Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Ranzou**, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:33 AM.
Are you even trying to follow your own argument here?
So what you are saying is that someone who supports women's rights should just let them continue to be the victims of FGM in their 3rd world countries?
Seems to me that someone who supports the rights of women would in turn be in favor of allowing these people to be placed in an environment where there are laws in place that discourage practices such as FGM. Of course people don't change overnight, but it certainly gives them a better opportunity for having rights to actually be in America.
you're under the impression that importing people from societies w/ EXTREME problems w/ pederasty/bestiality/sodomy/rape/complete subjugation of women will produce outstanding members of society.....
which is uh odd, to say the least.
A clear cut example of hypocrisy that I saw was in Seattle at a Palestianian down with Israel rah rah rah rally where.......Code Pink was with them......they....do know what happens to women over in those countries..right? Or is this purely a case of them being THAT stupendously stupid
Well yes, I know many people from the middle east, from some very troubled countries, and they are many of the best people I know.
It turns out, that being from an area does not mean you fit all of the bizarre stereotypes that idiots on the internet spread about you.
Of all the Muslims I know, and there's a dozens, not a single one subjugates women or rapes animals. But they are lawyers, doctors, teachers, artists, etc. It's almost like real people are not living, walking, right wing memes. Who would have thought?
And yes, I'm glad they were able to come here, and have daughters who can grow up in a free society. That is why their families came here, for freedom and opportunity, just like my family.
on an individual basis, perhaps this makes sense (i'd disagree, but whatever)
but Somalia has a literal 98% FGM rate....are we bringing them all? if not, which ones? any boys or men?
It's not our problem to fix other shit tier societies, bringing a few hundred or thousand here does nothing to change the issues pervasive there.[/QUOTE]
I'm not claiming that I have the perfect solution, however, it doesn't seem like turning a blind eye and telling them to stay in a country where FGM happens is very supportive of women's rights.
I'm simply criticizing your argument that someone who supports the immigration of these people is in some way hypocritical to supporting women's rights.
Your suggestion is to just leave them there, when I'm contending that bringing them here and allowing, let's say their kids to be born here, assimilate, and grow up under our system of laws, plays a big part in slowly eroding practices such as FGM.
If you dont then also bring the men responsible for that environment....id agree
From a nationality standpoint, there are arguments to made. From an ideological standpoint, there are not.
Feminists and LGBT groups supporting Islam for instance, is completely ridiculous, as even in it's most moderate form, Islam still looks down on, and oppress those groups, even within the borders of free societies like America.
That would be obviously hypocritical, but I've never seen a feminists or LGBT activists come out to defend the tenants of Islam.
Do you have an example of this? I'm not asking for a picture of an anonymous somebody at a rally somewhere holding a sign, I'm talking about an actual feminist or LGBT activist speaking in favor of the tenants of Islam?
I feel like that point is brought up a lot, but nobody ever responds when I ask for an example.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Victims? That's a very ethnocentric view bordering on plain bigotry.
@Leagon assured me that FGM does not turn women into "victims", but instead is a cultural act of female empowerment, whereby the women performing said mutilations are asserting their sense of agency by being the ones doing the procedure.
So FGM should not be looked at as harming women, depriving them of sexual pleasure, or as a form of reproductive control by males who need to secure their property, but as a cultural beacon of female independence and freedom.
Makes perfect sense if you don't think about it.
The fact that you're asking for a specific kind of support, is a bit telling. You've obviously seen the hypocrisy at pro-Muslim immigration rallies, and the people who lost their shit at Trump's Muslim ban, and others suggesting that Islam is a danger to the nation, and you want to somehow not equate that with feminists supporting Islam. Liberals in general contradict themselves on this, and not just straight up feminists. Pro-feminism, Pro-gay, Pro-Muslim....???
One of those things is not like the other.
You're also downplaying the ignorance(willful in a lot of cases), and dishonesty it takes in having such a hypocritical stance. It's the stubborn double standards where the hypocrisy is born, so I don't know why you expect to see a western feminist go into detail over their support of the tenants of Islam, because they simply can not without being made to look foolish. What you do see on occasion, and what I could find are "Muslim feminists" downplaying the "stereotypes" of the cultures they come from, and not equating the brutality of vast majority of Muslim regimes with the "true" interpretation of Islam.
There is just not a black and white answer man. You are not a hypocrite if you just ease up on black and white thinking. Today many people are polarizing to extremes. It is ok to be in many camps at once issue for issue.
For me, a key factor in hypocrisy is not just holding double standards, contradictory views, or flip-flopping on issues. It is the pretense that these things are not so.
Is an alcoholic who tells people that drinking is wrong a hypocrite? Not necessarily. But a person hiding their own drunkenness who tell people that drinking is wrong and pretend to be righteous in this regard is a hypocrite. My understanding is that word itself derives from the Greek word for actor and acting is a key element in hypocrisy.
Right. People are confusing support for religious freedom with support for the particular tenets of a religion. Our system is founded on the idea that you can believe whatever you want as long as you follow the laws.
Hypocrisy isn't failing to follow every opinion or principle held by those in the same party as you. And that mindset is frightening.
Political hypocrisy is like FoxNews and Trump's twitter when Obama was president, in comparison to FoxNews and Trump's twitter today. People who scream to the heavens about what they believe when someone they don't like is in office(religion, 2nd Amendment, Economic policy, pay-for-play), to pretending the issue is "no big deal" when someone they do like is in office.
You said feminists and LGBT groups supporting Islam, so I asked you for examples of feminists and LGBT groups supporting the tenets of Islam.
Are you telling me that there are not examples of that? If not, why is it such a common talking point? Was it on a meme or something?
And please distinguish between supporting religious freedom and supporting the tenets of a specific religion. That is a clear distinction but I see it ignored for political hack reasons often. Honesty is important here.
I want to see an example of somebody supporting women's rights, and then supporting the subjugation of women by Muslims. For such a common talking point there should be lots of examples of this. If not, maybe it is time to move onto a different talking point that has more basis in reality.
I think it is deliberate and immoral to equate support for religious freedom with support for specific religious ideals.
I do not respect people who twist the truth just for a talking point.
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