PotWR- Pence Accuses China of "Malign" Campaign to Undermine Trump

[HomerThompson]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Mike Pence intensified Washington’s pressure campaign against Beijing on Thursday by accusing China of “malign” efforts to undermine President Donald Trump ahead of next month’s congressional elections and reckless military actions in the South China Sea.


In what was billed as a major policy address, Pence sought to build on Trump’s speech at the United Nations last week in which he accused China of trying to interfere in the vote that will determine whether his Republican Party will keep control of Congress.

Neither Trump nor Pence provided hard evidence of meddling by China, which last week rejected the president’s allegation.

Pence’s speech at Washington’s Hudson Institute marked a sharpened U.S. approach toward China going beyond the bitter trade war between the world’s two biggest economies. It highlighted disputes such as cyber attacks, Taiwan, freedom of the seas and human rights.

Pence said China was waging a sophisticated effort to sway the elections against the Republicans in retaliation for Trump’s trade policies. He vowed to continue to expose Beijing’s “malign influence and interference.”


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ampaign-to-undermine-trump-idUSKCN1ME209?il=0


Of course, this is designed to deflect from the Russian interference in 2016 that is currently being investigated. It doesn't help the trade war in any way, and seems designed to cushion Republican losses in November, and of course to help dismiss the Russian hacking that has been verified.

Also from the article:

Even so, Pence said: “As a senior career member of our intelligence community recently told me, what the Russians are doing pales in comparison to what China is doing across this country.”

 

[M3t4tr0n]

How do we know it was China and not some 400 pound fat guy sitting in his bed?

 

[PEB]

China incredibly sneaky they created a toilet paper that will only stick on President Trump shoes.

 

[DIDM]

How do we know it was China and not some 400 pound fat guy sitting in his bed?

What’s it like talking to yourself?

 

[InternetHero]

All the election Trump stuff is likely nonsense.

However, China is a clear and present danger to any President and any Administration, and by default should be a concern of all Americans regardless of how much they hate or love the LOD, Large Orange Daddy.

 

[InternetHero]

For example:

- Has China recently come close to ramming a U.S. destroyer conducting a freedom of navigation mission next to their proactive sea base?

Yes.

- Has China gone out of it's way to undermine Taiwan in recent months by turning it's few allies against it and forcing companies to rebrand Taiwan as "China?"

Yes.

- Has China likely done a tremendous amount of hacking in recent months?

Yes. China always does, and the CIA has tracked most of the largest hack-jobs back to Chinese intelligent and institutions a myriad of times.

I don't think Pence should mention this in the context of partisans and the LOD (Large Orange Daddy,) as this should be something that unifies Americans.

The CCP is a larger and truer enemy to democracy than Republicans, or Democrats, or the LOD or Billaray Clanton.

 

[Seaside]

China should legitimately be seen way more as a threat to US. I dont know what the neocons and military conplex was thinking how they let china get so powerful let alone had their countrys bankers and others help it. China is a giant ethnostate embracing evolutionary trends and transhuman stuff and working on dominating the future via humam gene engineering, cloning, AI, cyberwarfare, and supercomputers. The full weight of their goverbment and population supports this. There is no doubt they will surpass the west and the west will wekane until some areas collapse and then in the struggle some right wing forces win out (since the left never does) and you get the rebuilding of western nations. The question then is will they be like former empires and never come to the power they once had or will they be hijacked and ruled by a larger power. Not to mention chinas proxy states and soon to be proxy states run by vhinese money and ethno chinese. This also is aided with alliances with the former soviet sphere and balance with India and Iran etc.

If US was smart they would try to use former soviet sphere and russia and India as ways to contain china.

 

[ShinkanPo]

For example:

- Has China recently come close to ramming a U.S. destroyer conducting a freedom of navigation mission next to their proactive sea base?

Yes.

- Has China gone out of it's way to undermine Taiwan in recent months by turning it's few allies against it and forcing companies to rebrand Taiwan as "China?"

Yes.

- Has China likely done a tremendous amount of hacking in recent months?

Yes. China always does, and the CIA has tracked most of the largest hack-jobs back to Chinese intelligent and institutions a myriad of times.

