Question For The Pro-Choice crowd

[Soul Rebel 2]

This girl is trying to murder her unborn child by doing drugs. Whether or not they can punish her legally, I think most people recognize that this is highly immoral to kill your unborn child just because you want to. Except maybe some on the far left that celebrate their abortions.

Psalms 137:9

Hosea 13:16

 

[SMEAC]

All I know is that republicans should support more democrats killing the Democrat base

 

[Losfer Words]

What someone else does to their body is literally none of my business.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The last real abortion question really is:

Do we allow a women to escape consequences for bad choices and kill a human baby Citizen because she temporarily houses it inside her body?

If we talk honestly about the monetary value of rent in the womb, maybe we can stop talking about a dictatorial veto on every citizens life because "is it convenient for mom in the moment".

Wait, you think society caters to men? Looks to me like it systematically favors women. Criminal Law. Marital Law. Divorces. Custody. Police procedures. Education. Medical. Abuse shelters. Homeless shelters. Goes on and on.

If nothing else, fact check me on the homeless shelters. The poorest in our society. Compare numbers of womens to mens. It isn't even close.

A cluster of cells is not a citizen. The debate should be at what point of development is too far along for an abortion.

Pro life advocates should be raising money for orphanages and adopting or placing babies in responsible homes. It's easy to force your ideology on others without having to pay the costs of raising children or the cost to our society when unwanted neglected children grow up to be a drain on our resources.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Of course gun ownership is reasonable. Having a few guns for home defense or sport, hunting sounds reasonable to me.
Being able to legally buy 40 guns in a year or so and being able to easily modify them into automatic weapons so you can kill 50 people an injure 500 is not.
I mean common sense should tell you that should not be possible.

Like its no guns at all or you can buy all the guns you want even if you are an individual that shouldn't.
The US has successfully removed a common sense middle ground. The same for abortion.

The problem is in weeding out who should be disqualified from gun ownership and the loopholes that allow unscrupulous dealers and traders to make suspicious sales. If a responsible citizen enjoys guns and can afford a large collection there is nothing unreasonable about that.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Exactly!


I realize in my posts I haven't been very clear but by no means am I saying abortion should be illegal, actually quite the opposite i beleive we should have the option to abort but my beleifs on this topic revolve almost entirely around the babys quality of life rather than the girls choice.

If it's going to be deformed or live a terrible life perhaps abortion would be better. But the reason I'm addressing the pro-choice side is because of the "her body her choice" narrative and how far you are willing to push it. Personally I would also force her to get an abortion because past a certain point that's a human being perhaps they are not fully aware but still I think we can draw the line somewhere.

So basically would pro-choicers be a little more fluid when it comes to these situations in terms of penalizing her or forcing her to do something when it means that it would undermine one of there arguments?

I guess to be fair we can also ask pro lifers if they would have the baby aborted in this instance aswell.

I think you'd push it up to about 20-24 weeks. After that there should have to be extenuating circumstances.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

Ask Scott Peterson. He's in prison for it.

Dont know the case but of the baby wasnt fully developed then this shows that just because something is the law doesnt mean its a just law.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

You're dead wrong. An act of violence that results in the death of an unborn child can be deemed homicide in 37 states.

Yes those laws dont male any sense and are not just. They are as stupid and irrational as sharia law.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

If you think so, tell me when it becomes a human to you. Second trimester? Heart? Brain?

Law, if not society, punishes the man if it knows who he is. Is it too much to ask that the woman get a name before having unprotected sex with a stranger.

Woman have the reproductive right to choose who to reproduce with, when, or whether to reproduce at all.
Those are choices. Let's not pretend women are enslaved in this way.

We're talking about the act of making a human life and (messily) killing it.

I'd prefer all unwanted babies go through adoption process. Not a perfect system but more often than not the baby will be in better hands with new parents.

Fathers that want and can raise the child. What say should they have. I know some very good single fathers.

While I disagree with current laws, I do think technology is on my side; meaning the better we see into the womb the more general consensus shifts my way. We'll see.

You don't have to wait for technology with Trump in office. They're already rewriting policy to say life begins at conception.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Abortion exists for a reason. I find it ridiculous that religious types think that a woman is obligated to want to be a mother, as if women are only around for procreation and it's her duty to carry children - regardless if she wants them or not.

