Saudi Arabia severs diplomatic ties with Canada

Personally, I'm all for aiming to stop dealing with Saudi Arabia as much as possible, and Canada taking a stand - but that's not what's happening. What has happened was that an empty utterance was put up on the internet, one that Canada could attempt to back up in some way, and what is the result of it at this point? It isn't Canada taking a stand - it's Saudi Arabia taking a stand and Canada displaying, quite clearly, that Saudi Arabia is willing to take a stand and Canada is not.

Think about it. Canada now has the opportunity to take a genuine stand and drop Saudi oil, along with any other Saudi products we buy. It wouldn't have a huge impact on SA, but it could be done and it would show we're not just all talk. Instead, we aren't doing that - we're continuing to buy their oil after our uttered platitude, putting money in Saudi pockets. Saudi Arabia on the other hand? They've ejected our diplomats, are calling back their students, have cut investments, are no longer buying products from us... They've stripped a huge portion of what we get from them away, and we've done virtually nothing to retaliate. It's all good and fine to paint this narrative of us standing up to the bully in some small way where no-one else does, but it's pure fiction. Our empty platitude without anything to back it up, paired with their quite decisive response from SA, enables them as bullies. The writing on the wall is quite clear - Canada talks but doesn't act, and Saudi will smack you around if you step out of line. This does nothing but reveal the emptiness behind Canada's moralizing.

Simply put, if we are going to talk virtuous, we need to be able to back it up in the face of a bully or we simply enable and strengthen that bully. We have done nothing at this point, in this exchange, but show that our morals are all talk, Canada will not respond in any meaningful way, and don't mess with Saudi Arabia. Honestly, it would have been simply better, in virtually every way I can conceive of, if we didn't go making moralizing statements that are ultimately empty. That being said, it will certainly buy votes, and I can't help but think that was the only real goal behind it, since it doesn't seem that there is any intent to actually back up the moralizing. I am more than a bit ashamed over this incident, if there is no decisive response taken in the near future. I'm holding out some hope so, Trudeau, prove me wrong!

Canada could really take a leadership role in this situation and standout in the world as someone who stands up to Saudi Arabia. Lead by example instead of empty platitudes and virtue signalling. Canadians always seem to be clamoring to stand out on the world stage,(please notice me!) well this is our chance. Tell Saudi Arabia to go impregnate themselves, point out loudly all of there disgusting abuses of human rights and walk the fuck away.

Everyone is crying that none of our allies are "standing with us". Well man up and do the right thing, show the world that we don't have to bend the need to that shit hole. Maybe then we inspire others to do the same and spark some real change within that country. There will be some short term losses but we can more than make up for in a short period of time.

We said nothing when they were appointed to the UN human rights council, we said nothing when they were appointed to the women's rights commission. We allowed a multi billion dollar weapons deal to go through even though we knew exactly what those weapons would be used for. I have no love for Trudeau but this is his and his governments opportunity to show they more are than just empty virtue signal vessels.

Or we could do what rational countries do and not make decisions that will have impacts on international relations for years to come in a matter of days. The Saudis reacted emotionally, like a petulant child, in response to us reiterating a call that was first made by the UN. It's better to leave our options open for a while longer than to respond to the insane autocrats in similar fashion as they have done. There are other options for oil (that isn't hard to refine bitumen which is what the oil sands produces and which is part of the reason why we're not energy self sufficient), but another thing that either hasn't been mentioned or extremely downplayed in this thread is how significantly the Saudis support our med school programs in exchange for us training their doctors. It's not a relationship that's as easily severed as some here seem to think, there needs to be a plan in place for all this, and that will take a bit of time.
 
Or we could do what rational countries do and not make decisions that will have impacts on international relations for years to come in a matter of days. The Saudis reacted emotionally, like a petulant child, in response to us reiterating a call that was first made by the UN. It's better to leave our options open for a while longer than to respond to the insane autocrats in similar fashion as they have done. There are other options for oil (that isn't hard to refine bitumen which is what the oil sands produces and which is part of the reason why we're not energy self sufficient), but another thing that either hasn't been mentioned or extremely downplayed in this thread is how significantly the Saudis support our med school programs in exchange for us training their doctors. It's not a relationship that's as easily severed as some here seem to think, there needs to be a plan in place for all this, and that will take a bit of time.

