Sanshou/Sanda for MMA?

sonic44

White Belt
@White
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
Ok, so most of us have seen the sanshou highlight videos and can we agree the takedowns look pretty awesome? Since these takedowns are done without a gi, we would think these trips and throws would translate well to MMA.

Question is, how come the sanshou fighters that crossed over into MMA(Cung Le, Pat Barry) barely used their awesome takedowns? If you look at Cung Le's fights, most of the things that worked for him were his spinning kicks and superior kickboxing, I never saw him use one throw.

Is there something about the Sanshou ruleset that makes its throws easy to pull off in a Sanshou match but not practical in MMA?

What do you guys think about this?
 
le abandoned his throwing because he didnt want to risk it leading into grappling on the ground same reason he said he stopped doing scissor takedowns as he didnt wanna get knee barred/heel hooked
 
Last edited:
Ahh that makes sense. So pretty much Le didn't have a ground game so he didn't risk the throws.
 
Considering Sanda doesnt have submissions, a Sanda fighter in an MMA match would usually only want to use their takedowns when facing a superior striker. I cant really think of any of Cung or Pats fights where the other guy was clearly the better striker going into the fight.
 
Ahh that makes sense. So pretty much Le didn't have a ground game so he didn't risk the throws.

Yall internet people should be more generous in how you talk about fighters. Le could probably come to your town and grapple-fuck 99% of the professional fighters you have into abject submission.

I would go to a Le Grappling Seminar right now if there was one in town.
 
Again, this makes a lot sense. I'm actually in an area that offers some solid sanshou training, which is usually rare in the U.S. I'm just deciding if it'll be worth the time and money to supplement my mma game with some Sanshou.
 
Again, this makes a lot sense. I'm actually in an area that offers some solid sanshou training, which is usually rare in the U.S. I'm just deciding if it'll be worth the time and money to supplement my mma game with some Sanshou.

It might be the next best thing to Sambo.
 
Summerstriker, I was not insulting Cung Le. I love Le, in fact if I lived a little closer to the South Bay, I'd go to his school. I was simply trying to objectively rationalize why the awesome throws he showed us in Sanshou matches didn't happen in his mma career. Please try to understand the context of the posts before making your judgements.
 
Actually sambo is an option where I live too. In fact, the other gym I'm deciding between is Combat Sports Academy which teaches Sambo with their mma program.
 
I wish Chung Le would've stayed in San Shou. Much more interesting sport.
 
Part of the reason Cung also didn't use throws much anymore, is that he entered the UFC at a much older age, and his body had a lot of damage; for anyone that saw him fight back in the day in his prime, you could see how fast and fluid he'd be with his combination of Throws and strikes. He didn't have a very technical ground game, but he does have both collegiate wrestling and kungfu wrestling experience, and he could've neutralized the ground scramble after the throw from many fighters.


If he was younger I guarantee you he would have been using his throws with his strikes way more often. I strongly believe he would have been UFC champ in his weight class if he would have entered the sport at a younger age (and not focused on movies). Injuries and father time catch up to everyone though.
 
Part of the reason Cung also didn't use throws much anymore, is that he entered the UFC at a much older age, and his body had a lot of damage; for anyone that saw him fight back in the day in his prime, you could see how fast and fluid he'd be with his combination of Throws and strikes. He didn't have a very technical ground game, but he does have both collegiate wrestling and kungfu wrestling experience, and he could've neutralized the ground scramble after the throw from many fighters.


If he was younger I guarantee you he would have been using his throws with his strikes way more often. I strongly believe he would have been UFC champ in his weight class if he would have entered the sport at a younger age (and not focused on movies). Injuries and father time catch up to everyone though.

i agree, he really was something special if you watched his fights. I mean, well you gotta take into account if Anderson Silva would be competing, but yeah hypothetically speaking yes haha
 
I'm ressurecting this dead thread, because I've wanted to talk about Cung Le for a while.

