Pope Francis declared having an abortion after finding birth defects in an unborn child was...

LOL another scathing retort.

You've had nothing to offer this entire thread, outside of empty platitudes. Just call it quits already.

I gave you the "get out of jail" Nazi and Hitler card, for free, and you still managed to screw it up, by pulling that card about half a hundred times until it no longer meant anything.
 
According to several studies, people with Down’s syndrome are happy and lives a fulfilling life. The same with their families!

So I’m not onboard with the eugenics train.
 
According to several studies, people with Down’s syndrome are happy and lives a fulfilling life. The same with their families!

So I’m not onboard with the eugenics train.

That might be because the people who raise the Down's children, actually wanted them. But what would happen it the parents did not want them?

My grandfathers and grandmothers still lived in an age where raising a handicapped child was a tremendous burden, with little to no assistance from the society. They still raised one of my uncles, who was physically handicapped. He has lived a decent life.

However, even with having had a personal relationship with people who suffer from disabilities, I cannot say that the world would be worse off, if there were less people with disabilities. Unlike Hitler may have imagined, the lack of them won't really fix any of the problems either, as physically healthy and capable individuals are bound to possibly cost even more resources, especially if they are raised badly, by parents irresponsible enough to have an itchy trigger finger on the abort button.

There is no way to control "over-population" in a way that won't step into amoral and potentially immoral territory. If anybody actually pretends to "care" about over-population, as many people seem to, then issues such as disabled people's right to be born to unwilling parents, are not necessarily at the fore-front of their priorities. Humanism is a great thing, sure, but it may not be the leading ideology of the future, if its advocates don't really come up with any potent solutions to future problems. The platitudes of the Pope will be drowned out by the realities of running a human society, as they always have been.
 
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That might be because the people who raise the Down's children, actually wanted them. But what would happen it the parents did not want them?

My grandfathers and grandmothers still lived in an age where raising a handicapped child was a tremendous burden, with little to no assistance from the society. They still raised one of my uncles, who was physically handicapped. He has lived a decent life.

However, even with having had a personal relationship with people who suffer from disabilities, I cannot say that the world would be worse off, if there were less people with disabilities. Unlike Hitler may have imagined, the lack of them won't really fix any of the problems either, as physically healthy and capable individuals are bound to possibly cost even more resources, especially if they are raised badly.

There is no way to control "over-population" in a way that won't step into amoral and potentially immoral territory. If anybody actually pretends to "care" about over-population, as many people seem to, then issues such as disabled people's right to be born to unwilling parents, are not necessarily at the fore-front of their priorities. Humanism is a great thing but it may not be the leading ideology of the future, if its advocates don't really come up with any potent solutions to future problems.
Over population in the West is not a problem but rather in Asia and Africa.

I’m glad that your uncle lived a decent life and it is telling of your family’s dedication and care.

No unwanted child, healthy or not will live a decent life if its parents don’t want it.

I just wish that people used protection instead of doing away with unwanted children.
 
Over population in the West is not a problem but rather in Asia and Africa.

I’m glad that your uncle lived a decent life and it is telling of your family’s dedication and care.

No unwanted child, healthy or not will live a decent life if its parents don’t want it.

I just wish that people used protection instead of doing away with unwanted children.

Asia's and Africa's problems around bound to become the West's problems, eventually, as we have already seen. There is no escaping over-population, in the global world. Even closed borders will, at best, be a temporary measure, not a long-term solution.

I'm moderately against abortion in many Western countries because the decline of births and aging of populations is unsustainable. However, the Pope's word holds a lot more weight in the countries where birth control and abortions probably ought to be considered as a valid option to stabilize growth, back to sustainable levels. We are talking about regions that are reaching billions of people, or will, in the coming times. The Pope's "good-will" is not going to fix any of that.

Preventative measures are certainly more respectable than abortions. But as crude as abortions are, they're nothing like Nazi eugenics. It's the methods which were used, on fully developed humans, against their will, along with the under-lying agendas, which disgraced the Nazi regime's attempts of "population control" (which in the end, amounted to nothing more than a massive post-war baby boom, a globe with double the number of humans than what it used to have).