I was certainly speaking somewhat emotionally and agree to the extant that a plan certainly has to be in place. I don't think our current government is up to the task but that is another topic. I belive we bring about 80,000 barrels of Saudi oil a day but we export 3,000,000 to the USA so in the big picture it isn't that much and we could easily handle the drop. They do put a lot of money in to our medical training programs but they do so because they need it. We have some of the best medical training programs in the world. If we make stand against this obvious posturing maybe some of our allies, which would coincidentally would be the Saudis other options tontry and get medical training, would take a stand with us thus maybe making them have to think reform just a little bit harder.
 
I was certainly speaking somewhat emotionally and agree to the extant that a plan certainly has to be in place. I don't think our current government is up to the task but that is another topic. I belive we bring about 80,000 barrels of Saudi oil a day but we export 3,000,000 to the USA so in the big picture it isn't that much and we could easily handle the drop.

As I said, the bitumen that comes out of the oil sands is lower grade than Saudi or US shale oil. You need a very advanced refinery to turn it into fuel, which is why it trades at such a big discount compared to WTI. That's why we can't just fill the supply gap ourselves (this might be a good time to seriously consider how that might be done, which I don't think the current government is currently well equipped for). That said, there are a number of good options to make up the gap in supply by turning away Saudi Oil (e.g. US, Norway). Whatever if we do though, us passing up on Saudi oil is a drop in the bucket for them.

They do put a lot of money in to our medical training programs but they do so because they need it. We have some of the best medical training programs in the world. If we make stand against this obvious posturing maybe some of our allies, which would coincidentally would be the Saudis other options tontry and get medical training, would take a stand with us thus maybe making them have to think reform just a little bit harder.

Germany and the UK have run into similar situations with them, and they've been spoken to I believe I've heard. So far obviously no word from them. I think there's a good chance we're going this one alone.
 
Or we could do what rational countries do and not make decisions that will have impacts on international relations for years to come in a matter of days. The Saudis reacted emotionally, like a petulant child, in response to us reiterating a call that was first made by the UN.

It's easy for them to react that way, cuz Saudi Arabia is basically a family business. Couple that with their notions on honor, you get a shitfest when you infringe on their ruling.
 
Editorial: What Canada’s spat with Saudi Arabia reveals about Trudeau’s scatterbrained foreign policy
J.J. McCullough | August 10

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The worsening spat between the governments of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has been mostly analyzed from the Saudi angle: a case study of the kingdom’s eggshell sensitivities and bossy expectations of deference. Yet the story also reveals much about Trudeau’s own inadequacies as a statesman, and the thoroughly confused nature of his foreign-policy priorities.

Trudeau is often elevated as one of the west’s champions of principled liberal internationalism, a world leader who offers a marked contrast with the populist nationalism of Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, Viktor Orban, et al. Insofar as Trudeau has been an outspoken proponent of immigration, multiculturalism, and Muslim empathy, the contrast is undeniable. At the same time, his commitment to a broader world order seeking to consolidate the gains of liberal reform and resist the pull of authoritarian chauvinism has always been tenuous, in large part because the prime minister appears to have persistent difficulty in distinguishing the two.

While in opposition in 2014, Trudeau led his party in voting to oppose Canada’s participation in airstrikes against ISIS targets in Iraq, and later, Syria, for blandly pacifist reasons. It was a move that isolated him from every progressive leader in western Europe, as well as the one in the White House, who saw the mission as a rational use of force. Upon his election as prime minister two years later, he used his inaugural phone call to President Barack Obama to formally announce that he would be ending the military involvement his predecessor had started. The war on ISIS, accordingly, was won without much help from Canada.

On the campaign trail, Trudeau vowed to restore diplomatic ties with Iran, which Canada had severed in 2012. Following a rash of high-profile human rights outrages, including the detention of an Iranian Canadian widow of a prominent Iranian liberal, he was forced to backpedal. In 2016, Trudeau mourned in flowery terms the passing of Cuba’s Fidel Castro — “a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century” — and was mocked across the globe for his ignorance. In April, Canada made the dramatic decision to recall all diplomatic families from Havana after embassy workers showed symptoms of unexplained brain injuries.