I think it's quite interesting that we think of Cung Le as a sanshou fighter, when he... wasn't... at least not in the way that say, Muslim Salikhov is. He competed in the Sanshou, sure, but the guy was a taekwondo black belt and college wrestler, who knew he was good enough at wrestling to out wrestle the sanshou guys, and when he transitioned to MMA he used his wrestling to stay standing because he knew his kicks were in another league to his MMA.

Jason Bartholemew talked a little about it:

I fought Cung in the ring five times between 1994 and 1997. To my knowledge I do not know any Sanda fighters in the US that fought more then 2 times. When we fought it was in the beginning of his career and he was mostly just a wrestler. He did not hit me above the waist until our third fight. He was finding himself as a fighter back then and has become much more rounded over the years. What he really brought to the sport was a new level of integrating wrestling into Sanda in the US.

We seem to think of Cung Le as though he was a pure sanshou fighter, when he was more of a guy who competed under the rule set. I just find it interesting that we think of him as a sanshou guy rather than a taekwondo/wrestling fighter, but we don't consider Anthony Pettis a muay thai stylist.
 
I'm ressurecting this dead thread, because I've wanted to talk about Cung Le for a while.

I think it's quite interesting that we think of Cung Le as a sanshou fighter, when he... wasn't... at least not in the way that say, Muslim Salikhov is. He competed in the Sanshou, sure, but the guy was a taekwondo black belt and college wrestler, who knew he was good enough at wrestling to out wrestle the sanshou guys, and when he transitioned to MMA he used his wrestling to stay standing because he knew his kicks were in another league to his MMA.

Jason Bartholemew talked a little about it:



We seem to think of Cung Le as though he was a pure sanshou fighter, when he was more of a guy who competed under the rule set. I just find it interesting that we think of him as a sanshou guy rather than a taekwondo/wrestling fighter, but we don't consider Anthony Pettis a muay thai stylist.

Then make a new one, you necrophiliac......
 
I'd like to see San Shou techniques in Glory Matches.
1.2.9. Prohibited techniques, moves and conduct...

  • Throws, leg sweeps, foot sweeps or pushing of any kind as an effort to off-balance or down an opponent; any attempt to off-balance or down an opponent with anything other than a legal strike may be considered a foul.

If that's what you were talking about.

I wish it was allowed. I think there was a time in China where two Sanshou / Sanda fighters had a exhibition match on Glory, but it was the only time iirc
 
If that's what you were talking about.

I wish it was allowed. I think there was a time in China where two Sanshou / Sanda fighters had a exhibition match on Glory, but it was the only time iirc

I know I saw some sort of exhibition which was Sanda vs Shootboxing, but I can't remember who got the better of it. I believe it was the Sanda fighters.
 
Considering Sanda doesnt have submissions, a Sanda fighter in an MMA match would usually only want to use their takedowns when facing a superior striker. I cant really think of any of Cung or Pats fights where the other guy was clearly the better striker going into the fight.
I know this a old thread , but this is not correct. Sanda does have submissions . They’re mostly used as finishing moves and to be done quickly , so fighter is to return to fighting stance . The sport version removed these moves . Sport comes from military sanda .
 
I still find muay thai much more efficient than SANDA. Primarily in clich techniques
 
Ok, so most of us have seen the sanshou highlight videos and can we agree the takedowns look pretty awesome? Since these takedowns are done without a gi, we would think these trips and throws would translate well to MMA.

Question is, how come the sanshou fighters that crossed over into MMA(Cung Le, Pat Barry) barely used their awesome takedowns? If you look at Cung Le's fights, most of the things that worked for him were his spinning kicks and superior kickboxing, I never saw him use one throw.

Is there something about the Sanshou ruleset that makes its throws easy to pull off in a Sanshou match but not practical in MMA?

What do you guys think about this?

Probably more useful to use their TD defense, and keep fight standing. Saves energy that way. Only necessary against superior strikers, and MMA has crappy striking, but good ground fighters, so why go to mat?

LOLOLLOOLL

Someone necro'd this.
 
Back
Top