Pro Wrestling History Thread

[BrooklynBomber]

I hated how Vince turned the Road Warriors face in WWF.

Vince didn't turn the Roadies face, the crowds did. Verne had them as heels when he brought them into the AWA but the crowd reaction for them(particularly in the northeast when Verne and JCP ran the Meadowlands) was so strong that Verne had to turn them face.

Mick Foley actually told a great story about how the first time he had met Curt Hennig was a Meadowlands AWA/NWA show in January or March of 85 and it was Curt and Larry Hennig against the Warriors with Paul Ellering and the Warriors were getting the crowd behind them. So Verne not being totally blind on the next supercard gets Crockett to agree to book the Warriors against the Koloffs to really cement them as babyfaces.

By the time the Roadies are leaving the AWA and jumping to Crockett they're already full fledged faces and feud with the Russians, Midnight Express, Horsemen, Powers of Pain, etc etc etc. So Dusty in his infinite wisdom is booking Crockett at the time, and decides that he's so over he can turn the Warriors heel by having the Warriors attack and turn on him, and he can give Sting a rub by teaming with him. So the Warriors jump Dusty on tv and use a shoulderpad spike to try to carve his eye out, and people cheer like all hell.

We get to the big Warriors vs. Sting/Dusty tag match and the crowd is about 70:30 for the Warriors. The Warriors are quickly turned face again and wrestling the likes of the Varsity Club and Skyscrapers before eventually jumping over to Titanland with Vince, where they really never got over as desired.

The problem was that by the time they brought in the Warriors, Demolition(Bill Eadie/Barry Darsow version) had established themselves over three years as one if not the best tag teams ever in the WWF, and with WWF television being so strong in every market the WWF fans really didn't see Demolition as the rip off, they saw the Road Warriors as guys trying to be Demolition.

Not to mention that when the Warriors officially came in and made their debut(7/14/90 IIRC on Challenge), Bill Eadie had just had a near death experience after an allergic reaction to shellfish that had similar effects to a heart attack. So they brought in Brian Adams as Crush and it became a watered down version of the team that the fans weren't really excited for. So the matches between the teams were either LOD vs. Smash/Crush, or six man tags with the Ultimate Warrior and Ax joining the fray. But there was never that big good blowoff match with the real Demolition against Hawk and Animal.

 

[BRF]

Vince didn't turn the Roadies face, the crowds did. Verne had them as heels when he brought them into the AWA but the crowd reaction for them(particularly in the northeast when Verne and JCP ran the Meadowlands) was so strong that Verne had to turn them face.

Mick Foley actually told a great story about how the first time he had met Curt Hennig was a Meadowlands AWA/NWA show in January or March of 85 and it was Curt and Larry Hennig against the Warriors with Paul Ellering and the Warriors were getting the crowd behind them. So Verne not being totally blind on the next supercard gets Crockett to agree to book the Warriors against the Koloffs to really cement them as babyfaces.

By the time the Roadies are leaving the AWA and jumping to Crockett they're already full fledged faces and feud with the Russians, Midnight Express, Horsemen, Powers of Pain, etc etc etc. So Dusty in his infinite wisdom is booking Crockett at the time, and decides that he's so over he can turn the Warriors heel by having the Warriors attack and turn on him, and he can give Sting a rub by teaming with him. So the Warriors jump Dusty on tv and use a shoulderpad spike to try to carve his eye out, and people cheer like all hell.

We get to the big Warriors vs. Sting/Dusty tag match and the crowd is about 70:30 for the Warriors. The Warriors are quickly turned face again and wrestling the likes of the Varsity Club and Skyscrapers before eventually jumping over to Titanland with Vince, where they really never got over as desired.

The problem was that by the time they brought in the Warriors, Demolition(Bill Eadie/Barry Darsow version) had established themselves over three years as one if not the best tag teams ever in the WWF, and with WWF television being so strong in every market the WWF fans really didn't see Demolition as the rip off, they saw the Road Warriors as guys trying to be Demolition.

Not to mention that when the Warriors officially came in and made their debut(7/14/90 IIRC on Challenge), Bill Eadie had just had a near death experience after an allergic reaction to shellfish that had similar effects to a heart attack. So they brought in Brian Adams as Crush and it became a watered down version of the team that the fans weren't really excited for. So the matches between the teams were either LOD vs. Smash/Crush, or six man tags with the Ultimate Warrior and Ax joining the fray. But there was never that big good blowoff match with the real Demolition against Hawk and Animal.

