PM May: Highly Likely Russia Behind Spy Attack

[snakedafunky]

You mean why is the West uniting against Russia?

No I mean what are the benefits of the UK to falsely claim it was Russia? There are none.
Why its pretty clear why Russia would deny it.
The West doesn't want to unite against Russia they want to do business with Russia. As shown proven by Germany/Western Europes and Russians extensive business ties especially when it comes to natural gas. And they're reluctant to agree to sanctions. The UK itself just bought a lot of natural gas from Russia.

It's just that there are elements around Putin for whom it is so important to stay in power that they go to these measures.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

The United States is a democracy and yet they completely lied about WMDs in Iraq and invaded the country on those lies.

So why are democracies so inherently believable? Because CNN says so?

US isnt a democracy. They represent themselves as such but when asked to defend it claim they are a republic, aka 'limited democracy' and in reality are an oligarchy.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

There was no paper trail linking Hitler to the Holocaust. Are you saying Hitler wasn't responsible?

Except we actually know Hitler did it.

We don't know Gadaffi did anything, and in fact, new evidence over the the last few years is actually pointing to the fact that he had nothing to do with it.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...erbie-bombing-has-truth-finally-been-revealed

"What is the new evidence?
Abolghassem Mesbahi has told Al Jazeera that the Lockerbie bombing was ordered by Iran and carried out by a Syrian-based terrorist group. Previously unseen evidence gathered for Megrahi's appeal hearing, abandoned after he was released from prison, supports Mesbahi's claim. It suggests the bombers belonged to the extremist group the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC). A former CIA agent also told the documentary that the CIA and the National Security Agency had originally believed the PFLP-GC had carried out the bombing, sponsored by Iran. However, he said the investigation suddenly switched its focus to Libya following a telephone call between President George H W Bush and Lady Thatcher in March 1989. The documentary suggest this might have been because the US did not want to antagonise Syria, which joined forces with the US and Britain to fight Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War."



There's your democracy telling truths. Even the victims' families are fighting against the UK government for convicting Megrahi and hiding the truth.

 

[tonni]

The story of Occam's razor informs us that the UK government probably hired some Tatar jews to make the Brexit look bad by committing an attack with a chemical weapon.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Except we actually know Hitler did it.

We don't know Gadaffi did anything, and in fact, new evidence over the the last few years is actually pointing to the fact that he had nothing to do with it.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...erbie-bombing-has-truth-finally-been-revealed

"What is the new evidence?
Abolghassem Mesbahi has told Al Jazeera that the Lockerbie bombing was ordered by Iran and carried out by a Syrian-based terrorist group. Previously unseen evidence gathered for Megrahi's appeal hearing, abandoned after he was released from prison, supports Mesbahi's claim. It suggests the bombers belonged to the extremist group the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC). A former CIA agent also told the documentary that the CIA and the National Security Agency had originally believed the PFLP-GC had carried out the bombing, sponsored by Iran. However, he said the investigation suddenly switched its focus to Libya following a telephone call between President George H W Bush and Lady Thatcher in March 1989. The documentary suggest this might have been because the US did not want to antagonise Syria, which joined forces with the US and Britain to fight Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War."



There's your democracy telling truths. Even the victims' families are fighting against the UK government for convicting Megrahi and hiding the truth.

The Libyans paid over $2 Billion in compensation, money which they could ill afford. Yes, they did it in order to have sanctions lifted. But if there was irrefutable evidence they were not responsible, they would have released it to the world's media and sanctions would have been lifted for a fraction of the cost.

 

[KnightTemplar]

The story of Occam's razor informs us that the UK government probably hired some Tatar jews to make the Brexit look bad by committing an attack with a chemical weapon.

Of course! it all makes sense now!

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

Because there are checks and balances in a democratic nation. Don't like what your government is doing in your name? Protest against it. Vote out the politicians you feel do not have your nation's best interests at heart. Those are your rights under the American Constitution, or the legal system of the United Kingdom.

Try the same thing in Russia and, if you are very, very lucky, you'll just be thrown in jail. If you're unlucky, a bullet in the head isn't even the worse thing that can happen.

