*Revised* My Custom Neurotransmitter/Nootropic/Pre-Workout Formula

Madmick

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What is a Nootropic?
In a nutshell, a nootropic is a substance that will increase the availability/utilization of acetylcholine in the brain (acetylcholine is a chemical transmitter in the peripheral and central nervous systems)- theoretically improving performance potential (i.e. the ability to lift heavier weights with the same muscle mass). Some are precursors to acetylcholine (Choline, DMAE); some increase celluar fluid around the membrane; some inhibit the enzyme that breaks acetylcholine down (Huperzine A); some enhance cholinergic reception (Racetams); some simply increase blood flow to the brain (Ginkgo Biloba, Vinpocetine). But nearly all the supplements mentioned here operate for the same end-goal: to improve acetylcholine transmission. Perhaps the most enticing aspect of these supplements to athletes is that- unlike with stimulants- the body does not adapt and diminish in sensitivity to them over extended periods of usage. Nootropics also may be useful in CNS recovery.
James South said:
The concept and definition of a "nootropic drug" was first proposed in 1972 by C.E. Giurgea, the principal PIR researcher and research co-ordinator for UCB, the Belgian company that launched PIR. "The main features... defining a nootropic drug are:
(A) the enhancement, at least under some conditions, of learning acquisitions as well as the resistance of learned behaviors to agents that tend to impair them;
(B) the facilitation of interhemispheric flow of information;
(C) the partial enhancement of the general resistance of the brain and particularly its resistance to physical and chemical injuries;
(D) the increase in the efficacy of the tonic cortico-subcortical control mechanisms; and
(E) [absence of the usual negative pharmacologic effects of psychotropic drugs]." (Giurgea and Salama 1977).

Giurgea derived the term "nootropic" from the Greek words "noos" (=mind) and "tropein" (=to turn toward).

Primer: check out this page:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys5/smrtdrgs.htm
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/nootr.htm
On this page, find the chart ranking the nootropics (the chart is controversial, but useful):
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=6&t=4259&st=0&#entry37508

For a detailed overview of the nootropic agents and their effects, check here:
Judo Kid's Complete Nootropic Guide

Notes on Purchasing:
Unless otherwise specified, all prices are for Bulk Nutrition aka 1fast400. The only item mentioned unavailable for purchase there is the Natrol Memory Complex. For the premium formula, a superior substitute for the Lecithin would be 2-3 bottles of Greens+, but that alone will run you $70-$90 (however, taking Greens+ is like taking another supplement altogether, and a more necessary one than a neurotransmitter; nevertheless, it may inhibit some of the tyrosine's effects). Also, I'm not fully comfortable recommending NOW supplements given their reputation among users, but I still don't know if that reputation is concretely warranted, and I did this to make the purchasing of the stack as convenient as possible.

Premium Custom Nootropic Formula
1) NOW Foods, Lecithin (97% Phosphatides - NGE), 1 lb, $7
2) 1fast400, L-Tyrosine Powder, 250g, $12
3) 1fast400, DMAE Powder, 100g, $5
4) 1fast400, Piracetam Powder, 250g, $10
5) Natrol, Memory Complex#, 3 x 60 Tabs, $22.5*
*Price for "Value Nutrition Store"
#Includes: B-Vitamin Complex, Gingko Biloba (120mg), Huperzine A (100mg), Lecithin (100mg), Phosphatidylserine (15mg), Vinpocetine (10mg)
Total Cost: $55
Total Servings: 90
Price/Serving: $0.61

Note: If money really isn't an issue, you might consider replacing the piracetam with aniracetam/oxiracetam and the Lecithin with Alpha GPC.

