Positioning and what it means to you - Pt. 1:

[WillW]

Great videos Sullivan. Pirog is a beast

How can you prefer one to the other? A drop step is completely different from a hop step. That's a bit like saying you prefer the jab to the shoulder roll.

As my base footwork, Meaning what I do most of the time. But I do HOPSTEP A LOT. your right they are different tools, depending on the situation, 1 could be better than the other. And I also incorporate a lot of other types of footwork as well. It all flows together. Making the choice of what to use at a given time.

 

[sourdiesel209]

Yes, I more or less agree with this. It takes me a long time to warm up to the point where I can confidently step off the center line, too, but once I find my rhythm that's precisely what I start doing. You can land all of your punches from your starting position, but it's often better to move around to create the most efficient angles for them. Provided you're aware of the risks, of course.



How can you prefer one to the other? A drop step is completely different from a hop step. That's a bit like saying you prefer the jab to the shoulder roll.

lol what exactly is a drop step?

 

[Discipulus]

lol what exactly is a drop step?

Same thing as a trigger step. Look up Jack Dempsey's straight jolt.

 

[shpboris]

Interesting video that is related to discussion -

[YT]58WvLbXwY-M[/YT]

 

[a guy]

Here's a visual reference. Jacobs was obviously frustrated and about stopped throwing his jab because he couldn't find it. Pirog is also an excellent example of what Sin mentioned earlier "hiding inside".

That's definitely a good example. Pirog was great with his distance in that fight.

 

[sourdiesel209]

Same thing as a trigger step. Look up Jack Dempsey's straight jolt.

so its like a step jab?

 

[Discipulus]

so its like a step jab?

Yes, but you land flat-footed and drop your weight onto the lead foot. You can do it with either hand, too. It's just a way to add body weight to a single punch.

 

[sourdiesel209]

Yes, but you land flat-footed and drop your weight onto the lead foot. You can do it with either hand, too. It's just a way to add body weight to a single punch.

Now that you say that, landing flat flooted does seem to add more power to the step jab since I used to land on the ball of the feet, altho that way still seems a bit faster but less powerful. Hmm with the other hand it would be like a normal step in lead right?

 

[Redtarget]

His center line doesn't have to be exposed for you to be facing it. For example this is facing the center line . . .

. . . but so is this:

Bumped this thread to re-read some stuff... a lot of great information in here. With out starting a new thread, I just wanted to make sure this is correct (not knocking you Disc, im a fan of your stuff) but I thought facing the center was making sure your foot was on the inside? I didn't know the second picture was also a way to do that, I thought that was just creating an angle on someone and attacking. I guess I missed the point on this topic a little. Can you or anyone clarify this??? Maybe explain.

 

[Sinister]

The center of the body is the center of the body. If I point my foot at the center of your body, where your foot is doesn't matter.

 

[Redtarget]

The center of the body is the center of the body. If I point my foot at the center of your body, where your foot is doesn't matter.

Makes sense enough. I feel the majority of threads I've seen talk about the centerline theory and southpaws/orthodox situation came up, the position favored the guy with the foot on the inside. That's why I was confused...

 

[Discipulus]

Makes sense enough. I feel the majority of threads I've seen talk about the centerline theory and southpaws/orthodox situation came up, the position favored the guy with the foot on the inside. That's why I was confused...

It's not about where the foot is placed, but where it's pointed. "Get your foot outside/inside his" oversimplifies the matter.

 

[Sinister]

Makes sense enough. I feel the majority of threads I've seen talk about the centerline theory and southpaws/orthodox situation came up, the position favored the guy with the foot on the inside. That's why I was confused...

There is not, nor has there ever been, anything wrong with utilizing either angle. If you're going to stand still, you don't want to be in the path of the rear-hand particularly. But a fighter who knows HOW to face you and attack your center-line with your foot outside of theirs will eat you alive if you only know how to move one way.

 

[Redtarget]

There is not, nor has there ever been, anything wrong with utilizing either angle. If you're going to stand still, you don't want to be in the path of the rear-hand particularly. But a fighter who knows HOW to face you and attack your center-line with your foot outside of theirs will eat you alive if you only know how to move one way.