I'm going to do you the courtesy of assuming you are playing Devil's Advocate in this thread. Not many people are stupid enough to actually suggest a moral equivalency between Putin's Russia and the UK or America.

Checks and balances that can easily be sidestepped by big cheques and large bank statements.


There are plenty of people that don't like what the U.S. government is doing in their name...... they even protest.... but guess what? The U.S. is still supplying arms to "rebels" in Syria.

There's plenty of people that want gun control? Nope, that'll never happen.

Acting like the U.S., or probably even the UK, is an actual true democracy is outright hilarious and almost maniacally naive.

 

[KnightTemplar]

No I mean what are the benefits of the UK to falsely claim it was Russia? There are none.
Why its pretty clear why Russia would deny it.
The West doesn't want to unite against Russia they want to do business with Russia. As shown proven by Germany/Western Europes and Russians extensive business ties especially when it comes to natural gas. And they're reluctant to agree to sanctions. The UK itself just bought a lot of natural gas from Russia.

It's just that there are elements around Putin for whom it is so important to stay in power that they go to these measures.

But...but...America did some bad things too!

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

The Libyans paid over $2 Billion in compensation, money which they could ill afford. Yes, they did it in order to have sanctions lifted. But if there was irrefutable evidence they were not responsible, they would have released it to the world's media and sanctions would have been lifted for a fraction of the cost.

So you're just going to ignore all of the new evidence and even CIA operatives saying that it wasn't Libya.

You already answered why Gadaffi took responsibility. He needed to get rid of sanctions.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

But...but...America did some bad things too!

You sound like a naive little child.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

Putin said we should give him the evidence.

Because he wanted to also do an investigation for something that he is being blamed for.

If you were accused of murder, you wouldn't want to see the evidence against you?

 

[Rational Poster]

Because he wanted to also do an investigation for something that he is being blamed for.

If you were accused of murder, you wouldn't want to see the evidence against you?

Well, it seems like the material happened to be spread all over British civilians, so he might have to make a trip there if he wants to see it.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Checks and balances that can easily be sidestepped by big cheques and large bank statements.


There are plenty of people that don't like what the U.S. government is doing in their name...... they even protest.... but guess what? The U.S. is still supplying arms to "rebels" in Syria.

There's plenty of people that want gun control? Nope, that'll never happen.

Acting like the U.S., or probably even the UK, is an actual true democracy is outright hilarious and almost maniacally naive.

At least they are still alive. A lot of people who protest against Putin wind up catching a nasty case of death.

Want change? Fight harder. A lot of people said the South would never be desegregated. They were wrong. Because very brave men and women refused to give up, even with the odds stacked against them.

Acting as though Russia can be viewed as the moral equal of the UK or US is retarded.

Democracy is the worst form of government, unless one compares it to all the other ways that have been tried from time to time.
- Winston Churchill

 

[KnightTemplar]

So you're just going to ignore all of the new evidence and even CIA operatives saying that it wasn't Libya.

You already answered why Gadaffi took responsibility. He needed to get rid of sanctions.

The same CIA operatives you claim lied about WMD's in Iraq? Make up your mind.

And as I pointed out, if the evidence was there, Gadaffi would have released it and forced America and the UN to lift the sanctions for a fraction of the price.

 

[Deleted member 491001]

You mean apart from Gadaffi accepting responsibility for the attack and paying compensation to the relatives of some of the victims in 2003?

Claiming responsibility and actually ordering it to be done are two separate things.

He always denied ordering it to be done.

Interesting piece on this topic from March 8th:

http://www.newsweek.com/now-mattis-...people-801542?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

In addition to Mattis:

"Serious, experienced chemical weapons experts and investigators such as Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, Gareth Porter and Theodore Postol have all cast doubt on “official” American narratives regarding President Assad employing Sarin.

These analysts have all focused on the technical aspects of the two attacks and found them not to be consistent with the use of nation-state quality Sarin munitions."

