Sakuraba vs Takada (Dojo Spar) from 1990's

Escabar said:
Saku, Kanehara and Tamura weren't really Takada students they were students. Takada trained under Gotch who never really mentioned him when talking about his best students although he did say Suzuki was the toughest guy he trained. The vids are just Saku being kind like a younger brother who is much better then his older bro but lets him win not to hurt his ego. Takada was a popular pro wrestler but a sub bar fighter and not a great coach just took credit.
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I don't know why everybody's trying to discredit Nobuhiko Takada who clearly was the best MMA fighter from UWF.

Billy Robinson, so called wrestling coach for UWFi, lived in Japan from 1999-2008 but UWFi existed from 1991-1996. I don't think there were many chances Takada's guys had privates with Robinson. UWFi fighters lived together at Takada's residence and trained together. They shared the same techniques and training regime that Takada designed for them.

Sakuraba, Kanehara and Tamura got really good with real MMA while they were full time employee at UWFi. They might have ruined their career if they had trained elsewhere (I wouldn't mention any names).
 
I had a chance to speak with Yoji Anjo last month. He didn't say he learned everything from Takada but he agreed that every fighter who watched closely and tried to follow the footstep of Takada became damn good.
 
JacJeanFinger said:


Exhibition spar that Takada did when he was 34. What can I say, almost 100% of Sakuraba's techniques directly comes from Takada. There's no doubt about it.
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Maybe so, but all I’m saying is no version of Takada beats Saku in an MMA match. Takada was and is an icon, and during that time, I’m confident Takada is supposed to appear more accomplished simply because he’s a bigger name. I’m not saying Takada doesn’t have any skill, just that Saku really made it a point during an interview to suggest that the bulk of his fighting prowess came from elsewhere.
 
Coconutwater said:
Maybe so, but all I’m saying is no version of Takada beats Saku in an MMA match. Takada was and is an icon, and during that time, I’m confident Takada is supposed to appear more accomplished simply because he’s a bigger name. I’m not saying Takada doesn’t have any skill, just that Saku really made it a point during an interview to suggest that the bulk of his fighting prowess came from elsewhere.
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Sakuraba and Takada visited Beverly Hills Jiu-Jitsu club in 1998. I heard from BHJJ students that Takada was having a lot of trouble with blue belts and Sakuraba armbarred chief instructor and his top student (Marc Laimon, founder of Cobra Kai in Las Vegas) under a minute. It was around the time Shoji and Takase (ADCC competitors who are known for excellence in grappling) trained with Sakuraba and both of them had to be tapping out all day while having no fighting chance (according to Takase).

It is probably safe to say that Sakuraba had more effective ground skills than Takada in 1996- and after. But Takada was always a better striker and under UWF rules (several rope escapes allowed) I believe he had advantages due to his strength, size and experience. Who is a better fighter? It's hard to say because they started their career at the different times and had different responsibilities for the sport. Anjo says Tamura had the best MMA striking and Sakuraba the best MMA grappling, but neither had the same caliber of Takada and Sayama who created the new sport and uplifted the whole generations to a new level.

(Anjo specifically mentioned Takada and Sayama as genius and said the rest couldn't have gotten anywhere without their guidance and inspiration.)
 
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Takada was textbook.. SAKU was next level, full of traps, slick transitions, hard to read him on the ground...

"During fights, you have to do a lot of feints, you can´t always do the same ones...
Except with some dudes, who are really stupid.. " - SAKUGOAT
 
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Coconutwater said:
No footage of Takada will allow me to believe he can or ever has schooled Saku.

Admittedly, Saku has said that Takada is not his “Teacher” or instructor, and only serves as his “Senior” in Japanese culture, meaning, Saku will behave with the utmost respect and deference based on age and relative accomplishment, particularly at the work place.

As head of Takada dojo, Saku HAD to work under Takada’s wing.
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SAKU was actually a weirdo, and under certain circumstances, he would behave as such...Act, fight differently... as if he were bored, or cocky...

See his fights against Arsene or Schembri, for instance...

I wouldnt put too much stock in these sparring footages...
 
JacJeanFinger said:
Sakuraba and Takada visited Beverly Hills Jiu-Jitsu club in 1998. I heard from BHJJ students that Takada was having a lot of trouble with blue belts and Sakuraba armbarred chief instructor and his top student (Marc Laimon, founder of Cobra Kai in Las Vegas) under a minute. It was around the time Shoji and Takase (ADCC competitors who are known for excellence in grappling) trained with Sakuraba and both of them had to be tapping out all day while having no fighting chance (according to Takase).

