preserving muscle while losing weight

andrewm2211

Orange Belt
@Orange
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
415
Reaction score
0
Hi all,

I'm considering competing in early Dec. In the meantime I'm hoping to go down a weight class, and I'm going to need to lose about 2 pounds a week. A co worker who was in to body building for a while warned me that the body will break down muscle before fat if you aren't stocked up on protein.

I have done some research on my own, but honestly everything I read is like six page essay.

So I'm looking for some broad stroke advice. I.E should I just drink a protein shake daily?

My approach is reducing calories by cutting carbs. I'm not counting but I am more or less hungry most of the time and I last weak I hit my goal of losing two pounds.

The sort of stuff i'm eating right now is.

-Avocado and tempeh for breakfast
-hummus ,falafel, salad, cheese for lunch
-and dinner is gennerally some sort of lentil / bean with vegetables situation.

Thanks.
 
No matter what count calories. It makes it easier to adjust your diet when you plateau in your weight loss.
Also to not lose too much muscle mass you need to lose weight slowly. 2 pounds a week is not only fat.
Your friend is correct that protein is most important when cutting, and you should get as much as you can.
So to make it simple, find your maintenance calories, by searching "TDEE calculator" online.
Eat 500 calories below maintenance and get as much protein as possible, depending on your current weight.
When weight loss stops, reduce the calorie deficit by another 200 and so on until you hit desired weight. Have a refeed day once a week or once every second week just for your own sanity.
Be wary of cutting out carbs since you will enter keto, and this will make you sick for a week or so. I agree to cut the simple carbs out, but if youre working out you should have some carbs before training at least.
 
GSP recently talked about intermittent fasting and how well it got rid of his body fat. Google “GSP Intermittent Fasting JRE”.

There are lots of different IF plans out there. I think (not positive, I didn’t listen to the whole thing) that he used the Lean Gains technique. First step is only eating between noon-8pm. Easy. 2nd step is what to eat on workout days vs non workout days. Not as easy. Google “LeanGains”.

I’m not saying it works. I’m just saying GSP says it works. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
Hi all,

I'm considering competing in early Dec. In the meantime I'm hoping to go down a weight class, and I'm going to need to lose about 2 pounds a week. A co worker who was in to body building for a while warned me that the body will break down muscle before fat if you aren't stocked up on protein.

I have done some research on my own, but honestly everything I read is like six page essay.

So I'm looking for some broad stroke advice. I.E should I just drink a protein shake daily?

My approach is reducing calories by cutting carbs. I'm not counting but I am more or less hungry most of the time and I last weak I hit my goal of losing two pounds.

The sort of stuff i'm eating right now is.

-Avocado and tempeh for breakfast
-hummus ,falafel, salad, cheese for lunch
-and dinner is gennerally some sort of lentil / bean with vegetables situation.

Thanks.

You'll need carbs for high intensity activity.

Try very light jogging or cycling in the morning for a hour and a half to two hours straight. This will burn fat. I've been doing this, and I'm losing weight, and looking far more ripped, and maintaining a good amount of strength in relation to my weight. See what it does for you. Went from hovering close to 180 to about 167.

However, you need carbs for high intensity training like grappling.
 
You want to lose fat but not muscle? No shit.

It’s not possible u less your roiding.
 
I definitely think it’s possible to be less fat and more muscular without steroids
 
It is possible. I read a study recently. But you need to have enough protein and lift weights to keep the muscle mass you have. I don’t remember if it was a hypertrophy routine or strength regimen or for competing you need to focus on strength not muscle mass.
 
It is possible. I read a study recently. But you need to have enough protein and lift weights to keep the muscle mass you have. I don’t remember if it was a hypertrophy routine or strength regimen or for competing you need to focus on strength not muscle mass.

Good point I guess I just assumed if I was losing muscle I was getting weaker.

I took TroldeAnsigt's advice and started counting calories. Calculator said I need about 3k to maintain, and I've been eating around 1,700 a day. I am getting some carbs from fruit/beans etc. but I cut out everything "bready".

I haven't been lifting weights but on days I don't train I've been doing elevated pushups and riding my bike to work to maintain strength(I hope that is working anyways). I do have a kettle bell however, should probably dust it off.

