Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria(Kurds Reach Afrin Deal with Syrian Government Forces)

Would not a Kurdish state would be largely free of factional instability, in a critical area, and pro US?

What am I missing here?

#justaskingquestions
I'm not too well read on Kurdish politics but from what I know, not necessarily/. Kurdish politics, like the rest of the region, are dominated by clans with the Barzani clan being a good example.. Also, each country where the Kurds reside in have their own unique politics and could compete for influence if a Kurdish state were created out of territories from two or more countries. That said, it doesn't mean the factionalism would be quite as crippling as it is in other Middle Eastern countries.
 
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Would not a Kurdish state would be largely free of factional instability, in a critical area, and pro US?

What am I missing here?

#justaskingquestions

We all know Erdogan is an annoying bitch, but Turkey is a vital strategic partner, it holds nuclear missiles, has Incirlik AFB....etc.

If you stop kissing their ass, bye bye alliance.
 
I'm not too well read on Kurdish politics but from what I know, not necessarily/. Kurdish politics, like the rest of the region, are dominated by clans with the Barzani clan being a good example.. Also, each country where the Kurds reside in have their own unique politics and could compete for influence if a Kurdish state wee created out of territories from two or more countries. That said, it doesn't mean the factionalism would be quite as crippling as it is in other Middle Eastern countries.

Yeah that is a good point. A stable united Kurdistan can't be assumed although its still think it is a decent geopolitical bet to make.
 
We all know Erdogan is an annoying bitch, but Turkey is a vital strategic partner, it holds nuclear missiles, has Incirlik AFB....etc.

If you stop kissing their ass, bye bye alliance.

Kurdistan would be a better ally and we should not have nukes there anyway
 
I'm not too well read on Kurdish politics but from what I know, not necessarily/. Kurdish politics, like the rest of the region, are dominated by clans with the Barzani clan being a good example.. Also, each country where the Kurds reside in have their own unique politics and could compete for influence if a Kurdish state wee created out of territories from two or more countries. That said, it doesn't mean the factionalism would be quite as crippling as it is in other Middle Eastern countries.

Agreed. Kurds are far from a monolithic entity. I mean there were two civil wars in Iraqi kurdistan running up to the US invasion. The relation between the Barzanis and the Talabanis are still very strained as we saw in the recent Kirkuk debacle. This is just taking into account internal Iraqi Kurdistan politics. The relation between socialist KCK-affiliates (PYD,PKK) and more nationalist groups are even more complicated. Iraqi Kurdistan is currently running an economic blockade against Syrian Kurdistan and Barzani is an ally of Erdogan while kurdish cities are leveled in Southeastern Turkey. It's a mess.

Outside of this you still have large groups of other minorities in the areas, especially Assyrians, whose voices are lost when talking about a Kurdistan project. Kurdish participation in the Assyrian genocide is not forgotten.
 
the reestablishment of the Ottoman Empire
it's actually a real thing. just take a look at the balkans and many parts of europe...it's maybe not around the corner, but it's expanding fast. take a look at serbia, kosovo, macedonia, bosnia...this is actually where turkey and the us have common goals, by supporting the muslim population there and creating tensions in those regions.
 
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Is it really his "base" so to speak, or to intimidate detractors within the country? My time in Iraq taught me that almost none of the nonsense that Saddam pulled was actually directed at the US/the West, it was all designed to give himself the impression of being a Strongman on the world stage, thus intimidate people within the country that may oppose him.

It's interesting because Erdogan was initially seen as very Kurd friendly, open to easing restrictions on Kurdish language and customs, positive to the peace process and his conservative and islamist-leaning policies appealed to a large part of the Kurdish voting bloc. All this has went downhill since then of course.