And:

"The 2013 Ghouta event, for example, employed home-made rockets of the type favored by insurgents. The White House Memorandum on Khan Sheikhoun seemed to rely heavily on testimony from the Syrian White Helmets who were filmed at the scene having contact with supposed Sarin-tainted casualties and not suffering any ill effects.

Likewise, these same actors were filmed wearing chemical weapons training suits around the supposed “point of impact” in Khan Sheikhoun, something which makes their testimony (and samples) highly suspect. A training suit offers no protection at all, and these people would all be dead if they had come into contact with real military-grade Sarin."

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

At least they are still alive. A lot of people who protest against Putin wind up catching a nasty case of death.

Want change? Fight harder. A lot of people said the South would never be desegregated. They were wrong. Because very brave men and women refused to give up, even with the odds stacked against them.

Acting as though Russia can be viewed as the moral equal of the UK or US is retarded.

Democracy is the worst form of government, unless one compares it to all the other ways that have been tried from time to time.
- Winston Churchill

Arguing over who is more morally worse - Russia or the U.S. - is like watching John Wayne Gacy and Ed Gein argue over who's the better person. They both do atrocious things and then point their fingers at each other like school children while saying "He's the bad man." If you want to see countries with actual morals look at Australia, Canada, Japan (now), the Scandinavian countries, etc.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

The same CIA operatives you claim lied about WMD's in Iraq? Make up your mind.

And as I pointed out, if the evidence was there, Gadaffi would have released it and forced America and the UN to lift the sanctions for a fraction of the price.

You're right. If the evidence was there at the time, Gadaffi would have released it.


Unfortunately, the CIA had him killed by then.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

Well, it seems like the material happened to be spread all over British civilians, so he might have to make a trip there if he wants to see it.

Are you saying they don't have samples of it?

If they don't, then what evidence do they have it was a Russian gas?

 

[Deleted member 491001]

Everyone remember the '03 "duct tape and plastic sheeting" suggestions for staying safe, in case of a bio/neuro attack, from the W admin?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-terror-ducttape-ct-story,amp.html

Well lookey here, a "washing machines and baby wipes kill nerve gas" narrative emerging from this event:

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1GN0AK

"(Reuters) - Hundreds of people who visited the Zizzi restaurant or the Mill pub in the English city of Salisbury were told on Sunday to wash their clothes after traces of nerve agent used to attack a former Russian spy last week were found at both sites."

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1GO0MS

"Jenny Harries, deputy medical director at Public Health England, suggested members of the public who had visited the same restaurant and pub as Skripal and his daughter on March 4 should wash their clothes, clean phones and bags with baby wipes and wash items such as jewellery and spectacles with warm water and detergent."

I mean, if a 63 year old man didn't die after experiencing patient 0 status of a nerve gas that can be 5-10 times more powerful than VX (which can kill in minutes) then I agree the public in the vicinity aren't at a tremendous risk.

However...

could the world please agree to stop these types of recommendations? This makes hiding under a desk to protect yourself in case of a nuclear attack sound downright well thought out.

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

Interesting piece on this topic from March 8th:

http://www.newsweek.com/now-mattis-...people-801542?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

In addition to Mattis:

"Serious, experienced chemical weapons experts and investigators such as Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, Gareth Porter and Theodore Postol have all cast doubt on “official” American narratives regarding President Assad employing Sarin.

These analysts have all focused on the technical aspects of the two attacks and found them not to be consistent with the use of nation-state quality Sarin munitions."

And:

"The 2013 Ghouta event, for example, employed home-made rockets of the type favored by insurgents. The White House Memorandum on Khan Sheikhoun seemed to rely heavily on testimony from the Syrian White Helmets who were filmed at the scene having contact with supposed Sarin-tainted casualties and not suffering any ill effects.

Likewise, these same actors were filmed wearing chemical weapons training suits around the supposed “point of impact” in Khan Sheikhoun, something which makes their testimony (and samples) highly suspect. A training suit offers no protection at all, and these people would all be dead if they had come into contact with real military-grade Sarin."

Nothing at all makes sense in that whole 'Assad used sarin gas in Ghouta and Khan Sheikhoun' narrative.