Question For The Pro-Choice crowd

[LangfordBarrow]

I mean i know it's illegal to do drugs and that she has the choice to abort but should there be some form of legal intervention here?

Legally I think she's too far along at 6 months for an abortion. She should go to jail on drug charges, and if her baby survived, be placed with the state.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Of course, i don't beleive the pro-choice crowd would ever condone something like this vs a safe medical alternative but i think this really humanizes the fetus when we see someone who is willfully destroying her child like that. What makes me really curious to know is what would you do in this case? I mean that baby is either going to die, become severely deformed OR be born a crack baby. surely we can go past the "its her body" argument in this particular instance?

I would force this woman to get an abortion and throw her ass in jail if I could it isnt right to risk fucking the kid up like that. Im pro choice but if you arent going to get an abortion than you need to care for your unborn baby so it isnt born all messed up and at least has a chance for some kind of future

Im glad you didnt post the video my dude I feel disgusted just reading you describe it.

When I hear the phrase her body her choice I gotta tell ya I dont think this is what anyone had in mind.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Legally I think she's too far along at 6 months for an abortion. She should go to jail on drug charges, and if her baby survived, be placed with the state.

Im prolly opening up a can of worms being pro choice and saying this , but I feel like attempted murder and assault charges would be more fitting than some petty dope rap. like i said a second ago I think you should be free to get an abortion if you want but in no way shape or form should you be allowed to abuse a living fetus that far along

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Yeah of course there should be legal intervention.
That is the biggest issue with America. They have spent the last 200 years removing common sense from society and the law.
That's why you guys have all those stupid rules and conflicts because common sense has been successfully removed from daily life.

No one would ask this question in Europe. Should you intervene when a woman does hardcore drugs to intentionally kill or abort the baby?
Really? Common sense doesn't tell you the answer? It has to be a religious or right vs left debate?
Its not just abortion it everything in the US.
Like letting a guy buy 50 guns he can turn into automatic weapon is totally fine and legal.
Because of a piece of law written 250 years. Really? Commons sense doesn't tell you that might be a bad idea?

That "crazy" guy is just the same as the "druggie" girl in this thread. There are many reasons why gun ownership should be legal. Just because there are some instances where laws are abused doesn't mean everyone else should lose out on their freedoms.

 

[Fugazy]

We can't even take care of each other. Unborn = cargo. Yup, the old viability justification. If the history of this country has taught us anything, it's that no one has a right to live. We are still in the predatory phase of human development. Predators have prey. It is a struggle to live, to survive the competition...never cooperation or solidarity...those are dirty words today. If the fetus does not make it out of the gate, that's a shame. The rest of us carry on.

I noticed the example of a drug addicted woman trying to kill her baby through excessive drug use as a petard upon which the life of the innocent is hoisted. The right wing low grade human sees that jaded example and wants to punish the woman. That's the easy and facile answer for these thuggish brutes. And, as expected, it is glaringly incorrect. Punishment is the answer to many problems for the typical right wing authoritarian sado-masochist.

How did she get to that point? I won't press the matter any further except to note that we are our brother's keeper....and sisters too. How do people get to a state of despair where the deflection of life through drugs makes one want to kill one's own child? That is not natural. For those right wingers still picking their fuckng noses trying desperately to think up a snazzy insult, save it, I won't read it. The obvious implication of this post is that the complexities of the matter are not subject to reductionist conclusions....like bans or punishment. Come on, you can think, you can do it.

Who tha fook is this guy?

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

It's her body. The real shame is that there is no father to give her emotional support and a good hard smack as a reality check.

That's what a drug addict needs. A good hard smack.

That has always worked to cure addiction.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

A high level of self-awareness is not considered when it comes to the pro-life argument. The issue with abortion stems from the very reasonable belief that life begins at conception.

It's not reasonable to believe a zygote is a life. Until a brain, nervous system, and organs are fully formed there shouldn't be any debate.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Im prolly opening up a can of worms being pro choice and saying this , but I feel like attempted murder and assault charges would be more fitting than some petty dope rap. like i said a second ago I think you should be free to get an abortion if you want but in no way shape or form should you be allowed to abuse a living fetus that far along

Good point but the underlying issue is her drug addiction. That's the first thing that needs to be treated.

 

[IBeLurkin]

Just a disclaimer here but i do tend to lean more towards pro-life side of the debate but im not so rigid that i cannot be somewhat fluid on the topic, that aside i saw a video this morning on world star that was deeply disturbing to me and i would like to ask a question to the pro-choicers of the board and to see what they feel about the situation

Im not so sure im able to post the video so im just going to post the description as it is laid out on the site and if you want to see it than just go there and watch it yourself, its one of the first videos at the top



So there it is. A 21 year old girl doing hard core drugs daily while being 6 months pregnant in an attempt to kill her unborn child. Truth be told i have no clue how true that objective is but either way this bitch is clearly damaging her baby.

Question(s): What do you do in a case like this? Should someone intervene? Is this child abuse? Thoughts?

You have to realize this is exactly what the pro-choice side would like to avoid.

If a woman who doesn't want a child has the choice of a quick, professional medical procedure to end her pregnancy, do you think she would try to kill the fetus via drugs?

If you outlaw abortion, you'll see a HUGE rise in illegal (and terribly unhealthy) abortions.

Give women their reproductive rights. It's their body.

And we all know damn well if it was men that got pregnant there would be an abortion clinic next to every starbucks.

 

[Bagatur]

I am pro-choice. what she is doing is retarded. I hope she ODs, dies in the ER and they save the baby.

 

[WickedServant]

You have to realize this is exactly what the pro-choice side would like to avoid.

If a woman who doesn't want a child has the choice of a quick, professional medical procedure to end her pregnancy, do you think she would try to kill the fetus via drugs?

