Prime vs Prime Iron Mike v Rocky Marciano

tyson as dangerous a he was didn't have many ways of setting his shots up, holyfield and several other fighters exposed this trait. watch tyson's fight vs don halpin if you want to see how easy it was for certain fighters to outbox him, people where also able to outbox marciano but he didn't get frustrated in the same manner, or start throwing a tantrum.

Are you seriously judging prime mike Tyson using the don halpin fight???

Tyson's 3rd professional fight which resulted in a 4th round knockout for Tyson? He had fought less than 2 complete professional boxing rounds prior to this fight. Actually did you even watch the fight? Tyson spent almost an entire round fucking around fighting southpaw..

Methink you don't understand the adjective "prime" in this conversation... :/
 
Are you seriously judging prime mike Tyson using the don halpin fight???

Tyson's 3rd professional fight which resulted in a 4th round knockout for Tyson? He had fought less than 2 complete professional boxing rounds prior to this fight. Actually did you even watch the fight? Tyson spent almost an entire round fucking around fighting southpaw..

Methink you don't understand the adjective "prime" in this conversation... :/
i was just using the halpin fight as an example, perhaps holyfield would have been better. o wait i mentioned him to.
 
Are you seriously judging prime mike Tyson using the don halpin fight???

Tyson's 3rd professional fight which resulted in a 4th round knockout for Tyson? He had fought less than 2 complete professional boxing rounds prior to this fight. Actually did you even watch the fight? Tyson spent almost an entire round fucking around fighting southpaw..

Methink you don't understand the adjective "prime" in this conversation... :/
also why did tyson spend a round "fucking around fighting southpaw", maybe he was getting frustrated?
 
also why did tyson spend a round "fucking around fighting southpaw", maybe he was getting frustrated?

or we go by my theory in that he was dicking around cause it was an easy win. Tyson coulda knocked him out whenever he wanted.

Using the don halpin fight made absolutely no sense in this thread since we are talking about a prime mike Tyson.

And as I have stated in this thread earlier prime Tyson era ended as soon as don king became his promoter. After Rooney was fired no one was around to keep Tyson straight or maintain his peekaboo skills. His defense had notably deteriorated and was practically nonexistent after his jail time. Hence both Holyfield fights are post Prime Tyson.
 
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Also Tyson was in his prime - he only lost to Buster Douglas before the Holyfield loss. Maybe not as hungry or as dedicated as he once was - but nevertheless in his prime. He lost pretty fair & square both times.

First of all, Ernie Shaver hit much harder than George Foreman according to ALL fighters who faced them both. secondly, Mike Tyson against Buster Douglas was not in Mikes prime. He had fired Rooney and looked awful in the matches followin. Tyson absorbed far more punishment than before and had terrible movement even in matches he won. No comparison.
 
First of all, Ernie Shaver hit much harder than George Foreman according to ALL fighters who faced them both. secondly, Mike Tyson against Buster Douglas was not in Mikes prime. He had fired Rooney and looked awful in the matches followin. Tyson absorbed far more punishment than before and had terrible movement even in matches he won. No comparison.

Sure nearly everyone that fought the two said Shavers hit harder. But Shavers also had a glass chin and physically wasn't nearly as strong as Foreman. The reason why I put Foreman higher up is because he was stronger, had an amazing chin & hit like a truck. It's very rare you get a heavyweight with a great chin who hits as hard as Foreman even at 45yrs old.

Tyson was in his physical prime unless you think he went out of his prime after 5 years of fighting professionally.... He lost the fight because he fired Rooney and was less dedicated to training & more interested in partying/drugs/hookers. But he was definitely in his physical prime - just not motivated.

The Tyson that faced Lewis though was well past it.
 
He lost the fight because he fired Rooney and was less dedicated to training & more interested in partying/drugs/hookers. But he was definitely in his physical prime - just not motivated.

Can we still say that he was in his prime then? For me, and i suppose for some others, prime Tyson, is a motivated 20y old kid, under Rooney...after that, even if he was still a top boxer, he was in decline...
Physical prime is just a part of it...
 
Can we still say that he was in his prime then? For me, and i suppose for some others, prime Tyson, is a motivated 20y old kid, under Rooney...after that, even if he was still a top boxer, he was in decline...
Physical prime is just a part of it...

Tyson was technically identical but his movements, that is to say everything outside of punching, was in definite decline. It's as if we magically make Roger Federer or Nadal slower (for whatever reason), yet argue that they are still in their prime because they hit the ball the same in stationary positions and is still the same age...
 
Prime Tyson is the greatest of all time in my opinion. If you jab to keep him away he just bobs and weaves in and destroys you. If you dont jab he just lunges in with a lead hook and destroys you.
 
