Presidential Pardons

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FIMN

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In light of all the talk of Flynn receiving a pardon and the history of Mark Ritch, Iran Contra convictions being commuted, is there an argument for doing away with presidential pardons altogether?

Surely as the head of the executive, and upholding the law of the land as even just an optics issue, shouldn't this be done away with entirely?

Interested in alternative viewpoints.
 
FIMN said:
In light of all the talk of Flynn receiving a pardon and the history of Mark Ritch, Iran Contra convictions being commuted, is there an argument for doing away with presidential pardons altogether?

Surely as the head of the executive, and upholding the law of the land as even just an optics issue, shouldn't this be done away with entirely?

Interested in alternative viewpoints.
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The presidential pardon is a constitutional power explicitly granted to the president.

There's a strong argument for limiting it's applicability in cases related to the president, though, because it can have the effect of rendering other parts of the constitution null if read as superseding them.
 
Quipling said:
The presidential pardon is a constitutional power explicitly granted to the president.

There's a strong argument for limiting it's applicability in cases related to the president, though, because it can have the effect of rendering other parts of the constitution null if read as superseding them.
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Interesting.

Ignoring the realpolitik of of it all - is this power as originally defined by the constitution fit for 2017/2018?
 
FIMN said:
Interesting.

Ignoring the realpolitik of of it all - is this power as originally defined by the constitution fit for 2017/2018?
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I don't think so, as at the time I think even the hint at this kind of impropriety would have sunk you, but that raises the question of whether the problem is this law being abused, or our acceptance of it.
 
Pardons probably should be done away with. They essentially serve as nothing more than a get my buddies out of jail free card.
 
What's stopping someone like Doctor Doom from hacking the fuck out of everything, dominating the fake news social media, bribing and murdering his way to the presidency, then when caught, pardoning all henchmen and pardoning himself?
 
hillelslovak87 said:
Pardons probably should be done away with. They essentially serve as nothing more than a get my buddies out of jail free card.
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How about cannot use pardons for related parties including family, in-laws, and buddies? The falsely imprisoned people freed via DNA evidence should be able to be pardoned, as well as people totally screwed over by racist judges who believe women shouldn't be allowed to vote or hold public office but are cool with sexually abusing children.
 
GSP_37 said:
How about cannot use pardons for related parties including family, in-laws, and buddies? The falsely imprisoned people freed via DNA evidence should be able to be pardoned, as well as people totally screwed over by racist judges who believe women shouldn't be allowed to vote or hold public office but are cool with sexually abusing children.
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In those situations, I would have a congressional committee, or maybe congress as a whole deal with that. Having one man with power like that, I dont know.
 
Pardons belong to a by-gone era when the King can just unilaterally determine anyone to be innocent or guilty of anything. It has absolutely no place in any modern democracy with rule of laws.

Remember when Continental Congress debated on whether they should refer to George Washington as "His Highness" or “His Elective Majesty" in the very first Presidential Inauguration of the United States, so he could be equal in status to all the Kings in Europe? That's the same mindset.

(For the record, Washington himself decided on "Mr. President", which endured all the way til now)

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Quipling said:
Sure.

Any more boring whataboutisms?
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the problem here is that Democrats have supported Bill Clinton 100%, and only 16 years later taken a stand.

if this pardon is wrong now, why was it okay for 16 years ???
 
Arkain2K said:
Pardons belong to a by-gone era when the King can just unilaterally determine anyone to be innocent or guilty of anything. It has absolutely no place in any modern democracy with rule of laws.

Remember when Continental Congress debated on whether they should refer to George Washington as "His Highness" in his Presidential Inauguration, so he could be equal in status to all the Kings in Europe? That's the same mindset.

(For the record, Washington himself decided on "Mr. President", which endured all the way til now)
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Yeah, that was a far simpler time. The daily issues that made something like a pardon with the first congress necessary are not here anymore.
 
The Prophet said:
the problem here is that Democrats have supported Bill Clinton 100%, and only 16 years later taken a stand.

if this pardon is wrong now, why was it okay for 16 years ???
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. Irrelevant. I wasn't a Democrat 16 years ago.

Whoever taught you attack someone's position by asking them to defend a third party's purported hypocrisy did you a disservice. It's unrelated to the merits of the issue, and it's also not relevant to the person that you're debating.

Do you have anything to say about the pardon power or not?

FIMN said:
Interesting.

Ignoring the realpolitik of of it all - is this power as originally defined by the constitution fit for 2017/2018?
Click to expand...
It's not clear it was entirely reasonable then, as discussed by other posters. It's one of the most abusable and poorly defined powers of the presidency.
 
Quipling said:
Irrelevant. I wasn't a Democrat 16 years ago.
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well if you want me to ignore this double-standard hypocrisy, i'll go in another direction.

there's nothing for Trump to pardon under the Constitution, because according to it, he has all the prosecution power.

and others have none.
 
The Prophet said:
the problem here is that Democrats have supported Bill Clinton 100%, and only 16 years later taken a stand.

if this pardon is wrong now, why was it okay for 16 years ???
Click to expand...
100% seems a bit much, and it's not relevant in any case. we're 2017, people might have I don't know changed their minds???

how do you know who was in favor of what for the past 16 years???

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 
The Prophet said:
al franken gets to stay in the Senate.

john conyers doesn't face expulsion.

liberals are double-standard hypocrites.
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And pussy grabbing Trump is President.

What Al Franken did should not get him thrown from the Senate, I'm waiting for a male to tell his story about some women flashing her boobs in his face and needing a second haircut for her short dress. Some of this stuff is ridiculous, some is not.
 
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