Lasty I'm still on the fence about competing. I can train 3x a week max. Is it just plain not enough mat time?
 
Good point I guess I just assumed if I was losing muscle I was getting weaker.

I took TroldeAnsigt's advice and started counting calories. Calculator said I need about 3k to maintain, and I've been eating around 1,700 a day. I am getting some carbs from fruit/beans etc. but I cut out everything "bready".

I haven't been lifting weights but on days I don't train I've been doing elevated pushups and riding my bike to work to maintain strength(I hope that is working anyways). I do have a kettle bell however, should probably dust it off.

Lasty I'm still on the fence about competing. I can train 3x a week max. Is it just plain not enough mat time?

I’m assuming you’re vegetarian since you said you eat cheese. If I were you, I’d be eating a lot of egg whites to boost your protein intake. Whey protein is good too. Aim for 1 gram of protein per pound of your target body weight.

You should also be lifting heavy, probably 3 times a week, but 2 is ok if you can’t find time for 3.

The two most important things for maintaining muscle during a caloric restriction is protein intake and resistance exercise.
 
I’m assuming you’re vegetarian since you said you eat cheese. If I were you, I’d be eating a lot of egg whites to boost your protein intake. Whey protein is good too. Aim for 1 gram of protein per pound of your target body weight.

You should also be lifting heavy, probably 3 times a week, but 2 is ok if you can’t find time for 3.

The two most important things for maintaining muscle during a caloric restriction is protein intake and resistance exercise.

Thanks, I currently have been supplementing with a plant based protein drink, any compelling reason to switch to whey? I'm open to it, just curious.
And yes I'm vegetarian.

I heard 1g a protein per lb of body weight before, but isn't that crazy high? I want to get to 177lb, I don't know how I could consume that much protein in a day honestly. Maybe being veggie is a barrier to hit that metric.
 
I’m assuming you’re vegetarian since you said you eat cheese. If I were you, I’d be eating a lot of egg whites to boost your protein intake. Whey protein is good too. Aim for 1 gram of protein per pound of your target body weight.

You should also be lifting heavy, probably 3 times a week, but 2 is ok if you can’t find time for 3.

The two most important things for maintaining muscle during a caloric restriction is protein intake and resistance exercise.
This is good advice also. 1,700 calories is not a lot so you can easily take in more protein and still be around 2200 calories a day which is more than enough for weight loss. If you are a beginner in strength training, it doesnt matter how much you eat. In the first 6 months you will become stronger just from neuromuscular development alone, Aka noob gains.
Focus on counting calories for now though, and if you feel like it try and start a 2 Day full body program to gain some strength. Also I've heard lentils have a good amount of protein, but I'm not a vegetarian so I have no idea what to eat.
 
According to my nutritionist, an accomplished registered dietitian who has worked with athletes for many years, a slower rate of weight loss is what will really keep you from losing muscle, along with consistent resistance training. She recommends 1lb/week. If you try to go much over that, certainly toward 2lb/week, which is what you say you're doing, you will lose muscle no matter how perfect your macros are.

Try 2,200 instead of 1,700 a day. I know it sucks to feel like you aren't pushing yourself as hard as you can to lose weight, but it will suck more to get to 177 and look no different because you lost as much muscle as you did fat. I'm in the same boat right now, trying to lose more slowly because I'm tired of winding up at a lighter weight but still over 20% body fat (I'm female).

Oh, and you don't need 1g/lb protein if you don't want, I think .82 is the recommended amount. Carbohydrates are what is called "protein-sparing," so if you eat slightly more of those around your workouts you will have more effective workouts and not require as much protein to recover.

Incidentally, do you own and use a food scale? That's pretty important for accurately measuring consumption.
 
You’re going to lose some muscle, accept that now. If you lift weights don’t change your program because your cutting weight. Eat protein before, and after ALL strenuous activity. That’s it.
 
Hi all,

I'm considering competing in early Dec. In the meantime I'm hoping to go down a weight class, and I'm going to need to lose about 2 pounds a week. A co worker who was in to body building for a while warned me that the body will break down muscle before fat if you aren't stocked up on protein.

I have done some research on my own, but honestly everything I read is like six page essay.