I don't think Pence should mention this in the context of partisans and the LOD (Large Orange Daddy,) as this should be something that unifies Americans.

The CCP is a larger and truer enemy to democracy than Republicans, or Democrats, or the LOD or Billaray Clanton.

The Chinese I mean the CPC is a threat to liberty not only to America but to other soft democracies as well.

They encourage totalitarianism in smaller countries.

Mike Pence is right with this issue but other people just want to burry their heads in the sand and call names in forums,social media etc.

 

[HomerThompson]

Mike Pence is right with this issue

How so?

China being a threat to Democracy/the U.S. isn't the same thing as them specifically targeting Trump, and the elections.

 

[ShinkanPo]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Mike Pence intensified Washington’s pressure campaign against Beijing on Thursday by accusing China of “malign” efforts to undermine President Donald Trump ahead of next month’s congressional elections and reckless military actions in the South China Sea.


In what was billed as a major policy address, Pence sought to build on Trump’s speech at the United Nations last week in which he accused China of trying to interfere in the vote that will determine whether his Republican Party will keep control of Congress.

Neither Trump nor Pence provided hard evidence of meddling by China, which last week rejected the president’s allegation.

Pence’s speech at Washington’s Hudson Institute marked a sharpened U.S. approach toward China going beyond the bitter trade war between the world’s two biggest economies. It highlighted disputes such as cyber attacks, Taiwan, freedom of the seas and human rights.

Pence said China was waging a sophisticated effort to sway the elections against the Republicans in retaliation for Trump’s trade policies. He vowed to continue to expose Beijing’s “malign influence and interference.”


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ampaign-to-undermine-trump-idUSKCN1ME209?il=0


Of course, this is designed to deflect from the Russian interference in 2016 that is currently being investigated. It doesn't help the trade war in any way, and seems designed to cushion Republican losses in November, and of course to help dismiss the Russian hacking that has been verified.

Also from the article:

Even so, Pence said: “As a senior career member of our intelligence community recently told me, what the Russians are doing pales in comparison to what China is doing across this country.”

Pence motivation for speaking out maybe to deflect the attention away from the Russian investigation but it does not mean the Chinese threat is not real or not greater than the Russian meddling.

The funny thing is if Trumps gets impeach guess who will replace him?

 

[Trotsky]

All the election Trump stuff is likely nonsense.

However, China is a clear and present danger to any President and any Administration, and by default should be a concern of all Americans regardless of how much they hate or love the LOD, Large Orange Daddy.

The Republican Party, and Trump specifically, are a far, far, far, far, far greater threat to the United States' long-term interests and prolonged status as the world's political and economic epicenter than is China. Hell, just look at all the power and influence this administration has already ceded to China on the global stage. Besides lapping up international prestige and diverting attention from their (many) problems, the CCP also realized that negotiating with Trump was fairly rudimentary: just give the putz the VIP treatment and shower him with praise and personal dealings, and he'll spread his legs.

Such remarks support the view of Shen Dingli, a professor of international relations at Fudan University. Trump, he told me, is “an especially easy president for China to handle.”

“We are lucky,” he added.

Beijing seems to have concluded that the former casino mogul, like a high-rolling gambler, can be made to keep playing the house by showering him with VIP perks.

On the diplomatic front, China’s tactic of acting as a foil to Trump has already paid off handsomely. From Europe to Africa to Latin America, China is enjoying more prestige and respect than it has in years. While Barack Obama vexed Beijing with his idealism, “pivot to Asia,” and China-excluding Trans-Pacific Partnership—a massive trade pact that would have fused the major economies of Asia with the United States—Trump has emphatically reversed course, tearing up the TPP and driving allies to consider China-backed plans instead.

This divergence was nowhere clearer than at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit held in Da Nang, Vietnam, after Trump’s visit in November. There, Xi Jinping outlined a vision of China at the center of the region’s diplomatic, development, and trade architecture, reiterating his country’s support for multilateral free-trade schemes. Trump, meanwhile, struck a pugnacious tone, saying that America had gotten stuck with the bad end of trade deals during previous administrations and warning that “those days are over.”

