Positioning and what it means to you - Pt. 1:

[Sinister]

I like the drill. But I wonder what happens, when opponent is just blocking your vision with his lead hand. How do you know where to point your toe then ?

My feeling, is that no easy solution exists for that and you basically have to deal with that lead. Otherwise you are f...cked. Am I correct ?

Well, look at footage of people who are educated on facing the center line, when someone sticks a hand in their face, observe what they do. I generally advise they alter their positioning relative to the threat, while facing the center (or best they can). My girl has to deal with that in the above video because the opponent is encouraged to jab a lot. She has to defend herself without losing track (which is why that drill is done with punches eventually), and if she does lose track, she has to be certain she's not in a poor position in general. So the opponent doesn't have that much of an opening to capitalize on.

 

[nottingham90]

Good thread and great to see more information on the center line coming back. How (if) can you threaten their center with your hands, also?

 

[Sinister]

Point your lead hand at it.

 

[Discipulus]

Good thread and great to see more information on the center line coming back. How (if) can you threaten their center with your hands, also?

Watch all of Nacho Beristain's fighters (Juan Manuel and Rafael Marquez, Finito Lopez) and Bernard Hopkins for this. Joe Louis, too. When they raise and extend their left hands, as if pointing a knife at their opponent, that's threatening the center.

 

[Token7]

Was watching a re-show of Judah vs Garcia on hbo and the knock down looked like a result of garcia threatening his center and/or Judah over committing and loosing his footing? I'm not sure, thoughts?

http://youtu.be/YGDzp_6Xbnk
Slow motion replay around 32:30

 

[Discipulus]

Was watching a re-show of Judah vs Garcia on hbo and the knock down looked like a result of garcia threatening his center and/or Judah over committing and loosing his footing? I'm not sure, thoughts?

http://youtu.be/YGDzp_6Xbnk
Slow motion replay around 32:30

Yeah, Zab gave Garcia an angle when he overcommitted on that left. Notice how Danny is facing his center line at the moment of the knockdown, while Zab's feet are completely square to Danny. He's got nothing behind him to absorb that shot, while Danny is well positioned to deliver it.

 

[Token7]

Yeah, Zab gave Garcia an angle when he overcommitted on that left. Notice how Danny is facing his center line at the moment of the knockdown, while Zab's feet are completely square to Danny. He's got nothing behind him to absorb that shot, while Danny is well positioned to deliver it.

How is it that some fighters get their feet squared up like that? I've seen pacquiao on many cases move backwards almost as her was walking each foot back at a time making it extremely vulnerable to get knocked off balance. Any tips on how to avoid this?

 

[Discipulus]

How is it that some fighters get their feet squared up like that? I've seen pacquiao on many cases move backwards almost as her was walking each foot back at a time making it extremely vulnerable to get knocked off balance. Any tips on how to avoid this?

Step properly, learn to hop-step... It's just a bad habit that lots of fighters get away with--until they don't, that is. Bernard Hopkins is one of the few modern fighters I can think of who almost never gets his feet out of position unless he deliberately means to.

 

[PivotPunch]

Step properly, learn to hop-step... It's just a bad habit that lots of fighters get away with--until they don't, that is. Bernard Hopkins is one of the few modern fighters I can think of who almost never gets his feet out of position unless he deliberately means to.

What's hop stepping?
And are there really so many fighters who don't step properly I thought that would be one of the first things fighters learn?
Tbh I'm usually not concentrating on the feet all that much when watching a fight tbh if a fighter takes an angle I see it watching their upper bodies and I guess I'm to lazy to pay a lot of attention to the feet when watching a fight. I do sometimes when I'm interested in something but most of the time not

What i also find interesting that Hopkins doesn't watch his opponent's feet when fighting but looks at the chest or eyes (from what i remember from an interview) and Donaire who doesn't have great footwork himself looks at his opponents feet to counter them

 

[Sinister]

Hop-step:



And I've almost never come across a fighter who was trained by someone else (whom I don't know), whose footwork I LIKE. It's very rare. Right now I'm working with an MMA fighter who was trained by a Russian, his pivots are fairly clean, but he didn't know how to turn a corner, say against the ropes, without compromising positioning.

 

[Steve08]

The kid in that video brings his rear foot almost directly underneath him when he throws a left hand - why is that? Seems like a compromised position, in the event that said rear straight was countered. Just curious.

 

[PivotPunch]

Hop-step:



And I've almost never come across a fighter who was trained by someone else (whom I don't know), whose footwork I LIKE. It's very rare. Right now I'm working with an MMA fighter who was trained by a Russian, his pivots are fairly clean, but he didn't know how to turn a corner, say against the ropes, without compromising positioning.