If men got pregnant too this wouldn't be as big a debate. If we were truly secular this wouldn't be as big a debate.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Yes those laws dont male any sense and are not just. They are as stupid and irrational as sharia law.

Things aren't always black and white. You can expect a fetus to become a born baby so forcing a woman to miscarry should be considered causing a death.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

Things aren't always black and white. You can expect a fetus to become a born baby so forcing a woman to miscarry should be considered causing a death.

You cant chop a tree down if you pluck the seed from the soil before it becomes a tree...

 

[WickedServant]

Abortion exists for a reason. I find it ridiculous that religious types think that a woman is obligated to want to be a mother, as if women are only around for procreation and it's her duty to carry children - regardless if she wants them or not.

It's called traditions, and it isn't restricted to religious types, and it isn't law.

 

[WickedServant]

A cluster of cells is not a citizen. The debate should be at what point of development is too far along for an abortion.

Pro life advocates should be raising money for orphanages and adopting or placing babies in responsible homes. It's easy to force your ideology on others without having to pay the costs of raising children or the cost to our society when unwanted neglected children grow up to be a drain on our resources.

If you make the choice to speed and get ticketed, tough.
If you get drunk and sleep with an AIDS infectee, tough.
If you spazz at your boss and get canned, tough.
If you're a woman and whore out for creampies, we'll kill the resulting life at your whim.

One of the above is not like the others...

 

[ultramanhyata]

Yes those laws dont male any sense and are not just. They are as stupid and irrational as sharia law.

Tell that to the couple who were expecting their first child and were robbed and beaten in their own home by intruders causing the wife to miscarry their unborn son.

I sense you're not a mentally healthy individual.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

You cant chop a tree down if you pluck the seed from the soil before it becomes a tree...

Surely if it becomes a little shrub and you stab the shit out of it a case can be made?

 

[lifelessheap]

Yeah of course there should be legal intervention.
That is the biggest issue with America. They have spent the last 200 years removing common sense from society and the law.
That's why you guys have all those stupid rules and conflicts because common sense has been successfully removed from daily life.

No one would ask this question in Europe. Should you intervene when a woman does hardcore drugs to intentionally kill or abort the baby?
Really? Common sense doesn't tell you the answer? It has to be a religious or right vs left debate?
Its not just abortion it everything in the US.
Like letting a guy buy 50 guns he can turn into automatic weapon is totally fine and legal.
Because of a piece of law written 250 years. Really? Commons sense doesn't tell you that might be a bad idea?

You sound like someone who grew up without freedoms. You are used to being totally controlled by your government. You are conditioned to fear rights and personal responsibility.

Someday I might have 50 guns. Why does this scare you?

 

[IBeLurkin]

If you think so, tell me when it becomes a human to you. Second trimester? Heart? Brain?

Law, if not society, punishes the man if it knows who he is. Is it too much to ask that the woman get a name before having unprotected sex with a stranger.

Woman have the reproductive right to choose who to reproduce with, when, or whether to reproduce at all.
Those are choices. Let's not pretend women are enslaved in this way.

We're talking about the act of making a human life and (messily) killing it.

I'd prefer all unwanted babies go through adoption process. Not a perfect system but more often than not the baby will be in better hands with new parents.

Fathers that want and can raise the child. What say should they have. I know some very good single fathers.

While I disagree with current laws, I do think technology is on my side; meaning the better we see into the womb the more general consensus shifts my way. We'll see.

I believe a fetus becomes a human once it is able to live on it's own. That is, completely separated from the mother.

If you can't physically live without being attached to your mother...you're not your own "being".

That's why early term abortion makes sense to me. It's still a part of the mother's body.

The man responsible still can easily get away even if the mother wants to have the baby. If you don't believe that in your fairytale world, check out reality: it happens ALL the time.

Technology is moving farther and farther away from natural childbirth, so idk wtf you're talking about. Parents are getting to the point to where they can choose the genetics of their baby, let alone if it's their natural child.

Abortion won't even be a thing once technology advances, birth control will be much more advanced by then.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

If you can't physically live without being attached to your mother...you're not your own "being".

What about conjoined twins? What if they cannot be seperated without dying. Are they not their own being?

 

[Curmudgeon]