Rabbis, Cardinals, Bishops, Evangelicals, and Billy Graham’s Agree...

luckyshot

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... faith leaders from every tradition are consistent in denouncing the Trump administration’s policy of separating children from parents.

“God have mercy on those who seem so nonchalant about the plight of children being separated from their parents,” said one prominent Southern evangelical.

Jeff Sessions quoted from the apostle Paul to defend his policy— faith leaders were quick to point out that he lifted one of the same passages that were used to defend slavery.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/16/6206...tion-policy-of-separating-children-from-paren
 
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Trump is the antichrist and the GOP is now his church. His cult members will be here soon to worship him.
 
... faith leaders from every tradition are consistent in denouncing the Trump administration’s policy of separating children from parents.

“God have mercy on those who seem so nonchalant about the plight of children being separated from their parents.”

Jeff Sessions quoted from the apostle Paul to defend his policy— faith leaders were quick to point out that he lifted one of the same passages that were used to defend slavery.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/16/6206...tion-policy-of-separating-children-from-paren

Jeff Sessions is using an Appeal to Authority that also mistakes civic law for religious law:

It is the law, we must follow the law because we are the law.

While at the same time it is not necessarily Biblical, and I disagree with his assessment on that end.

At the same time associating Jeff Session's logic with the logic used to defend slavery is also on the edge of being a bit of a "Reduction to Slavery" in an attempt to associate his ideas with something much more vile.

That's not great either...

In fact, religiously, Paul the Apostle probably would not have an opinion on the issue, and would not be up for naked Emotional Appeals from those who put their families in danger to break said law, or in a politician trying to score points with a poor reading of Scripture.

This is should be a civil matter, not a spiritual matter for many, many reasons...

It all reminds me of the recently dumped "Immigrant Saves Baby" thread.

How many immigrants save babies, how many immigrants are rapist criminals as per El President's statements, how many immigrants are hard working decent people, how many are transforming the native culture against the wishes of the people living in said culture?

These questions have many good debate answers... Jeff Sessions musings and the hyperbole attached to them, not so much.
 
As well, I am curious about the context.

Did Jeff Sessions just out of the blue inject theology into the mix, or was it in response to criticism by certain religious figures?

If Jeff Sessions was responding to a religious/moral criticism the whole point would be mute, if Jeff Sessions was throwing his religious opinions into the civic matter without promoting, then that "sucks."

Which is it?
 
Jeff Sessions is using an Appeal to Authority that also mistakes civic law for religious law:

It is the law, we must follow the law because we are the law.

While at the same time it is not necessarily Biblical, and I disagree with his assessment on that end.

At the same time associating Jeff Session's logic with the logic used to defend slavery is also on the edge of being a bit of a "Reduction to Slavery" in an attempt to associate his ideas with something much more vile.

That's not great either...

In fact, religiously, Paul the Apostle probably would not have an opinion on the issue, and would not be up for naked Emotional Appeals from those who put their families in danger to break said law, or in a politician trying to score points with a poor reading of Scripture.

This is should be a civil matter, not a spiritual matter for many, many reasons...

It all reminds me of the recently dumped "Immigrant Saves Baby" thread.

How many immigrants save babies, how many immigrants are rapist criminals as per El President's statements, how many immigrants are hard working decent people, how many are transforming the native culture against the wishes of the people living in said culture?

These questions have many good debate answers... Jeff Sessions musings and the hyperbole attached to them, not so much.
I disagree.

The policy of separating children from parents is a religious/ spiritual issue independent of any immigration or asylum debate.

That’s why so many faith leaders— including those who have been supportive of the overall Trump agenda— are speaking out against this practice.

Christian morality is deontological not consequentialist. This means it focuses always on the rightness or wrongness of the act itself rather than the material outcome.

A Christian can never endorse an evil action, no matter what it’s goal.

This issue of separating children from parents is completely independent of any larger immigration policy debate— from a Christian ethics point of view.

As well, I am curious about the context.

Did Jeff Sessions just out of the blue inject theology into the mix, or was it in response to criticism by certain religious figures?

If Jeff Sessions was responding to a religious/moral criticism the whole point would be mute, if Jeff Sessions was throwing his religious opinions into the civic matter without promoting, then that "sucks."

Which is it?

Sessions tried to use the Bible to respond to criticism against his policy from religious leaders on religious grounds.

Very weak sauce, indeed.
 
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I disagree.

The policy of separating children from parents is a religious/ spiritual issue independent of any immigration or asylum debate.

That’s why so many faith leaders— including those who have been supportive of the overall Trump agenda— are speaking out against this practice.

Christian morality is deontological not consequentialist. This means it focuses always on the rightness or wrongness of the act itself rather than the material outcome.

A Christian can never endorse an evil action, no matter what it’s goal.

This issue of separating children from parents is completely independent of any larger immigration policy debate— from a Christian ethics point of view.

(A)


Sessions tried to use the Bible to respond to criticism against his policy from religious leaders on religious grounds.

He tried to out-Bible the pros.

Very weak sauce, indeed. (B)

A. How long are the children and parents being separated?

Did the parents lead them to this end?

Why are they being separated and not repatriated in the country of origin?

I'm not an expert on all of this latest immigration noise so would like to know.

B. So he was cajoled into it by certain theologians?

I see.

And it is not possible that there is any explanation besides evil? Even possible? Or is Sessions literally a Hitler on this? And if so, why?
 
How come every time religion is introduced into politics it is for evil purposes?
 
A. How long are the children and parents being separated?

Did the parents lead them to this end?

Why are they being separated and not repatriated in the country of origin?

I'm not an expert on all of this latest immigration noise so would like to know.

B. So he was cajoled into it by certain theologians?

I see.