Count me in the not excited faction. I remember Demolition being one of my favorite tag teams as a kid and then lost a lot of interest when Crush was added. Good story BB, never knew the reasoning for adding the 3rd wheel.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Yeah I freely admit that Ax and Smash are my favorite tag team of all time and I was a much bigger fan of the Demos than I was of the Warriors.

If you remember too, Bill Eadie's last appearance as Ax was at Survivor Series 1990 but Smash and Crush carried on as Demolition until mid 1991. Eadie was supposed to transition to a backstage position as an agent, but with his health scare they reneged on the deal, so he got pissed and wrestled independantly as Demolition Ax, Axis the Demolisher, at one point there were negotiations to do a Demolition in WCW, and he even created a new Demolition member on the independants out of a jacked up rookie he named Blast. There was a lawsuit filed and it went on for years until it was settled between both sides. Eadie and Darsow can use the Demolition name and likeness to wrestle on independant shows now, so it obviously worked out for them.

 

[D.R.H.]

I grew up on the NWA, so although I liked Demolition, I saw them as the third best team in the world growing up.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

I grew up on the NWA, so although I liked Demolition, I saw them as the third best team in the world growing up.

Yeah and for guys who are around my age and upwards it seems silly to some to say what wrestling we grew up on, but things were still very much territorial up until the 90's in all honesty. I grew up in the heart of McMahon territory and a third generation fan to boot, and with the expansion in full blast the WWF was always the big leagues to me.

You've got a little bit more mileage on you(friendly jab of course), but in Florida which for the better part of twenty years was the biggest territory in the NWA and for a long time the best territory in the NWA, so it would be natural for you to be an NWA guy with the Orange Bowl being your MSG, and a place like the Fort Homer Hesterly Armory being more like a Manhattan Center or Allentown Civic Center.

Then you can bring DD into the mix and talk about the AWA being the only game in town around his parts and places like the St. Paul Civic Center, Bradlee Center, and Comiskey Park as the meccas and then a place like the Great Forks State Fair as a great wrestling venue.

 

[D.R.H.]

I became a Rockers fan later, but I remember arguing with kids in school (who became WWF fans during Hulkamania) about how the rockers were pussies and how if they ever got in the ring with the SST they would die. I mean they were like the southern boys without the redneck toughness. I remember everyone having the purple rockers shirt showing the guys in their zebra pants and thinking..."My god, people actually think these little homos could beat the SST? They think those tubby guys who stole the masks from the villians in The Beast Master could beat the Road Warriors or Steiners? What madness is this?" Fond memories.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

I became a Rockers fan later, but I remember arguing with kids in school (who became WWF fans during Hulkamania) about how the rockers were pussies and how if they ever got in the ring with the SST they would die. I mean they were like the southern boys without the redneck toughness. I remember everyone having the purple rockers shirt showing the guys in their zebra pants and thinking..."My god, people actually think these little homos could beat the SST? They think those tubby guys who stole the masks from the villians in The Beast Master could beat the Road Warriors or Steiners? What madness is this?" Fond memories.

I swear to God I wish I could find one of those purple Rockers shirts with the drawings of them on it in my current size. I'd wear it every other effing day.

Tracey Smothers probably would have kicked the shit out of Fatu and Samu at the same time though. That was a bad mother fucker.

 

[D.R.H.]

Setting the pattern early...The tag teams in WWF were never up to their NWA counterparts.

 

[DoubleDrive]

I liked the Midnight Rockers in the AWA. For some reason I hated them when Vince signed them. Too colorful for me. Brainbusters, Midnights and Harts were my favorites as a kid.

 

[D.R.H.]

Watching the Midnights, The R&R Express and The Freebirds go round and round was fun.

 

[BRF]

Yeah and for guys who are around my age and upwards it seems silly to some to say what wrestling we grew up on, but things were still very much territorial up until the 90's in all honesty. I grew up in the heart of McMahon territory and a third generation fan to boot, and with the expansion in full blast the WWF was always the big leagues to me.

You've got a little bit more mileage on you(friendly jab of course), but in Florida which for the better part of twenty years was the biggest territory in the NWA and for a long time the best territory in the NWA, so it would be natural for you to be an NWA guy with the Orange Bowl being your MSG, and a place like the Fort Homer Hesterly Armory being more like a Manhattan Center or Allentown Civic Center.