If you outlaw abortion, you'll see a HUGE rise in illegal (and terribly unhealthy) abortions.

Give women their reproductive rights. It's their body.

And we all know damn well if it was men that got pregnant there would be an abortion clinic next to every starbucks.

The last real abortion question really is:

Do we allow a women to escape consequences for bad choices and kill a human baby Citizen because she temporarily houses it inside her body?

If we talk honestly about the monetary value of rent in the womb, maybe we can stop talking about a dictatorial veto on every citizens life because "is it convenient for mom in the moment".

Wait, you think society caters to men? Looks to me like it systematically favors women. Criminal Law. Marital Law. Divorces. Custody. Police procedures. Education. Medical. Abuse shelters. Homeless shelters. Goes on and on.

If nothing else, fact check me on the homeless shelters. The poorest in our society. Compare numbers of womens to mens. It isn't even close.

 

[IBeLurkin]

Do we allow a women to escape consequences for bad choices and kill a human baby Citizen because she temporarily houses it inside her body?

You can't call an unborn fetus a human baby citizen. That's retarded.

Do we allow the man who created the baby off scott free in this scenario? Because that's another huge reason abortions happen. If the father isn't around/won't help out, is the mother supposed to take on the whole burden herself?

You say the fetus is "temporarily housed inside her body"...that's a hilariously shortsided way to look at having a baby, considering that woman will be taking care of that child for the rest of her life if she goes through with the pregnancy.

Outlawing abortions puts all the pressure on the woman while the man can leave at any point. Even if she puts the baby up for adoption, she can't work for months.

You can talk about whatever other laws favor men or women all you want, that has no bearing on this discussion.

Women deserve their reproductive rights. If they want early term abortions, it's their choice, and that's why it's the law.

 

[snakedafunky]

That "crazy" guy is just the same as the "druggie" girl in this thread. There are many reasons why gun ownership should be legal. Just because there are some instances where laws are abused doesn't mean everyone else should lose out on their freedoms.

Of course gun ownership is reasonable. Having a few guns for home defense or sport, hunting sounds reasonable to me.
Being able to legally buy 40 guns in a year or so and being able to easily modify them into automatic weapons so you can kill 50 people an injure 500 is not.
I mean common sense should tell you that should not be possible.

Like its no guns at all or you can buy all the guns you want even if you are an individual that shouldn't.
The US has successfully removed a common sense middle ground. The same for abortion.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

When I hear the phrase her body her choice I gotta tell ya I dont think this is what anyone had in mind.

Exactly!


I realize in my posts I haven't been very clear but by no means am I saying abortion should be illegal, actually quite the opposite i beleive we should have the option to abort but my beleifs on this topic revolve almost entirely around the babys quality of life rather than the girls choice.

If it's going to be deformed or live a terrible life perhaps abortion would be better. But the reason I'm addressing the pro-choice side is because of the "her body her choice" narrative and how far you are willing to push it. Personally I would also force her to get an abortion because past a certain point that's a human being perhaps they are not fully aware but still I think we can draw the line somewhere.

So basically would pro-choicers be a little more fluid when it comes to these situations in terms of penalizing her or forcing her to do something when it means that it would undermine one of there arguments?

I guess to be fair we can also ask pro lifers if they would have the baby aborted in this instance aswell.

 

[WickedServant]

You can't call an unborn fetus a human baby citizen. That's retarded.

Do we allow the man who created the baby off scott free in this scenario? Because that's another huge reason abortions happen. If the father isn't around/won't help out, is the mother supposed to take on the whole burden herself?

You say the fetus is "temporarily housed inside her body"...that's a hilariously shortsided way to look at having a baby, considering that woman will be taking care of that child for the rest of her life if she goes through with the pregnancy.

Outlawing abortions puts all the pressure on the woman while the man can leave at any point. Even if she puts the baby up for adoption, she can't work for months.

You can talk about whatever other laws favor men or women all you want, that has no bearing on this discussion.

Women deserve their reproductive rights. If they want early term abortions, it's their choice, and that's why it's the law.

If you think so, tell me when it becomes a human to you. Second trimester? Heart? Brain?

Law, if not society, punishes the man if it knows who he is. Is it too much to ask that the woman get a name before having unprotected sex with a stranger.

Woman have the reproductive right to choose who to reproduce with, when, or whether to reproduce at all.
Those are choices. Let's not pretend women are enslaved in this way.

We're talking about the act of making a human life and (messily) killing it.

I'd prefer all unwanted babies go through adoption process. Not a perfect system but more often than not the baby will be in better hands with new parents.

Fathers that want and can raise the child. What say should they have. I know some very good single fathers.

While I disagree with current laws, I do think technology is on my side; meaning the better we see into the womb the more general consensus shifts my way. We'll see.

 

[Renard]

Abortion exists for a reason. I find it ridiculous that religious types think that a woman is obligated to want to be a mother, as if women are only around for procreation and it's her duty to carry children - regardless if she wants them or not.

 

[ultramanhyata]

You cant murder someone who isnt born.

You're dead wrong. An act of violence that results in the death of an unborn child can be deemed homicide in 37 states.

 

[ripskater]

You cant murder someone who isnt born.

Ask Scott Peterson. He's in prison for it.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Abortion exists for a reason. I find it ridiculous that religious types think that a woman is obligated to want to be a mother, as if women are only around for procreation and it's her duty to carry children - regardless if she wants them or not.

That's not even whats being discussed.

 

[mike sherry]

no different from any other abortion attempts

just a bundle of cells afterall, her body blah blah

its never been conscious before whether it is male or female. it will not be upset that it "didnt get to live."

why do you think this is even relevant?