Rocky was tough, but his chin wasnt Iron at that level of power. Hed have been KOd early due to him being 2 steps slower andnot being able to fight outside of Tysons woodchipper range.
 
Rocky was tough, but his chin wasnt Iron at that level of power. Hed have been KOd early due to him being 2 steps slower andnot being able to fight outside of Tysons woodchipper range.

To be honest Rocky Marciano's greatest strength was his durability & his ability to close distance quickly imo - his shuffle stepping allowed him to close distance very quickly on guys who had a significant reach advantage. He had a huge gas tank as well (I don't think I ever saw him tire really) and he had a rock solid chin (sure he got flawed a few times but almost back up instantly). You have to have a solid chin or some sort of defense mechanism to get in on someone with a significant reach advantage over you and be successful for over 49 fights.

As I've said because of weight differences Marciano would have been eaten up by Tyson. Marciano is giving up 35+ pounds on Tyson lol.

But I think Tyson never had Marciano's durability (including his stamina/chin/ability to close distance very quickly) - Tyson's strengths were his explosiveness & punching power and inside fighting. To add to that also Tyson is a much better overall athlete.
 
This is a though one to answer. On the one side Marciano was a man of his time. Heavyweights have grown a lot since the 50s, so he would have a hard time competing with a man whose bigger and stronger than him. But on the other side, Marciano had a tremendous punching power, cardio, and more heart than Tyson ever showed. So I believe if it wasn't for the huge weight difference Marciano would knock Tyson's teeth off.

I've just rewatched his fight with Rex Layne and it was interesting seeing Marciano's aggressive inside fighting. I think that's how a Marciano-Tyson fight would go for the most part. I don't see either of them backing down.
 
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This is a though one to answer. On the one side Marciano was a man of his time. Heavyweights have grown a lot since the 50s, so he would have a hard time competing with a man whose bigger and stronger than him. But on the other side, Marciano had a tremendous punching power, cardio, and more heart than Tyson even showed. So I believe if it wasn't for the huge weight difference Marciano would knock Tyson's teeth off.

I've just rewatched his fight with Rex Layne and it was interesting seeing Marciano's aggressive clinch fighting. I think that's how a Marciano-Tyson fight would go for the most part. I don't see either of them backing down.

Where you allowed to clinch fight back then? I thought striking while holding the person is not allowed.
 
I mean, the weight difference is the biggest problem (pun intended). Same weight-ish? Rocky. He don't quit.
 
Where you allowed to clinch fight back then? I thought striking while holding the person is not allowed.

Sorry, I meant inside fighting. Watch the knockout man. It's a thing of beauty. He hit him so hard that
Marciano's knockout punch sheared off four of Layne's upper, front teeth at the gumline and sent his mouthpiece bouncing with teeth included out of the ring

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Tyson would of had the advantage in the physical attributes, but Rocky had much more mental toughness.

So I would say Tyson was likely to win via early stoppage, if that didn't materialize, I would see Rocky winning by late round stoppage or decision.
 
Who wins Dan Henderson or Mark Hunt?

As good as Rocky was, and he was better than Tyson for his relative place in History, theres alot of weight given up. That weight matters for punch resistance power range etc in the case of these too
 
Prime Tyson is the greatest of all time in my opinion. If you jab to keep him away he just bobs and weaves in and destroys you. If you dont jab he just lunges in with a lead hook and destroys you.

Holyfield destroyed prime Tyson, once you have an Iron chin you destroy Tyson
 
Not many guys body punched Tyson and a lot moved away from him. There are convincing reasons in Tyson's favour for both of those things happening lol. Still Rocky would go to the body and he would have way more dog in him than Tyson so he would be on him constantly, not giving breaks for stamina. Rocky had good power in both hands too and he didn't slow or tire. Tyson would tire before Rocky and he might mentally fatigue quicker. Those are significant considerations in Rocky's favour: he gets conditioning and x-factors, Tyson gets a slew of physical advantages. He might be able to just shred Rocky. Maybe Rocky outlasts him and is the last man standing. Wouldn't be the first time. No disrespect to Tyson, since not many are as willing as Rocky to constantly toe the scratch. Rocky outlasted everybody. "Rock" describes his mental toughness aptly.

The size of modern heavyweights compared to the mid century and prior ones always affects how this conversation goes. As such, most moderns have a huge landslide advantage from their size alone. Rocky, in Tyson's time, would have been a cruiser (or even LHW with modern science behind weight cutting and nutrition), so another question could be CW Holyfield vs CW Rocky. That's a pick'em. Post Sonny Liston era HW's suddenly got bigger so comparing guys like Jack Dempsey to Lennox Lewis is awful difficult unless you can somehow reconcile the height disparity in those different eras. Fun to chat, hard to arrive at something conclusively...
 
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