Then you can bring DD into the mix and talk about the AWA being the only game in town around his parts and places like the St. Paul Civic Center, Bradlee Center, and Comiskey Park as the meccas and then a place like the Great Forks State Fair as a great wrestling venue.

I grew up on WWF as well. I guy that worked for my Dad had a satellite and he would record the ppvs and bring them in for me to watch. The only exposure I ever had to WCW/NWA was going to my grandmas because she had TBS so I would watch it with my uncle who was about 7 years older than me. He was more into NWA/WCW.

 

[DoubleDrive]

Then you can bring DD into the mix and talk about the AWA being the only game in town around his parts and places like the St. Paul Civic Center, Bradlee Center, and Comiskey Park as the meccas and then a place like the Great Forks State Fair as a great wrestling venue.

The Bradley Center didn't open until early 89 IIRC, matter of fact, the Hogan/Savage angle was one of the first, if not THE first event there. Both Verne and WCW both ran the MECCA auditorium instead of the bigger MECCA Arena in Milwaukee. The auditorium is by far one of my favorite buildings in the world. Awesome acoustics, not a bad seat in the house and I got my first taste of the business in that building getting to take bumps from Steve Austin, Ricky Steamboat, Dustin Rhodes, Vader, The Steiners and other guys when I was 16. It smelled like stale beer, but it was home to me.

I got to see some good AWA TV tapings at the local high schools in Wisconsin in Manitowoc (my hometown), Marshfield and Eau Claire Memorial. Those were better than some of the Vegas tapings and obviously better than Greg Gagne's empty garage in White Bear Lake, MN. The old St Paul Civic Center was the Mecca though and that's where the big cards were held and the biggest ones at Comiskey.

As a kid, I remember my Saturday mornings consisting of NWA Main Event at 8:05am on TBS, then running outside to turn the antenna pole towards Traverse City Michigan to get NWA Worldwide at 9am. AWA on the local Green Bay station at 10am, WWF Superstars at 11am, WWF Challenge at Noon. Take a break and go outside then come back at 5pm to watch AAA on Galavision out of Milwaukee. I had the big dish back then so I got Channel America with South Atlantic Pro Wrestling (Vince Torelli!), ICW out of New York and USWA out of Dallas where I got to watch Steve Austin's debut and great feud with Chris Adams.

Ahhhh.. the good ol days....

 

[DoubleDrive]

In Minneapolis? Maybe they were mostly amateur wrestlers. Minneapolis was run by Tony Stecher, who was the brother and manager to Joe Stecher, one of the all-time greats in the sport. Joe had some mental stability issues, but he was one of the best in the ring.

Tony ran Minneapolis for a long time. I could see him trying to keep his area fairly pure with more shooters. Even so, he was the one who pushed for Bronko Nagurski to be World Champ. Nagurski was a famous pro football player from the Chicago Bears. He wrestled in his off seasons for Stecher in Minnesota. He was built slowly over several off-seasons from football. I have seen some footage of him wrestling, and he was very believable as a pro wrestler. Today he would look like a shooter compared to most "action soap-opera stars."

Unfortunately, Bronko wasn't a big draw away from Minnesota, so the title was switched to guess who?




.... little Jimmy Londos!

The guy who trained me was Jim Londos' nephew... I'm trying to remember some of the stories he used to tell me about Jim. Mostly centered around being drunk and stretching him. Chris was drunk all the time so who knows...

 

[CCH]

I was a Rockers fan as a kid. I liked the Harts, too. Bret is often looked at as being wooden, but I always thought he had more star quality than he was given credit for. Of course, I hate him now...

 

[BRF]

As a kid, I remember my Saturday mornings consisting of NWA Main Event at 8:05am on TBS, then running outside to turn the antenna pole towards Traverse City Michigan to get NWA Worldwide at 9am. AWA on the local Green Bay station at 10am, WWF Superstars at 11am, WWF Challenge at Noon. Take a break and go outside then come back at 5pm to watch AAA on Galavision out of Milwaukee. I had the big dish back then so I got Channel America with South Atlantic Pro Wrestling (Vince Torelli!), ICW out of New York and USWA out of Dallas where I got to watch Steve Austin's debut and great feud with Chris Adams.