April also saw the prime minister make a high-profile visit to China, a country whose “basic dictatorship” he once praised for its efficiency. He brought visions of free trade, only to have the Chinese flatly refuse Ottawa’s list of “progressive” labor and environmental provisions. The rejection stung, coming just a few weeks after an even more spectacularly unsuccessful trip to India. Rather than herald the beginning of a new partnership with the country’s dynamic new leader, Narendra Modi, a series of severe diplomatic missteps plummeted relations to what an former minister described as “rock bottom.”

And now, a dispute that has seen Saudi Arabia play every possible retaliatory card against Canada, from sending home its ambassador to boycotting Canadian grain. At issue is an uncredited tweet from the Canadian foreign affairs department demanding that Saudi Arabia “immediately” release from detention feminist campaigner Samar Badawi, as well as “all other peaceful #humanrights activists.”

Saudi Arabia has long faced an uphill PR battle in Canada. On the left, it is routinely portrayed as the quintessential example of a repulsive “ally” exposing the moral hypocrisy of the Ottawa elite; a vicious dictatorship given billions in arms to satiate Canada’s addiction to fossil fuels. On the right, the kingdom serves a standard shorthand for Sharia tyranny, whose oil imports are an embarrassing reminder of Canada’s under-utilized natural resources. This confluence of ideological interests has, thus far, helped ensure Trudeau’s Saudi crisis is more politically salvageable than earlier diplomatic snares. As the prime minister doubles down on support of the offending tweet, a broad right-left coalition happily takes Saudi bad faith for granted, as when a Saudi group posted a picture on social media of an Air Canada jet flying over Toronto and ranted about the kingdom “threatening to 9/11 Canada.”

Yet from a higher vantage point, one sees a familiar story: A Canadian prime minister whose ability to identify friends and enemies is out of sync with the moment of history he inhabits. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy whose detention of activists is antithetical to Canadian democracy. But this can just as easily be said of Cuba and China, whose regimes Trudeau has showered with cartoonish affection. The distinction is that, while the ruler of Saudi Arabia is a young reformist exerting targeted effort to scale back some of his government’s hideousness, including Wahhabi fundamentalism, Trudeau happily seeks opportunities in dictatorships far less self-conscious.

It’s entirely possible the crown prince will not be successful in his efforts. However, if Canada’s goal, is a foreign policy oriented to endorse the spread of global liberalism, it is not at all obvious how a prolonged fight with Riyadh is more principled than tighter trade ties to Beijing or an embassy in Tehran.

Analogies to the ISIS war or the Modi summit seem apt. A country like Canada cannot affect much of consequence on the international stage. But if the goal is future relevance, the Trudeau administration should, at least, possess awareness of where its incompetence is best directed.

 
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Editorial: Go, Canada. Saudis, back off.
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When it comes to thin-skinned, autocratic, and self-destructive leaders who overreact to Twitter, who comes to mind? Did you say Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the day-to-day leader of that nation?

Didn’t think so. But you could.

For months, the 32-year-old bin Salman has promoted his campaign to reform the monarchy and make it more progressive. In June the Saudis touted a monumental symbol of that change: For the first time, women were allowed to drive.

But Saudi authorities also have arrested several prominent activists, many of whom campaigned for the right of women to drive.

Several days ago, Canada’s Foreign Ministry called on Riyadh to release those activists, including two who have family in Canada. The blogging brother of one of those activists has been publicly caned for running a liberal website, The New York Times reports.

After Canada tweeted, the Saudis blew a gasket. Big time. The government halted all new trade and investment deals; recalled its ambassador and expelled Canada’s; and stopped direct flights to Canada. The latest attention-grabber: Saudi authorities have yanked some 800 doctors in training in Canada, leaving hospitals a few weeks to scramble to fill the sudden loss. The Saudis are able to recall these students because the government is paying for their educations.