I don't really think people understand the deep deep hatred Turks have for anything PKK affiliated. To see the US working with a group that has ties to an organisation involved in a conflict with Turkey spanning decades causing tens of thousands of deaths is going to cause a reaction. No matter the intent of the US, this is simply unacceptable. Add to this, as you say, the need to be viewed as strong and for Turkey to be a great regional power and you have a "Saddam-like" figure in Erdogan whose statements looks just as crazy from the outside.
 
a) I have no idea. We're talking about creating a force of 30,000 troops on their border, including the Kurdish YPG. It seems like a big deal.
b) I think we could have a base there, and am still baffled that we haven't pushed for an independent Kurdistan for strategic reasons. I suppose we've had Turkey in our pocket for so long, it never seemed worth the effort. Obviously I know we'd never engage in action to help them for moral reasons.
c) So we can more easily nuke Russia and China. Although, I feel with our current fleet of nuclear subs, the nukes in Turkey are redundant. Again, not endorsing militarism, I'm speaking purely strategically.
A) Probably not. Turkey still needs to appease the rest of Europe, and talking tough is one thing. But actually kicking the US/UK out of Turkey is a bold move that would make them look really bad to our allies and us. However, they denied us use of an air field prior to Iraq, so maybe they are getting a little bolder? We will see on how much of this is rhetoric and how much is substance. Right now, it's probably too early to tell for sure.
B) An independent Kurdistan would be awesome for the Kurds. It pisses off Turkey, Iraq (the part that wouldn't be chopped off and given to the Kurds), and the Iranians. For whatever reason, those three countries all view the Kurds as basically subhuman. The big part of it would be the movement of oil. An independent Kurdistan would almost certainly be land-locked, and given that they would be surrounded by hostile nations, Kurdish oil would need to flow through someone. But who? None are good options, and the situation may devolve quickly in conflict. Stability in that region is really hard to come by, as pretty much we all know at this point.
C) It's more than just nukes, although nukes are a piece of it. It's about projecting forces across the range of military options. Air fields, access to ports, and yes, platforms to launch a whole range of missiles. We actually did that to great success in 1998 with the Brits when Saddam wouldn't allow UN inspectors to examine their weapons facilities as part of a disarmament deal. On that mission, planes flew from Kuwait and Oman, not Turkey however. The idea is the same though.
 
Sometimes it's just about doing what is right, the Kurds deserve a state .

when we created Iraq this shit show was always a probability, it was likely just a matter of when , as soon as we removed Sadam this was inevitable .

The Kurds should have had a State since 1920
 
Geopolitics. None of our business, but all of our business.

What exactly is the question or topic here? Or is this just a news feed?
 
Geopolitics. None of our business, but all of our business.

What exactly is the question or topic here? Or is this just a news feed?
I'm looking for opinions on what people think about the latest developments. Maybe you should read the attached articles. :)
 
Apparently this topic isn't outrage porny enough to get traction .

I for one have been In favor of a Kurdish state for a very long time.
 
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SUGEDIGI, Turkey (Reuters) - Turkish artillery fired into Syria’s Afrin region on Friday in what Ankara said was the start of a military campaign against the Kurdish-controlled area.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nister-says-operation-has-begun-idUSKBN1F80XX
It's going to get real interesting when turkey sends in its ground troops.

Shits going to get messy quick. You have sdf, Kurds, Russians and Americans all strung about in that area.

Allot of side way situations in this one.
 
(CNN)Turkey intensified its shelling of Kurdish fighters in neighboring Syria on Friday as it ramped up threats to launch a full military offensive across the border, a move that would stoke tensions with the United States.
 
Homer maybe you should change the thread title to Trump banged some skank ....maybe get some eyeballs on this
 
http://syria.liveuamap.com/
^good map to follow some developments on the issue. (Afrin is in the upper left corner of Syria)
It's not 100% accurate as a lot of fanboys on all sides like to drop some propaganda on it but it usually gets deleted quickly
 
turkish soldiers casualties are reported too
 
Reporting that I’m lurking here for updates, just to give some support to this thread. Also, being stickied hurts. I always scroll past them
 
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