I can't really see it but does the rear foot start the movement meaning actually the "wrong" way?
I can't really see it if it is what's the advantage as opposed to let's say a normal step or if you need to cover more distance quickly leaping in?
I see how it's faster than a normal step but is it really that much faster that it's useful unless you wanna back up really quickly like Wladimir Klitschko for example does?
Maybe I'm also wrong because I don't really see the exact movement it's a bit too fast so amybe you actually do push off with the rear foot and it's just a leap

 

[Sinister]

The kid in that video brings his rear foot almost directly underneath him when he throws a left hand - why is that? Seems like a compromised position, in the event that said rear straight was countered. Just curious.

He rotates the rear hip. It's a balanced position. Keep in-mind that in demonstrations, everything is a bit exaggerated, here's how he looks in fights:



Not perfect, but then again no one is. Still beat the piss out of that other kid, though.

I can't really see it but does the rear foot start the movement meaning actually the "wrong" way?
I can't really see it if it is what's the advantage as opposed to let's say a normal step or if you need to cover more distance quickly leaping in?
I see how it's faster than a normal step but is it really that much faster that it's useful unless you wanna back up really quickly like Wladimir Klitschko for example does?
Maybe I'm also wrong because I don't really see the exact movement it's a bit too fast so amybe you actually do push off with the rear foot and it's just a leap

Neither foot really starts to movement, it's a skip, just a very minimized one. And yes, it's a smooth way of covering distance more quickly instead of just walking fast.

I took that exercise of Dadi's and turned it into a partner drill:

 

[PivotPunch]

He rotates the rear hip. It's a balanced position. Keep in-mind that in demonstrations, everything is a bit exaggerated, here's how he looks in fights:



Not perfect, but then again no one is. Still beat the piss out of that other kid, though.



Neither foot really starts to movement, it's a skip, just a very minimized one. And yes, it's a smooth way of covering distance more quickly instead of just walking fast.

I took that exercise of Dadi's and turned it into a partner drill:

I don't get it. Neither foot pushes/pulls? So you are literally hoping with both feet simultenously in a direction? Isn't that super dangerous if you get caught doing so?

 

[Sinister]

It's difficult to describe, but say you want to hop-step forward. Most people when I first show it to them, they jump. They lift the front foot and push off the back foot, then catch the back foot up, which is a leap. This is not a leap, it's a skip. So yes, both move at the same time. It's only dangerous if you can't do anything off of it, but as the initial video showed, it can be used to facilitate punching positions.

Every movement is dangerous in some way, though. In the Tibetan philosophical sense.

 

[a guy]

I'm also a big fan of hop steps. They're a very natural movement, and very versatile.

 

[Discipulus]

The thing about the hop-step is it transfers weight from one foot to the other. Moving forward, for example, you shift from left to right, pulling back as you move forward. That's why, as Lu says, it facilitates punching. If you've ever seen someone throw a leaping hook, this is the way it's done.

Watch Frazier's feet:

Joe's movement is exaggerated, and not as smooth as it could be, but that was the fifteenth round and things get messy in a fight. The point is that his weight starts on the left foot, and ends on the right foot, despite the fact that he's moving forward the whole time.

 

[WillW]

Yes Frazier was good with his hooks. He would also often swing them as well. Up there with guys like SRR and RJJ


To me the centerline is a safety net. always needs to be thought of. Then you can play around and break it to find your angles. Like moving left for the right hand, or baiting the opponents right hand, which you counter hard.

Also I prefer the drop step to the hop step as standard footwork.

 

[ssullivan80]

It doesn't make you look closer than you would be if you had your weight forward. But it makes you look like you haven't moved as far as you did, in large part because you're moving back and to the side. On top of that, when your hip is folded your upper body appears to be leaning forward slightly. And it kind of is, but since the action originates at the hip your head isn't actually moving forward, but the angle of your upper body makes it look like it is.

It's easiest to explain in front of someone. They'll try to reach you, miss and have to lean in then be really confused when you can easily touch them.

Here's a visual reference. Jacobs was obviously frustrated and about stopped throwing his jab because he couldn't find it. Pirog is also an excellent example of what Sin mentioned earlier "hiding inside".

 

[Discipulus]

Yes Frazier was good with his hooks. He would also often swing them as well. Up there with guys like SRR and RJJ

To me the centerline is a safety net. always needs to be thought of. Then you can play around and break it to find your angles. Like moving left for the right hand, or baiting the opponents right hand, which you counter hard.

Yes, I more or less agree with this. It takes me a long time to warm up to the point where I can confidently step off the center line, too, but once I find my rhythm that's precisely what I start doing. You can land all of your punches from your starting position, but it's often better to move around to create the most efficient angles for them. Provided you're aware of the risks, of course.

Also I prefer the drop step to the hop step as standard footwork.

How can you prefer one to the other? A drop step is completely different from a hop step. That's a bit like saying you prefer the jab to the shoulder roll.