Talk about an Incredible Hulk-like overreaction. This move punishes blameless medical students, who likely will have their educations set back. The Saudis say that those students can study and prepare in other nations. Maybe so, but that takes time. And we wouldn’t be surprised if other countries are leery of accepting students after this episode.

Patients in Canada may suffer too because their care could be disrupted. By the way, some of those patients could be Saudi nationals, because the government often sends its citizens overseas for complicated treatments.

The Saudis demand an apology. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau refuses. “Canadians have always expected our government to speak strongly, firmly, clearly and politely about the need to respect human rights at home and around the world. We will continue to do that.”

We’re with our northern neighbors. We hope their leaders continue to speak their minds, albeit politely.

And America’s response to this dust-up between two allies? Tepid. The U.S. State Department has scrupulously avoided taking sides, urging the two countries to resolve their differences with the usual sternly worded diplomatic statements.

The Saudis have invited the world to do business with them. But beware, executives: The Saudis are highly allergic to even the mildest criticism of their questionable human rights record. Choose your words, and tweets, carefully. If you’re going to ruffle feathers in Saudi Arabia, best to do it in private, where no one else can hear.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...audi-canada-protest-women-20180809-story.html
 
Lol all that beard on the fat face of the fat prince Bin Salsalman and it can't save him!
 
Lol all that beard on the fat face of the fat prince Bin Salsalman and it can't save him!

BTW guys, for those not in the know: salsal is tagalong slang for wank...
 
Everyone should cut ties with that tribal, corrupt, primitive dictatorship.
 
Or we could do what rational countries do and not make decisions that will have impacts on international relations for years to come in a matter of days. The Saudis reacted emotionally, like a petulant child, in response to us reiterating a call that was first made by the UN. It's better to leave our options open for a while longer than to respond to the insane autocrats in similar fashion as they have done. There are other options for oil (that isn't hard to refine bitumen which is what the oil sands produces and which is part of the reason why we're not energy self sufficient), but another thing that either hasn't been mentioned or extremely downplayed in this thread is how significantly the Saudis support our med school programs in exchange for us training their doctors. It's not a relationship that's as easily severed as some here seem to think, there needs to be a plan in place for all this, and that will take a bit of time.

I'm all for never accepting a single Saudi for medical training anymore. It's not as though they are going to stay here to practice anyways.
 
I'm all for never accepting a single Saudi for medical training anymore. It's not as though they are going to stay here to practice anyways.

I saw a video of the punishment for theft in Saudi Arabia, or what was purported to be such, and instantly regretted it. What has been seen cannot be unseen. However, there were two doctors on hand waiting to attend to the wound. I couldn't help but wonder if Canada had trained these doctors. Apparently we have 800 Saudi medical residents. Presumably all of these residents must return to Saudi Arabia after we're done training them. Meanwhile Canada has doctor shortages in every major city while we train stump stitchers for an irrelevant trade partner.
 
I saw a video of the punishment for theft in Saudi Arabia, or what was purported to be such, and instantly regretted it. What has been seen cannot be unseen. However, there were two doctors on hand waiting to attend to the wound. I couldn't help but wonder if Canada had trained these doctors. Apparently we have 800 Saudi medical residents. Presumably all of these residents must return to Saudi Arabia after we're done training them. Meanwhile Canada has doctor shortages in every major city while we train stump stitchers for an irrelevant trade partner.

QFT

My take is, if they're too backwater and barbaric to put together any functional institution and infrastructure with any competency other than oil drilling and refining, then they can all suck a giant dick and all developed countries should just say "enough, we've given you enough tools for you guys to do this yourself. Stop simply throwing money at us thinking it fixes everything"

Of course USA, England, France and the rest of the developed world lacks the spine and integrity to do this which weakens the Canadian stance.

They've had the funds long enough to put together their own medical training programs. Time to get them off the tit.
 
Where was this guy when he was needed?



Holly shit!

Ah at least Saudi only Severed Canadian relations usually the Saudis severs something more important than relations!
 
https://www.narcity.com/news/a-former-canadian-politician-went-on-saudi-tv-to-attack-justin-trudeau

LMAO. #TrudeauDerangementSyndrome



''Trudeau should fly to Saudi Arabia to apologize''

Lol, what a goddamn cuck.