How Much to Use in Mixtures:
1) All
2) All
3) All
4) All
5) 2 Tablets per Serving

Inexpensive Power Drive Imitation Formula
1) NOW Foods, B-50 (Vitamin) Complex, 4 oz, $9
2) 1fast400, DMAE, 2 x 100g, $10
3) 1fast400, L-Tyrosine, 500g, $20
4) NOW Foods, Lecithin (97% Phosphatides - NGE), 2 x 1 lb, $14
Total Cost: $53
Total Servings: 200 servings
Price/Serving: $0.27


How Much to Use in Mixture:
1) All
2) All
3) All
4) All

Cost/Value Analysis:
Cost per 2 servings (2 servings= 1 Workout Day)
Premium Custom Formula: $1.22/day
Power Drive Imitation: $0.58/day
Biotest, Power Drive: $1.13/day
Scivation, Neurostim: $2.14/day

I've compared the two formulas that mine most closely resembles (the choline/tyrosine combos of Power Drive and Neurostim). This is based on a two-servings-per-day intake. The first is ideally taken 45 minutes prior to working out (up to 4 hours is acceptable), altough it should be taken on an empty stomach, so you may have to schedule it 30 minutes before your pre-workout meal (which comes an hour or so before the workout). Then another taken after the workout either with your PWO drink or a few hours after the PWO meal following the workout.

The Biotest is actually a competitive value, so a really easy stack is the Power Drive plus the Natrol Memory Complex. If I could add only one thing to that, it would be Aniracetam/Piracetam/Oxiracetam.

Examples of Products These Custom Formulas Mimicks:
Biotest, Power Drive
BrainQuicken, Bodyquick
Ergopharm, Psychotropin
MRM, NeuroMax II
Neutroceutics, Gerovital
Scivation, Neurostim + C
Syntrax, Cerebro

Nootropics and Nootropic-Related Agents (for Your Own Research):
Alpha GPC (Alpha-Glycerylphosphorylcholine)
Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Adrafanil (Olmifon)
Aricept
Ashwganda
Bacoba
Caffeine
Centrophenoxine (Lucidril)
Desmopressin (DDAVP)
DMAE (Dimethylethanolamine)
Fipexide
GABA (Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid)
Galantamine
Gingko Biloba
Huperzine A
Hydergine
Idebenone
L-Dopa
L-Phenylalanine
L-Tyrosine
Lecithin (Phosphatidylcholine)
Methylphenidate (Ritalin)
Milacemide
Modafinil (Provigil)
Nicergoline
Perodozine
Phosphatidylserine
Picamilon
Pyritinol (Enerbol)
Pyroglutamate
Racetams:
- Aniracetam
- Oxiracetam
- Nefiracetam
- Piracetam
- Pramiracetam
Selegenine (Deprenyl)
Sulbutiamine (Arcalion)
Vassopressin
Vinpocetine
 
Bump!

Sorry, been sleeping very little because of work and my memory and focus is down, does these supplements work? What should I try and start with?
 
damn mick ,you got way to much free time on your hands, but i would love to see how people like it aka if it feels as effective as the brandnames
 
I'm impressed, and inspired to give it a go making some of my own generics.

Nice work.
 
Bman said:
damn mick ,you got way to much free time on your hands
This is very true.
 
Chad Hamilton said:
How about a sleep formula?
Like a before-bed shake? Yeah, I could do one of those. It'd be really simple. There's not a host of stuff I'd go cramming before bed.
 
Chad Hamilton said:
How about a sleep formula?

If by sleep formula, you mean "help you sleep formula" I'm all ears.
 
Added a new section to the main post.
 
Overhauled this thread. I decided I needed two formulas without compromise instead of one with.
 
Are you taking all this right now, madmick? If so, how is it working for you? I've been following nootropics for a while now and I'm interested to see someone else sees their merit for strength training, and not just being the preserve of erowid.org moon-worshippers. I did post about this a while ago and I think someone shot it down on the basis that Piracetam raises GABA levels thus inhibiting the CNS, have you found anything to confirm or deny this?
 