Trump’s posture stands in marked contrast to China’s plans for engagement of various kinds with countries throughout Asia. The centerpiece of China’s efforts is the Belt and Road Initiative (also known as the New Silk Road), an ambitious strategy to fund infrastructure projects across Eurasia that would increase foreign trade with China’s inland provinces and bolster its geopolitical clout. Often likened to the Marshall Plan, the Belt and Road Initiative brought 29 heads of state to Beijing for a summit last May, where Xi declared it “the project of the century.” Among the attendees was a delegation sent by Trump, a gesture seen as offering a tacit endorsement of Xi’s vision.

Trump’s decision to pull out of the Paris climate agreement further burnished China’s new image as the responsible global power. Chancellor Angela Merkel declared that Germany could no longer rely on its long-standing ally, and when China reiterated its pledge to limit greenhouse-gas emissions, she said, “China has become a more important and strategic partner.” (It’s worth noting that China’s promised carbon-emission target under the Paris Agreement won’t kick in until 2030, and that Beijing has a long history of finding ways to circumvent international promises.)

In all these ways, China has positioned itself to be seen as stepping into America’s vacuum. Shen Dingli emphasized this point to me, saying that Trump’s hostility to multilateral institutions such as the WTO and nato has given China “a huge opportunity.”

With Trump in the White House, Xu Guoqi, a professor at the University of Hong Kong, told me, the Chinese are enjoying a “golden field for their propaganda.” At the same time, Trump’s election, and the wave of political disorder it has unleashed within and beyond the United States, has provided ample fodder for China to attack democracy and extol the one-party state. “American power is based on two legs, the hard power and soft power,” Xu explained. “In terms of soft power, Trump really undermined it substantially.” Trump’s election gave the People’s Daily, the Communist Party mouthpiece, the occasion to run a series of commentaries arguing that the “crisis in capitalist societies” was “proof of the truth of Marxism and the superiority of the socialist system.”

Such messages continued to gain force during Trump’s first year in office, boosting not only Beijing’s standing internationally, but the Communist Party’s claim to legitimacy among the Chinese population. Xu describes Trump’s presidency as “a gift for the current regime in China. Because of Trump, Xi Jinping’s Chinese dream”—the resurgence of China’s dominance in world affairs—“could be achievable now.”

The CCP really couldn't ask for a better president. Besides the disastrous international policy ceding influence and prestige to China, the GOP's domestic policies are weakening the contrast between the US and China, as our policy and rhetoric is rushing to meet theirs in flawed areas of worker protections, union rights, environmental controls, and hostility to free press, and economic inequality.

 

[M3t4tr0n]

What’s it like talking to yourself?

I don't talk to myself, I talk to the voices.

 

[InternetHero]

The Republican Party, and Trump specifically, are a far, far, far, far, far greater threat to the United States' long-term interests and prolonged status as the world's political and economic epicenter than is China. Hell, just look at all the power and influence this administration has already ceded to China on the global stage. Besides lapping up international prestige and diverting attention from their (many) problems, the CCP also realized that negotiating with Trump was fairly rudimentary: just give the putz the VIP treatment and shower him with praise and personal dealings, and he'll spread his legs.



The CCP really couldn't ask for a better president. Besides the disastrous international policy ceding influence and prestige to China, the GOP's domestic policies are weakening the contrast between the US and China, as our policy and rhetoric is rushing to meet theirs in flawed areas of worker protections, union rights, environmental controls, and hostility to free press, and economic inequality.

I think our politics and understanding of the situation are too divergent to agree.

If you want to debate the issue in a separate thread, I can make a strong case that the Chinese government is the greatest threat to liberalism the world has seen since Nazi Germany, arguably as much as the heyday of Leninism/Stalinism as well.

In philosophy, culture, economics, influence first regional and then international, and even in quarters as lowly as politics.

The Dragon has too many heads to count subtly chewing into freedom, human rights, and the ability of anyone to make to resist the growing menace.

Meanwhile we have a pseudo-plutocrat obsessed with his own debased image, who governs in a very traditional way in accordance with the right, to which America has traditionally leaned. He does damage our culture, but the damage is from a fissure that existed along the fault lines of globalism, liberalism, and what 'we the people' stand for that will long out the sad legacy of The Don.