It's not about where the foot is placed, but where it's pointed. "Get your foot outside/inside his" oversimplifies the matter.

Thanks to both, that cleared things up. I'll starting working on asap!

 

[giancana]

You can be constantly moving and still get your ass kicked if you're not in good positions. Both this and the second thread demonstrate the use of both.

What is your opinion regarding this positioning? (I mean this feet positioning and distance in general, ignoring that Max tries to smother Louis)



A lot of times Joe would step in diagonally to the left (mostly with a jab and smother the opponent´s lead hand while stepping in) he would be in this position where he squares himself and his opponent up.
From there he likes to throw combinations, now isn´t this position risky? he is right in the line of fire, why does he step diagonally to the left to sqaure himself and the opponent up? and he would not smother his opponent´s offense in this positiong like a Henry Armstrong but usually throw combinations from there, or can he go away with it because he is one step ahead and as he ends his combination he will change positiong and therefore this positiong is no problem

Here another picture- Step in with jab diagonally to left for the positioning here: whereas David Tua closes distance but does not stepp diagonally to square himself and Ike up; Why does David not square himself up like Louis? /Why did Louis not closed distance and decided to end up in the positioning that David Tua uses (isnt´ this positing safer) ?

 

[Sinister]

Well, in the above photos of Louis and Tua, Tua's position is worse. Both his feet are pointed sideways and on the same line. If he gets hit with a left hook, all his weight is going to travel backwards to his heels. However, David actually did square himself up for attacks quite a bit. Joe has his feet apart, and his upper-body isn't so square. Also, his right leg is rotated, that uppercut is coming from his hip. When he turns the left leg, the torso will turn as well and the hook will follow.

Joe Louis' defense was so-so. Remember, his style wasn't built for defense. Blackburn built him for offensive efficiency, because if he hit you, you went away. Some modicum of safety as he attacks, but the attack was THE most important thing. So Joe was primarily in position to deliver force.

 

[giancana]

Joe Louis' defense was so-so. Remember, his style wasn't built for defense. Blackburn built him for offensive efficiency, because if he hit you, you went away. Some modicum of safety as he attacks, but the attack was THE most important thing. So Joe was primarily in position to deliver force.

Thank you for the clarification, I think I get it! I ignored the upper body positioning :-D and just focused on the feet positiong.


There is Mike squared up attacking James Tillis and Tillis is hitting back but in this positioning everytime Mike attacks his upper body moves during the combination , taking his head off center (tile exercise=" Some modicum of safety as he attacks") and Tillis does not hit Mike

2min19

I just focused on angles with regards to the positioning for the feet in this instance but as you said somewhere else :

"
Angles aren't only side to side, angles can also function up and down. If I slip your punch and lower my elevation, then hit you from that changed position I'm hitting you from a different angle.
"

 

[Ilk]

Just bumping this threat to thank @Sinister.
Getting awared of a good boxing stance, lead hand placement and lead food placement helped me a lot in a very short notice.

I have been reading and getting awared of positioning I felt very relaxing in spars today and while eating shots again I really did not feel them and I was way more and I mean way more confident going forward, attacking and counter attacking. Also somehow my defence started working. Not by a great degree, but people seemed hesitant to attack me, which is a good sign imo.

Funny enough I somehow started countering almost every secon-third jab thrown at me as I was now seeing my spar partners being out of position. Great awareness information here guys, it is really golden.

In the end I did not improve drastically and become a magical boxer. I am just saying the frustration in sparring suddenly dissapeared and I started doing well. Jabbing, countering, attacking confidently... all thanks to a well explained fundamentals.

 

[CapChino]

What if I still dont "get" the idea behind positioning (being in position, making sure my opponents get "out of position") what do you suggest I read or watch to get a better grip of it?

 

[Sinister]

What if I still dont "get" the idea behind positioning (being in position, making sure my opponents get "out of position") what do you suggest I read or watch to get a better grip of it?

Reading and watching won't help much considering this entire thread is full of reading and watching material. If you read this entire thread and still don't even begin to "get it" then you need a proper trainer, or to not entertain the idea of fighting