Ahhhh.. the good ol days....

Those were the days. I started watching around 1985 when I was about 8 years old. That's when the wrestling magazines were great because you got actual news that you had no idea about from other territories, where now somebody posts spoilers before an event even hits tv, let alone reading about it 4 weeks later as if it is new news. When I started watching, most of my viewing was WWF Superstars and Hulk Hogan's Rock n Wrestling:icon_chee on saturday mornings and WCW on TBS saturday nights. Later I discovered WCCW was on at 4 on channel 13 weekdays so I would haul ass home from school to watch it. That's where I first saw Kerry V and some Ultimate Warrior rip off named the Dingo Warrior.

 

[Sexy]

The second greatest thread in the history of history.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

The second greatest thread in the history of history.

Is the first the thread about works turned shoots? Because that's what I think you mean

 

[Bobby Boulders]

I was a WWF kid growing up, but I was young in the 80's and don't have much knowledge prior to the first Wrestlemania. I watched some NWA but didn't really get involved until WCW separated from it.
I bow before you knowledgable fans of the game, and I've enjoyed what I've read in this thread so far

 

[44nutman]

When I was growing up, my parents got divorced when I was young, so I spent my summers in Delaware and my winters in Florida. Kind of like someone who was 70 and retired.
My dad and I watched WWF in the summers. My Dad was a 2nd generation WWF fan. We would go to the Spectrum or Salisbury, Md to watch any events in the summer. I would root for Bob Backland(dads favorite), Hogan and Snuka as a kid.
The winters in Florida my buddy's dad was a huge wrestling fan and we would go to the Melbourne Auditorium and watch Dusty Rhodes and his "Crimson Mask" (trademark Gordon Solie). I would root for Bugsy McGraw, both Windhams(I was angry to learn as a teen Black Jack Mulligan was their dad since he was a heel) and Dusty Rhodes but was always excited when Ric Flair came to town. I used to boo the shit out of Kevin Sullivan/Purple Haze as a kid due to his feud with Dusty.

I met Kevin Sullivan about 7 years ago and told him I used to hate him as a kid and he kind of laughed about it, he was cool when I met him. He told me people used to key his car and try to actually fight him during that period.
I would buy all the magazines to keep track of what was going in the other places when I was not there. I was lucky to be able to keep track of both territories and as a I got older it was easier to watch both.

 

[Big Burly]

I started watching wrestling at a very young age, probably around 1972. I don't remember it all, sadly. Getting old is a bitch!

Being in Oklahoma, I watched Mid-South, which was local to us. They ran big events in Tulsa and Oklahoma City. Their biggest events were held in the Superdome in New Orleans. I was a huge Bill Watts mark as a kid, then I latched onto Dusty.

We also got Kansas City wrestling sometimes, so I got to see some Central States action. Bulldog Bob Brown, Rufus R. Jones, Black Angus, and even an early Sgt Slaughter character (the Drill Instructor, "DI")...

We also got some World Class action from Dallas. Since Mid-South's territory was close to Texas, I saw a lot of the same guys on both shows: Skandor Akbar (he was a great manager and should be in any discussion for best ever managers), the Von Erich clan, the Freebirds, Chris Adams, Iceman King Parsons, the Missing Link, Bruiser Brody...

When cable became available in the late 1970s, we got it so I got into Georgia Championship Wrestling. I was a huge Mr. Wrestling II fan. There were too many great wrestlers moving through Georgia to mention, but I'll try anyway: Ted Dibiase (great heel!), the Masked Superstar, Buzz Sawyer, Ole Anderson, Stan Hansen, hell, even Baron von Rashke and da Crusher!

I was there when the AWA hit ESPN too. I hate that ESPN Classic won't show anything before 1985. They had some great shows from the Tropicana in Atlantic City. I remember a great Sgt Slaughter feud with Larry Zbyzko (sp?) over the Americas Title.

I also spent summers in St. Louis and got to see Wrestling at the Chase.

USA network used to show WWWF/WWF major house shows from MSG, the Philly Spectrum, and the Boston Garden. Those were great, especially during the Andre/Big John Studd feud. I enjoyed the Backlund vs heel Hulk Hogan feud too. I miss Gorilla Monsoon as an announcer, whether teamed with Jesse Ventura or Bobby Heenan, he was great.