And it is not possible that there is any explanation besides evil? Even possible? Or is Sessions literally a Hitler on this? And if so, why?

You are really misunderstanding the basis of Christian theology. Christian theology is not a “balancing act.” What is good is good and what is wicked is wicked; what is wicked must never be done to try to attain a “good.”

Everything you mentioned in “A” is a potential mitigation. It is fairly irrelevant from the point of view of Christian ethics.

As to point B, yes religious leaders criticize the policy on religious grounds. Not sure what else thay are supposed to do.

Sessions, rather than ceding the religious ground— which would have at least been honest— tried to counter in kind. And did so terribly.
 
You are really misunderstanding the basis of Christian theology. Christian theology is not a “balancing act.” What is good is good and what is wicked is wicked; what is wicked must never be done to try to attain a “good.”

Everything you mentioned in “A” is a potential mitigation. It is fairly irrelevant from the point of view of Christian ethics.

As to point B, yes religious leaders criticize the policy on religious grounds. Not sure what else thay are supposed to do.

Sessions, rather than ceding the religious ground— which would have at least been honest— tried to counter in kind. And did so terribly.

I am afraid there is more to understand.

Christianity is not a balancing act, and yet, is not a world of absolution. There are clear right and wrong moral decisions, there are complex decisions, and there are ones meant for -personal- and as a -church- pursuing moral greatness, and a world that is in search of low, worldly things - money, power, title. (There are a lot of good books about this, but the seminal tome is The City of God.)

- Ask a common man how he understands the Trinity.

- Ask an educated man how he understands the Trinity.

- Ask a studied theologian how he understands the Trinity.

- Ask a serious religious philosopher how he understands the Trinity.

All different answers, all valid in knowledge or in nativity, and none will prevent one from "knowing God" in a Christian sense, or however one wishes to see that psychologically.

To be a Christian and to follow Christian principles adapts to the culture, and in a rather intriguing way was designed to be that way. (Where say Islam will force the culture to adhere, Christianity gave us the greater concept of liberalization along with Greek, Roman, and some other scattered ideas.)

They will all give you what they consider to be well founded spiritual answers, and, those answers will not amount to anything because the concept of the God of Abraham and the meaning of that to people is vast and deep.

Whether fanciful fairy tales or part of a greater understanding, as pointed out many, many times Jesus would be the first to say not to judge, to remedy in a merciful but wise way, to consider all the possibilities to be thought of as well as the emotions, the want.

Which brings me to a singular question, one that you can really help me understand, no sarcasm at all:

What is evil here, what is the full situation as you see it, and why is Jeff Sessions acting on evil in a Christian way, and not just doing what rulers do for their subjects? Then I can try to give a modest theological answer.
 
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When it comes to religion there is a lot of "No True Scotsman" going around.

- A true Christian would never vote for Hillary, she supports abortion.

- A true Christian would never vote for Trump, he is cruel to immigrants.

Almost the same game as...

- A true Christian can not be a Catholic, he does not follow the Bible and Catholics will go to hell for their traditions.

- A true Christian is a Catholic, Catholicism is the first and one true church and everyone outside of that church is going to hell.

Yes - "judge not" is "everyone judges," and few really care to understand much of anything, which the New (and Old...) Testament implicitly and explicitly remind.

What did Jesus of Nazareth say?

The God of Abraham judges the "heart," not a lot of petty things about who likes what politician, or convoluted consequential arguments about whoever you voted for or against.

In fact Jesus of Nazareth said that is all irrelevant, and everyone will fall short of that glory... the aim is salvation, to know God through Jesus and to follow the "narrow path" to spiritual revival with God.

Who loves Trump or Obama more is much, much less relevant than who tries to follow what Jesus Christ, Paul the Apostle, Peter and John et al. tried to lay out, the
 
I wonder which side Rip is going to take, his religion or his God(Trump)?
 
Well, we better get rid of all the prisons then. You know how many children get separated from their parents do to prison terms? Please...
 
Well, we better get rid of all the prisons then. You know how many children get separated from their parents do to prison terms? Please...
Children are put into dentition away from any caring family/ adult when a parent is sentenced to jail. And there are visitations as well.
 
Children are put into dentition away from any caring family/ adult when a parent is sentenced to jail. And there are visitations as well.

So you're ok with separating children from their parents as long as they get to visit for a few hours?
 
Why won't anyone think of the job creators?

What would Jesus do for the job creators?
 
You are really misunderstanding the basis of Christian theology. Christian theology is not a “balancing act.” What is good is good and what is wicked is wicked; what is wicked must never be done to try to attain a “good.”

Everything you mentioned in “A” is a potential mitigation. It is fairly irrelevant from the point of view of Christian ethics.

As to point B, yes religious leaders criticize the policy on religious grounds. Not sure what else thay are supposed to do.

Sessions, rather than ceding the religious ground— which would have at least been honest— tried to counter in kind. And did so terribly.
As there is nothing specific in the bible pertaining to this very specific issue as it relates to children there really is no religious argument either way. This is a purely secular matter and dependant on ones interpretation as to evil or not evil. We have children removed from parents everyday for less than obvious physical or mental abuse. For in fact simply parenting and discipling their children in the same manner their parents and grandparents before them maintained discipline in their households with corporal punishment. Throw in issues of gender identity and what a parent may not allow before a child reaches a particular age or their majority when they can legally make those choices on their own.

Children, and how we deal with them, is always a convenient bludgeon to push a personal ideology of right and wrong.
 
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Why are they blaming Trump when it's the democrats?

As I understand it every time Trump tries to put in the simple phone call it would take to end the practice, the Obama loyalists at DHS call Barack for the official go ahead. But he keeps vetoing the decision.

It's classic Deep State shenanigans.
 
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