President Xi has a longer look at the world, and a deeper, much darker vision with the power of money, pride, and power to see to it America slips from the memory of billions of people, and that Appeal to Authority is the new rule promoted around the world.

 

[Trotsky]

I think our politics and understanding of the situation are too divergent to agree.

If you want to debate the issue in a separate thread, I can make a strong case that the Chinese government is the greatest threat to liberalism the world has seen since Nazi Germany, arguably as much as the heyday of Leninism/Stalinism as well.

In philosophy, culture, economics, influence first regional and then international, and even in quarters as lowly as politics.

The Dragon has too many heads to count subtly chewing into freedom, human rights, and the ability of anyone to make to resist the growing menace.

Meanwhile we have a pseudo-plutocrat obsessed with his own debased image, who governs in a very traditional way in accordance with the right, to which America has traditionally leaned. He does damage our culture, but the damage is from a fissure that existed along the fault lines of globalism, liberalism, and what 'we the people' stand for that will long out the sad legacy of The Don.

President Xi has a longer look at the world, and a deeper, much darker vision with the power of money, pride, and power to see to it America slips from the memory of billions of people, and that Appeal to Authority is the new rule promoted around the world.

So, do you agree that the GOP/Trump's reductions to US influence internationally and simultaneous reductions to the virtues of liberalism domestically are the absolute worst response to China's rise? How do you defend their policies as doing anything other than both helping China and hurting the United States and its citizens?

Given existing US prosperity, hegemony, and influence over the developed world, it would seem to me that a continuation of mid-century US domestic policy would be most effective, if not singularly sufficient, toward boxing out China's rising influence.

 

[InternetHero]

So, do you agree that the GOP/Trump's reductions to US influence internationally and simultaneous reductions to the virtues of liberalism domestically are the absolute worst response to China's rise? How do you defend their policies as doing anything other than both helping China and hurting the United States and its citizens? (1)

Given existing US prosperity, hegemony, and influence over the developed world, it would seem to me that a continuation of mid-century US domestic policy would be most effective, if not singularly sufficient, toward boxing out China's rising influence. (2)

1. I disagree, because as long as the power and prestige are there, rulers come and go.

It was the exact same argument with GW Bush, and without much to show for it.

As well, part of the Confucian playbook is to back down quickly when publicly accosted. As long as we confront them strongly, they will yell strongly, and then secretly sue for peace. That's fine, and if we are powerful in will, we win the settlement almost every time. In this day and age though that is hard, considering American unity is lacking, and China knows this all too well. (Oh, I will add that part of Trump's problem is he is half-assed and unprepared, and doesn't listen to the wise men in the room. We would be better off applying different types of economic pressure to sink the state-owned companies in CHina or put them in peril and specifically attack the Party's interests at every level we can. On top of that, we should have a more permanent military presence near the "islands" until they back off or reach a compromise. But this is a President of love letters, so half-assed is at least much better than no ass at all. Hmm, I'll stick with that anal-ogy.

2. Containment worked all right, before American trade and economic policy gifted China one of the greatest economic developmental periods in history.

Now, as Capitalists, we did indeed buy our own rope for the hanging to come, are we going to ignore 1.3 billion consumers in the long run because, say it is right to keep Taiwan free? If we play by the old rules in a situation that has changed, we will keep losing ground, and have been for a long time.

 

[ShinkanPo]

1. I disagree, because as long as the power and prestige are there, rulers come and go.

It was the exact same argument with GW Bush, and without much to show for it.

As well, part of the Confucian playbook is to back down quickly when publicly accosted. As long as we confront them strongly, they will yell strongly, and then secretly sue for peace. That's fine, and if we are powerful in will, we win the settlement almost every time. In this day and age though that is hard, considering American unity is lacking, and China knows this all too well. (Oh, I will add that part of Trump's problem is he is half-assed and unprepared, and doesn't listen to the wise men in the room. We would be better off applying different types of economic pressure to sink the state-owned companies in CHina or put them in peril and specifically attack the Party's interests at every level we can. On top of that, we should have a more permanent military presence near the "islands" until they back off or reach a compromise. But this is a President of love letters, so half-assed is at least much better than no ass at all. Hmm, I'll stick with that anal-ogy.