So I'm looking for some broad stroke advice. I.E should I just drink a protein shake daily?

My approach is reducing calories by cutting carbs. I'm not counting but I am more or less hungry most of the time and I last weak I hit my goal of losing two pounds.

The sort of stuff i'm eating right now is.

-Avocado and tempeh for breakfast
-hummus ,falafel, salad, cheese for lunch
-and dinner is gennerally some sort of lentil / bean with vegetables situation.

Thanks.
You might not lose 2 pounds per week but overall you should be able to hit your 12-15 pound goal pretty easily. There are many ways to skin a cat, remember that. And you gotta figure out what works best for you.

In my experience, the best way to lose weight rapidly while maintaining as much strength (and muscle) as possible, is to cut calories accordingly, continue to resistance train, but be mindful of the frequency, volume, and intensity. Your going to want to keep 2 of these 3 factors low. The most important thing will be providing the stimulus to hold onto that muscle/strength. Elaborate and/or longer duration resistance training workouts are not only unnecessary but also counterproductive. Hit a few heavy sets of the basic lifts 1-2 times per week and you should steer clear of failure.

For the diet, you can do the frequent, small, meals or an intermittent fasting type situation where you go long stretches of time with no food at all. For an athlete, I tend to think the more frequent but small meals are preferred. I would have you adhere to this. Aside from your skills training.

-Eat small servings (400-500 kcal) of balanced meals every 3 hours or so, but do not eat within 2-3 hours of bedtime.

-Hit 3 heavy sets of a push on Monday. 3 sets of legs/lower back on Wednesday. Do your pull on Friday. Well short of failure, your CNS is taking a beating from the reduced calories and skills training anyway.

Remember, your skills are priority. Coming into the event in peak shape is priority. Obviously your lifting and nutrition program will look much different when there is not a fight looming. Being vegetarian will help with satiety, inflammation, alkalinity, etc. Although itd be better on those fronts if you eat more like a vegan ; )
 
You need sources of fat, cholesterol, and protein to maintain performance nearer to optimum levels (be it physically, emotionally, or mentally). Make sure you are getting enough first, then start counting calories after that. If you need to cut things out, start with simpler carbohydrates first. Meat from animals raised on hay or silage (also known as 'grass fed') have radically different lipid and micronutrient profiles compared to grain-fed animals. Egg yolks are a great source of essential cholesterol, and also have many hard to accumulate micros besides (as you might expect from something meant to solely fulfill the nutritional needs of a developing organism growing it's CNS). Butter is a great way to add calories to a meal without spiking your insulin (in point in fact, insulin is even more anabolic than testosterone, which is why bodybuilders frequently dope with it alongside HGH), and it also provides some cholesterol as well. Everything that applies to meat in terms of effect on product applies just as much as well.

You need green leafy vegetables, and cruciform vegetables in particular, to get your extra large theraputic doses of most micronutrients. You can just eat lots of them without greatly affecting your calorie intake thereby anyways. Some people don't eat lots of green leafy vegetables, and hence have to try to make up deficiencies in their micros by buying multivitamins. This is foolishness of course. That being said, there are some micronutrients that can never the less realize increases in benefit even with very large doses through supplementation, such as vitamin c, or are otherwise difficult to source in diet all on their own to levels of greater benefit, such as iodine or vitamin d. (As a general rule, 'daily recommended' values are realistically 'bare minimum for continued function' values.)

Not all carbohydrate sources are created equal; even if you are bulking, it would be well to avoid materials that are high in lectins, such as most grains or legumes. Likewise, even if cutting, it can still be good to have a small bit of carbohydrates, and things like sweet potatoes, green peas, or chickpeas are good sources low in the sort of anti-nutrients that can make other plants in their class problematic. (A procedural exception would be the process of nixtamalization, or limewashing grains, where the alkali chemically neutralizes most of the lectins in the bran. Perhaps not so relevant too you at the moment though since you will likely be cutting carbs anyways. Something to keep in mind for bulking though, when looking to gain mass increases in insulin are a bonus.)