Humans are bound to reproduce more and more if they feel existentially threatened, by competing agendas, by rival groups, by catastrophes, or whatever. The real solution lies in being able to convince them that they are not actually endangered by "competitors", and that they may actually endanger themselves even more by continuing to reproduce in unsustainable numbers.
 
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To have an easy life, they get rid of an innocent.

It's actually about the harshness of the life of the down syndrome person.

Under Nazi eugenics programmes, hundreds of thousands of people were forcibly sterilised and tens of thousands killed in an attempt to 'clean' the chain of heredity of those with physical or cognitive disabilities.

So not alike at all.



So two points, and both without merit.

I'm afraid 'homeboy' isn't presenting a winning moral argument.

 
Over population in the West is not a problem but rather in Asia and Africa.

I’m glad that your uncle lived a decent life and it is telling of your family’s dedication and care.

No unwanted child, healthy or not will live a decent life if its parents don’t want it.

I just wish that people used protection instead of doing away with unwanted children.
Over population in the west seems to have the potential to be a bigger issue, for the whole world, as we use up resources and expand.
 
I don't really see the problem?

Any real honest, loving parent would tell you that if they had any say in the matter, they would prefer to give birth to a healthy baby over a retarded one. Why wouldn't you want your child to be born with the best mental facilities as possible? I know it may sound callous at first but it's not, and if science has a way to make it possible, then why not support it?

Only sensible way you could be against it IMO is if you're completely against abortion outright. This is one of the best reasons one could possibly want an abortion.
 
Over population in the west seems to have the potential to be a bigger issue, for the whole world, as we use up resources and expand.
If that is the case, I have a bold solution. Close the borders to immigrants because the population in America would decline otherwise, the same with most of Europe.

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Your avatar is triggering me with its subtle racism.

You should look at my avatar instead. bork1}

Yeah you'd probably think Steroids but at least it's not racism. <Y2JSmirk>
 
i think he worded it wrong but english not his first language neither is mine. But i think he is getting at is progressive countries today like Iceland can clearly see the benefit in helping people and preventing people from living in horrible conditions or have bad lives.

That wasn't just wrong. That was....yeah... <Huh2>
 
You don't know shit about the Nazis, outside of what you've read on U.S. propaganda.

Now go read how much of your good ol' American science was founded on ground-work laid out by the Nazis. Do you know why all those scientists who did the Nazi human experimentations, all that grisly shit you've heard about in your little Hollywood depictions, never got convicted of any crimes? Because your boys in the CIA and the government protected them, in order to benefit from their work. Seized them as U.S. assets and put them to work, the same kind of work they always did.

That's the reality.

Where you live, or where the Pope lives, is not reality. It's some fantasy utopia where everybody gets to have a feel-good ending. Hate to break it to you, but they don't.

Today, at the very least, we possess the capacity to make it more certain that a person can lead somewhat of a decent life.
How many people have been killed by people with Down Syndrome?
How many wars started? How many species eradicated?
 
I don't really see the problem?

Any real honest, loving parent would tell you that if they had any say in the matter, they would prefer to give birth to a healthy baby over a retarded one. Why wouldn't you want your child to be born with the best mental facilities as possible? I know it may sound callous at first but it's not, and if science has a way to make it possible, then why not support it?

Only sensible way you could be against it IMO is if you're completely against abortion outright. This is one of the best reasons one could possibly want an abortion.

Thats not really the argument. The argument is that just because you may want a perfect baby doesn't mean you should abort any and all that are not.
 
I'm against abortion but think the Pope is trash. You can be two things.
 
Go on, keep touting the Nazis. I love watching assholes like you self destruct.

How so? Touting Nazis is the new way to get what you want.
You can't have an opinion that's against illegal immigration without being called a Nazi.
Shit is ridiculous.
 
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