It is probably safe to say that Sakuraba had more effective ground skills than Takada in 1996- and after. But Takada was always a better striker and under UWF rules (several rope escapes allowed) I believe he had advantages due to his strength, size and experience. Who is a better fighter? It's hard to say because they started their career at the different times and had different responsibilities for the sport. Anjo says Tamura had the best MMA striking and Sakuraba the best MMA grappling, but neither had the same caliber of Takada and Sayama who created the new sport and uplifted the whole generations to a new level.

(Anjo specifically mentioned Takada and Sayama as genius and said the rest couldn't have gotten anywhere without their guidance and inspiration.)
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Good info. Some of this stuff I haven’t read or heard.

Yeah, nothing personal, but I’m just not that impressed with Takada. He was fun to watch in pro-wrestling however.
 
I think a Takada that starts and dedicates himself to MMA, or shoot fighting given the timeline, at a younger age would be viewed much differently than he is now. I respect the guy for having a part in training some great fighters and think very highly of him as a pro-wrestler. World beater Takada is one of the all time great championship runs in pro-wrestling.
 
JacJeanFinger said:
Sakuraba and Takada visited Beverly Hills Jiu-Jitsu club in 1998. I heard from BHJJ students that Takada was having a lot of trouble with blue belts and Sakuraba armbarred chief instructor and his top student (Marc Laimon, founder of Cobra Kai in Las Vegas) under a minute. It was around the time Shoji and Takase (ADCC competitors who are known for excellence in grappling) trained with Sakuraba and both of them had to be tapping out all day while having no fighting chance (according to Takase).
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And yet, despite this piece of evidence directly refuting your claim of Takada being better than Sakuraba, you STILL believe it?

Do you realize how silly your evidence is?

1. Some old-school training footage where Saku no doubt didn't want to offend the politically powerful and popular Takada, who could easily squash his career?

2. Yoji Anjo, an absolute scrub, praises his teacher and mentor. So what?

Our evidence? Takada's actual fights, where he showed crappy wrestling, jits, and striking. And whose only wins were hilariously fixed, worked fights that embarrassed the fucking sport and the career of an ACTUAL legend in Mark Coleman.
 
JacJeanFinger said:
After retiring from MMA, Minoru Suzuki recently confessed in an interview that no founding members of PANCRASE stood a chance against prime Takada, then a teammate of theirs. "Takada-san would submit every one of us at the dojo."

They got tired of their asses getting kicked by Takada and it was one of the main reasons why they had to start a new organization. And Pancrase never messed with UWFI a single time.
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Is this for real? I know that the shooting skills of Yoji Anjo were supposed to be held in high esteem, (which was one of the reasons he decided to storm Rickson's Dojo), but I've never heard any flattering descriptions about Takada.
 
This is an awesome thread and it takes me way back.

That said, I'm scratching my head at the some of what I'm seeing suggested here. Takada was not a good fighter, Takada wasn't even an okay fighter. Takada was, like, in the CM Punk range, at best, as an actual martial artist. At no point was he anywhere close to what Saku was. And it isn't like it took Saku years of pro wrestling training to be a good fighter. He was naturally gifted and a university wrestler.
 
Gmork said:
This is an awesome thread and it takes me way back.

That said, I'm scratching my head at the some of what I'm seeing suggested here. Takada was not a good fighter, Takada wasn't even an okay fighter. Takada was, like, in the CM Punk range, at best, as an actual martial artist. At no point was he anywhere close to what Saku was. And it isn't like it took Saku years of pro wrestling training to be a good fighter. He was naturally gifted and a university wrestler.
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"Takada was, like, in the CM Punk range, at best, as an actual martial artist."

Reachin´there...
 
I don't really think that's a reach. He never demonstrated actual fighting ability. He was laughably bad in every legit fight he ever had.
 
Coconutwater said:
Takada has knowledge and can hold his own against normal people. But against actual fighters, he was always spotty. No doubt pro-wrestling wasn't good for his body and yes he was old against Rickson, but still, he is a showman first and foremost. His matches versus Albright were very entertaining.
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Rickson was older, sure a pro wrestling career is more demanding than BJJ and a some vale tudo fights.
 
Gmork said:
I don't really think that's a reach. He never demonstrated actual fighting ability. He was laughably bad in every legit fight he ever had.
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not on that Punk level, realistically.
Takada had decent low kicks, even some high kicks, and some decent submission arsenal (mostly leglocks & armbar). Nothing great, but he could technically do all these shits.
Punk?well...I dont know what he´s got tbh...
 
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