CelebritySexist said:
Are you taking all this right now, madmick? If so, how is it working for you? I've been following nootropics for a while now and I'm interested to see someone else sees their merit for strength training, and not just being the preserve of erowid.org moon-worshippers. I did post about this a while ago and I think someone shot it down on the basis that Piracetam raises GABA levels thus inhibiting the CNS, have you found anything to confirm or deny this?
Well, Piracetam is a derivative of GABA. I believe I recall reading somewhere that GABA levels might be raised by taking the racetams, but I'm not sure. Nevertheless, what is the consequence of raised GABA levels? It's true that GABA is a inhibitory neurotransmitter, but that is a necessary part of the process. GABA actually opens up ion channels in the cells of the brain- allowing magnesium and chloride to travel in and out. Wikipedia reports that it mediates muscle activation in insects between the synapses and the muscle cells. Basically, GABA enables the cells to maintain homeostasis during increased celluar activity.

As for Piracetam, it is the original nootropic, and in the last few days I've read more positive material on it (and the other racetams) than any of these other substances. It's improved memory (for all ages) and impressively improved other cognitive functions in many studies, it's protected against cellular damage during consumption of alcohol, and (like with Huperzine A) it's shown some potential for fighting Alzheimers.

Why Piracetam isn't included in the Power Drive stack I don't know (it's not expensive), but I read at a forum one user said Berardi himself had told him he took Piracetam with his Power Drive PWO (along with his Surge).

Do I take this? No, but I'm going to (if I have a cash flow when I run out of what I have, I'll probably substistute aniracetam for piracetam in my custom stack). What I have used the last 6 months (preworkout) is this:
Biotek, Ephedrine + Guaifenesin
ProLab, Caffeine
Greens+
Scivation, Neurostim (got a free bottle last year, liked what it did, bought some more)
1Fast400, GABA

And let me tell you, that gets me amped up. For lifting, that's great. But for martial arts, I'm might get a little too amped up.
 
Hey Mick, I was just about to stock up on Neurostim... I didn't realize Power Drive was so cheap! $17 for 30 servings? Neurostim is $28 for 30 servings.

That's a pretty significant difference!


Have you tried Power Drive? It's been a few years since I've used Biotest products. I think I'll give this a try instead of the Neurostim.
 
No, I haven't, but it should also be awesome.

The ingredients the Neurostim includes that Power Drive doesn't are ALCAR (Acetyl-L-Carnitine), Huperzine A, Vinpocetine, and Caffeine. For this reason, IMO, Neurostim has Power Drive beat in terms of sheer formula...but in terms of cost/benefit analysis, I'd have to try the Power Drive to make a comment.

I might give the Power Drive a shot. But I like my custom formula, and I want to give it a shot.
 
isnt this what the new xenadrine hardcore formula is all about?
 
bobnurse said:
isnt this what the new xenadrine hardcore formula is all about?
Cytodyne Xenadrine Hardcore. Yes.

But their formula sucks. It may look cheap, but look more closely. You get 625mg mass per "serving" (1 pill, 90 pills total, $33). And that's for everything. It's about 1/5 caffeine. There aren't enough of the other ingredients for them to be effective. You'd have to take like 10 pills at a time, and that would be a major caffeine overdose (not to mention a major expense).

Just a personal opinion, but I think Cytodyne sucks balls. Not to be confused with Cytosport which I think is pretty cutting edge.
 
I'll let you know what I think of Power Drive, I have two bottles that should be here on Thursday.

The nice thing about Nootropics are you pretty much instantly know it's working for you - just have to worry about how long til you build up a tolerance.
 
Valgarv said:
I'll let you know what I think of Power Drive, I have two bottles that should be here on Thursday.

The nice thing about Nootropics are you pretty much instantly know it's working for you - just have to worry about how long til you build up a tolerance.
That's the cool thing about them: supposedly, you're unable to build a tolerance to them (as you are with stimulants). If this happened with the Neurostim, it probably was because of the caffeine.

I very much look forward to your comparison of the two formulas.
 
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