Except, when he was foreign minister:


It's so funny to me that Harper had so many of these scumbags in his government, that he's given interviews taking the side of the US over Canada, that he refused to engage with provincial premiers on any level, and lead the country into economic decline, but in the WR, Trudeau is apparently the worst EVER. OMG he's so fucking progressive it's sickening, apparently.

But what about his actual policies? How's the country doing under his leadership? I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here it's booming.

I'm not saying I think he's perfect, either. Sure, there's plenty to criticize, the government being composed of humans, after all, but I don't see a better alternative in federal politics at the moment. But I digress.

It's crazy to back down in this situation. End of story.

As I said, the bitumen that comes out of the oil sands is lower grade than Saudi or US shale oil. You need a very advanced refinery to turn it into fuel, which is why it trades at such a big discount compared to WTI. That's why we can't just fill the supply gap ourselves (this might be a good time to seriously consider how that might be done, which I don't think the current government is currently well equipped for). That said, there are a number of good options to make up the gap in supply by turning away Saudi Oil (e.g. US, Norway). Whatever if we do though, us passing up on Saudi oil is a drop in the bucket for them.

Germany and the UK have run into similar situations with them, and they've been spoken to I believe I've heard. So far obviously no word from them. I think there's a good chance we're going this one alone.

This just illustrates the need to go as green as possible as quickly as political reality will allow. But that's beside the point of my reply. Given your last paragraph, this may interest you,

No, Canada is not alone in facing Saudi Arabia
Michael Stephens is the research fellow for Middle East Studies at Royal United Services Institute RUSI, and formerly served in the U.K. Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

"Following a dramatic breakdown in relations between Canada and Saudi Arabia over a tweet, Canadians could be forgiven for feeling both perplexed and frustrated.

The prevailing belief is that Canada has been left to face the wrath of the Saudis alone. The United States says the two sides should “solve it together”; meanwhile Britain could only “urge restraint on both sides.”

Pro-Saudi media outlets in the Arab world have been keen to pick on this trend, claiming that Canada is “alone without friends," the implication being that this isolation means Saudi Arabia must be in the right.

While this might be good propaganda for the Saudis, the truth is a little different, and the facts seem to have slipped between the cracks. So let me state it clearly: Canada is not alone, and it will not be left to face this crisis alone. The notion that Canada would be left to fend for itself is unthinkable...."

I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but you get the idea.

Anyway, it concludes,

"Mr. Trump may or may not value this relationship, but we in Britain certainly do. Should the crisis escalate, Riyadh knows full well that we would not take their side, and this is why the dispute should go no further. Indeed, behind London’s call for restraint is a firm message to Riyadh not to push the issue, thereby forcing Britain to pick a side.

It is regrettable that our closest friends feel alone at this time, but it is important to state again that Britain will continue to try its hardest to prevent the crisis from expanding. Canada can rest assured that its friends are working to support it, albeit quietly."
 
I'm all for never accepting a single Saudi for medical training anymore. It's not as though they are going to stay here to practice anyways.

I would support that as a position right now. Removing their residents in a few weeks will most certainly have impacts on our already stretched healthcare system. The Canadian government's response should be that if the Saudis go ahead with this removal, there will be no more admissions in the future. One might argue that the Saudis can always take their cash elsewhere, but currently they certainly don't look like a reliable partner in such a partnership, so it's doubtful that there are many willing takers among nations that have comparable med school programs.
 
just crickets from our resident trump thumpers. Blah blah blah globalist hilary this, muslim that. Then Canada's cuck swj prime minister takes a stand and its silence.
 
just crickets from our resident trump thumpers. Blah blah blah globalist hilary this, muslim that. Then Canada's cuck swj prime minister takes a stand and its silence.

Trudeau is a cuck yet who actually bowed like a courtier to the Saudis?

<Moves>
 
Everyone should cut ties with that tribal, corrupt, primitive dictatorship.

Then who'll get us oil? You wanna live in the fucking desert or something? US tolerates and supports the Sauds for convenience. You cut that off and in a few decades it'll be Gundam 00 all over.
 
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