Im ambivalent about dairy; anecdotally, drinking milk neat gives me brainfog. I personally prefer to use it only if it's 'pre-digested' in some way, like fermentation (ie cheeses, sour creams, cultured buttermilks, and et cetera), or thermolysis (also known as, cooking with heat), or physically separated from most of the portions that can carry potentially problematic parts in some way (like butter). (As an aside, not all forms of fermentation are created equal; i personally avoid things fermented with yeast, which has been known to cause issues with some people.)

Water soluble fiber is the kind most relevant to gut health; microbes metabolize it and produce short-chain fatty acids as a by product, which are the primary energy source for your intestinal cells. Incidentally, it also slows down absorption of sugars in the small intestine, which evens out potentially damaging insulin spikes. Things like green leafy vegetables, avocados, sweet potatoes, peas, or lima beans, have lots of soluble fiber. Many fruits have some soluble fiber, but you may not want the extra sugar that comes with them (i personally make an exception for blueberries though). Citrus like grapefruits also have soluble fiber, but citrus juices like orange without pulp is basically a pure sugar spike with all the benefit removed.

A few words on fats: they're complicated. A few more words: generally, fats from animal sources or fruit sources (like olive, coconut, or avocado) are most amenable to processing by the human animal, while fats from grains or seeds (like soy, canola, or safflower) can cause problems. Fats from tree nuts occupy something of a middle ground, not especially great, but not particularly bad either (hazelnuts and macadamia nuts are amongst the best though, and if you like almonds or cashews those are fine too). Mytheo-poetically, you could see it as a difference between things that want to be eaten (fruits), and things that would rather not be eaten, if you please (grains).

On a more technical level, the lipids you want to avoid are ones with high volatility, also known as 'drying oils', that readily undergo autoxidation, producing free radicals. A graphic demonstration of this fact can be seen in how if, for example, someone makes the mistake of leaving a a pile of linseed soaked rags in a bucket somewhere, the heat produced exothemically by their oxidation can cause the whole thing to spontaneously combust. This is roughly analogous to what happens when it's inside the body.

The most stable oils are saturated and monounsaturated fats, while polyunsaturated fats are the most volatile (and hence should generally be avoided in cooking or consumption). This is a basic rule of thumb. A fact that complicates this rule of thumb (or perhaps rather 'adds nuance', if you will) is the fact that the much touted omega-3 oils just so happen to technically be polyunsaturates as well. You can refer this back to the 'animal source' rule of thumb with respect to fish oils. Amongst the three, docosahexaenoic acid (22 carbon 6 double bond) is the most important. Eicosapentaenoic acid (20 carbon 5 double bond) is useful in the sense that the body can more easily convert it to DHA. Alpha-linolenic acid (18 carbon 3 double bond) is the last omega-3 and takes the most difficult pathway to DHA conversion. There are some plant sources of ALA, like walnuts, but however much ALA they have is so often frequently coterminous with a significantly greater amount of other volatile polyunsaturates as well, so as to make a hash of it (one notable exception however would be chia seeds). (Ps, never heat an oil past it's smoke point [or char your meat or any other food for that matter], as this produces carcinogens).

As a general rule, you basically want to avoid consuming substances that your body does not have metabolic 'pathways' for, especially if they can be absorbed into the bloodstream anyways (like heavy metals or plasticizers). For a topical example things like artificial sugars, or things preserved with microtoxins like BHT, TBHQ, benzoate salts, nitrate salts, or propionate salts, or things like petroleum based food colouring (often denotated as [color] #[number] on ingredient lists). A bit of nuance to further illustrate the dynamic by example would be ethanol, which is by degrees toxic to humans, but they also have a pathway to metabolize it as well, so occasional consumption would not incur lingering knock-on effects of persistence.

And, make sure to get 8 hours of sleep and 2-4 quarts of water a day.
 
Last edited:
Is this last dude serious or has he read too much Paleo pseudoscience woo?

"Mytheo-poetically, you could see it as a difference between things that want to be eaten (fruits), and things that would rather not be eaten, if you please (grains)."

Lmao

You know vegetables also "don't want to be eaten," right?

Also, you're still on about lectins? Come on.

Butter is not a health food. It's fine in moderation but there are lots of other foods that don't "spike insulin." Butter isn't magic.

I'm so amused.
 
Back
Top