2. Containment worked all right, before American trade and economic policy gifted China one of the greatest economic developmental periods in history.

Now, as Capitalists, we did indeed buy our own rope for the hanging to come, are we going to ignore 1.3 billion consumers in the long run because, say it is right to keep Taiwan free? If we play by the old rules in a situation that has changed, we will keep losing ground, and have been for a long time.

@Trotsky and @InternetHero

Do you guy thinks the USA should not have pulled out of the TPP?

Will the USA really have an advantage in trade with the TPP most Americans that I know of they maybe Democrat or Republican said the TPP does nothing and may actually hurt the USA. But I have heared arguments for it by other political analyst I am just not really well versed with the scope of that trade deal.

 

[Trotsky]

@Trotsky and @InternetHero

Do you guy thinks the USA should not have pulled out of the TPP?

Will the USA really have an advantage in trade with the TPP most Americans that I know of they maybe Democrat or Republican said the TPP does nothing and may actually hurt the USA. But I have heared arguments for it by other political analyst I am just not really well versed with the scope of that trade deal.

For the purposes of shoring up US economic influence and staving off China's? No, the US should not have ripped up TPP.

But those weren't my primary considerations in my position on the deal. I opposed it on the basis that it didn't sufficiently protect labor and shifted too much legal power to private entities.

 

[ShinkanPo]

For the purposes of shoring up US economic influence and staving off China's? No, the US should not have ripped up TPP.

But those weren't my primary considerations in my position on the deal. I opposed it on the basis that it didn't sufficiently protect labor and shifted too much legal power to private entities.

I am of the opinion that the TPP would indeed secure USs influence in the region amidst China's rising influence as from what I understand the deal will allow other countries to have the option to loan dollars to the USA instead of China? Or that member countries will be obliged to trade with the US along with China?

Can you give a brief explanation on how the USA can use the TPP to maintain or make its influence stronger.

Sorry if I have to ask you this but I have read some articles about it on the Web but there are things that are not really clear to me since economics is not my strong point when trying to understand complex issues like this.

Lol hopefully my dumb brain can digest that.

Some easy to read links for the laymen would also be cool.

 

[bobgeese]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Mike Pence intensified Washington’s pressure campaign against Beijing on Thursday by accusing China of “malign” efforts to undermine President Donald Trump ahead of next month’s congressional elections and reckless military actions in the South China Sea.


In what was billed as a major policy address, Pence sought to build on Trump’s speech at the United Nations last week in which he accused China of trying to interfere in the vote that will determine whether his Republican Party will keep control of Congress.

Neither Trump nor Pence provided hard evidence of meddling by China, which last week rejected the president’s allegation.

Pence’s speech at Washington’s Hudson Institute marked a sharpened U.S. approach toward China going beyond the bitter trade war between the world’s two biggest economies. It highlighted disputes such as cyber attacks, Taiwan, freedom of the seas and human rights.

Pence said China was waging a sophisticated effort to sway the elections against the Republicans in retaliation for Trump’s trade policies. He vowed to continue to expose Beijing’s “malign influence and interference.”


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ampaign-to-undermine-trump-idUSKCN1ME209?il=0


Of course, this is designed to deflect from the Russian interference in 2016 that is currently being investigated. It doesn't help the trade war in any way, and seems designed to cushion Republican losses in November, and of course to help dismiss the Russian hacking that has been verified.

Also from the article:

Even so, Pence said: “As a senior career member of our intelligence community recently told me, what the Russians are doing pales in comparison to what China is doing across this country.”

Wow, such a balanced an un-opinionated OP Homer.





It couldn’t be that China, along with Russia and every other major country are continuing their daily espionage/cyber warfare/propaganda campaigns that they’ve been conducting for as long as they’ve possessed the ability?



Try being a rational thinker Homer.

 

[Rational Poster]

How so?

China being a threat to Democracy/the U.S. isn't the same thing as them specifically targeting Trump, and the elections.

If China is a general existential threat then that includes Donald Trump making everything true.