stronger and more enduring arms. Mainly enduring but also stronger. My jab is very hard already but I can probably crank it up a bit with some shoulder training. And I Secondly want enduring shoulders so that my jab stays a potent weapon for longer periods of time.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

you are going to want to train the jab on the heavy bag and in sparring for a more enduring jab

you are going to want to train the overhead press with a barbell for shoulder strength in a progressive manner

 

[Bodil]

Why is it so hard to grasp that one does not exclude the other? I want both stronger and more enduring arms. Mainly enduring but also stronger. My jab is very hard already but I can probably crank it up a bit with some shoulder training. And I Secondly want enduring shoulders so that my jab stays a potent weapon for longer periods of time.

Well it's so hard to grasp because you literally said that you are ONLY INTERESTED IN STENGTH in your original post. The correct way to behave, would be to say sorry for voicing your idea so poorly, and then explaining what you're really after instead of bashing someone trying to help you.

I'm out. Good luck with your endurance/jabbing/strength goals in 2018.

you are going to want to train the jab on the heavy bag and in sparring for a more enduring jab

you are going to want to train the overhead press with a barbell for shoulder strength in a progressive manner

Thank you... I was trying to help the guy but he comes off as pretty dense as this point.

 

[spacetime]

Well it's so hard to grasp because you literally said that you are ONLY INTERESTED IN STENGTH in your original post. The correct way to behave, would be to say sorry for voicing your idea so poorly, and then explaining what you're really after instead of bashing someone trying to help you.

I'm out. Good luck with your endurance/jabbing/strength goals in 2018.



Thank you... I was trying to help the guy but he comes off as pretty dense as this point.

I stand by my original statement. There are different types of strength.

1. the quality or state of being physically strong.
   "cycling can help you build up your strength"
   synonymer: power, brawn, brawniness, muscle, muscularity, burliness, sturdiness, robustness, toughness, hardiness, lustiness;Mer
   
   
2. 2.
   the capacity of an object or substance to withstand great force or pressure."
   

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

@Bodil, you have way more patience than I could for the condescending prick that just wants everyone to agree lifting a 39# heavy bag is a good shoulder workout lol

 

[JauntyAngle]

@Bodil, you have way more patience than I could for the condescending prick that just wants everyone to agree lifting a 39# heavy bag is a good shoulder workout lol

Yep. We get this type of poster here every now and then. Comes here insisting on validation of what they have decided to do... usually not actually knowing anything... gets huffy or actively loses their shit when said validation is not forthcoming.

 

[deadshot138]

You gotta make up your mind on what you want or what you're asking. You literally asked for advise for strength, got it, then dismissed it saying you're only looking for endurance.



Yeah... less weight as in 135lbs instead of 400lbs. Not 39lbs lol

The bottom line is, you gotta ask yourself what is your GOAL. Do you want stronger shoulders? More muscle endurance in your shoulders? Why? You wanna be able to establish a jab and not tire out? There are so many variables to this, it goes beyond ''wanting to do more reps with 39lbs''. If you want to build a solid jab and endurance... jab more. Do jab drills.

A minimum standard of strength is required for fighting, but for conditioning and endurance, nothing beats specificity. If you want to build boxing endurance, box. If you want to run longer, run. If you want to get better at swimming, swim.




That's very solid, current stats/lifts/routine?

BW 330
Bench:375x3
Squat:535x3
Press:275x3
Deadlift:620x1
Chin up: 3 dead hang
Running Wendlers 5/3/1 presently

 

[spacetime]

@Bodil, you have way more patience than I could for the condescending prick that just wants everyone to agree lifting a 39# heavy bag is a good shoulder workout lol

Why do I see clear strength diffference, including lifting it, and visible muscles if there is no benefit? There comes a point of diminishing returns but I am far away from that right now.