School shooter stopped by good guy with a gun, Dixon IL

[MadSquabbles500]

Hooray that is plus 1 up for armed security guards.

 

[Krallang]

I think its perfectly acceptable for a percentage of teachers to be trained on firearm safety and critical thinking to determine when is the right time to pull a firearm.

It doesn't even have to be all teachers, just mandate that 1 out of 10 or 1 out of 15 or base it per student. Give them a little extra pay for pulling double duty and were all set.

I can recall two teachers from my old highschool that would have probably been perfect fits for a program like this. One was the business/civics teacher, wrestling coach, and former Navy Seal. The other was a history teacher who was a former Marine Drill Instructor. There were probably other qualified candidates but the two with prior military experience just stand out after 15 years. I'm sure my anecdotal evidence for "qualified" candidates isn't that extreme. That was a highschool in baltimore MD so full democrat btw.

 

[irish_thug]

Are there people that are against School Resource Officers?

Toronto recently voted to get rid of the program. Certain students felt threatened. Makes me glad I no longer live there.

 

[ShadowRun]

Damn NRA

 

[spamking]

What's wrong with a registry, or requiring a license for firearm use? Such measures are put in place for cars, how is a gun registry any different? What is the actual problem if you're going to use it for legal purposes?

Right vs privilege . . . you or the government have no business knowing what I own . . . I'm not a fan of a registry of how many firearms I own being available to anyone.

 

[spamking]

There is no difference.

Dude . . . come on.

 

[irish_thug]

Registries have a very, very long history of abuse and the eventual outcome is usually confiscation.

Source?

HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

Even if there isn't abuse, they get mired in bureaucracy and cost a bloody fortune. Source: Canada.

 

[irish_thug]

If I am ever in Dixon,IL, Mr Dallas drinks for free.
Good job

That is pretty much my reaction whenever I read something like this.

 

[irish_thug]

What does it take to trust a teacher with a firearm?

Similar firearms training to a LEO? That would not be very hard to attain.

A lot of posters seem to think that guns are some sort of incredibly complicated and unstable device, and that most citizens carrying a gun are going to shoot themselves in the foot at the first sign of trouble.

Not only is that an odd media perception/joke, but, the "professional" training of Law Enforcement or most Military is firing a handful of live rounds and a simple class or two and firing a few shoots at the range. Would most of the "I don't trust teachers" crowd be satisfied if the teachers went over the very low hurtle that most LEO's and or Marines go over?

I've said it before, and I am sure I will say it again. The overwhelming majority of recreational shooters have far more range time than most police officers. I have shared a range with coppers who can barely pass qualification, and regular joes who could shoot competitively.

 

[irish_thug]

There is a county here in Florida one of the poorer counties which can’t afford to have a police officer in every school. They are hiring ex military and retired cops to fill the role.

I support that %100. With proper psych eval that is.

 

[nostradumbass]

Are there people that are against School Resource Officers?

They aren't going to admit it in this thread.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

How about we meet in the middle and don't ban guns or arm teachers?

I am fine with this.

I find it bizarre how poorly people react to arming teachers who want to carry, but sometimes compromise is necessary.

 

[InternetHero]

I've said it before, and I am sure I will say it again. The overwhelming majority of recreational shooters have far more range time than most police officers. I have shared a range with coppers who can barely pass qualification, and regular joes who could shoot competitively.

Yeah "expert training" is often a crafty Red Herring and formative fiction.

That tends to go double in the gun debate.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Registries have a very, very long history of abuse and the eventual outcome is usually confiscation.

Source?

HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

I think it's unlikely to happen in the USA. You need a registry in Switzerland and they have wide access to guns. Although you're right that it makes for easier confiscation I don't think it leads to one.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I've said it before, and I am sure I will say it again. The overwhelming majority of recreational shooters have far more range time than most police officers. I have shared a range with coppers who can barely pass qualification, and regular joes who could shoot competitively.

I agree 100% with that. Back in the good old days when I was in the brazilian army we had some cross training with the polícia militar/military police(not the same as the MP in the US, they're cops that have military ranks, like a gendarmerie). These guys get into firefights all the time but they can't shoot, they have no idea of safety, they can't hold a gun properly. Although they make up for it with balls and high casualties.
Luckily criminals are usually even worse at shooting.

Bonus image:

 

[irish_thug]

Yeah "expert training" is often a crafty Red Herring and formative fiction.

That tends to go double in the gun debate.

Expert training tends to be reserved for specialized units. Basic for everyone else.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

If it "does not have to be live fire," and can be "paintball for all you care" then I feel you don't have a lot of firearms experience or training

I believe that exercises which emphasize the right skills can be executed with paintball instead of live fire practice (as live-fire practice is probably too costly and risky to conduct regularly). If it's feasible and more helpful to get only live-fire training, then that would be prefferred, correct?

then I feel you don't have a lot of firearms experience or training. Do you feel that degrades or perhaps adds to the emotional involvement you may have in the issue?

Obviously you like your firearms, so of course that adds an emotional investment in the issue for you. Well, the truth of the matter is, just because you have experience firing a gun doesn't make you an expert in legal deterrents or prevention policy, especially when numerous studies on the subject are disregarded out of hand because they don't point to the conclusion you would like. You wouldn't go down to a car show and ask the enthusiast there to craft our automobile laws, and likewise, it doesn't make sense to go find someone who spends the most time at the range and ask them to craft our gun policy. They have the chance to contribute to the discussion same as anyone else, but trying to play this gun trivia gate keeping bullshit is ridiculous.

As well, "regular training" is not part of licensing or the protocol to most LEO departments either.

Again, I know that and I agree with you, but that just means that those departments should have better training protocols. I've said in three posts in here, and I'll say it again, Teachers firing their gun at students (even in a school shooter situation) will 'legally' be held to a higher degree than a cop. Cops firing their guns are an expected part of their job, teachers, not so much. If the teachers make a mistake, the school district is on the hook for the bill, and enough of our school districts in this country are already money strapped, all it would take is one mishap and those districts would get even worse.

However, what amounts to safe storage? Concealed in an under the waistband holster, or in a safe where it takes minutes to access the gun and is not on-person? The latter might lead to 15 dead kids in the 3 minutes it takes to open said safe under pressure.

I'm imagining a gun safe attached to the wall of the classroom or somewhere that its easy to get to, and opened either by bio-metric fingerprint or an electronic number code, neither of which would take anywhere close to three minutes to open (in reality less than ten seconds). Keeping it on a holster just seems like it's begging for something to go wrong

Come on man. I can build, own, and operate any vehicle I want, in whatever inebriated state I want, on private property. I'm fine with the same rules for arms. Deal?

If you build your own gun and wanna shoot it off while you're drunk on your own property, no one's gonna stop you, but if you hit someone or something with a stray bullet you're going to be held accountable. I don't really follow how that has anything to do with armed teachers.

It should also be noted that motor vehicle laws aren't in the Bill of Rights. If you just wanna brush aside the same thing that protects your free speech then consider me fundamentally opposed.

We already limit the right to bear arms for those who committed a felony, same with the right to vote, which is a more central aspect of our democracy than bearing arms. Laws exist and they restrict our rights on any number of subjects which you would hold no opposition to, so you can't just pick the 2nd amendment and arbitrarily declare

Right vs privilege . . . you or the government have no business knowing what I own . . . I'm not a fan of a registry of how many firearms I own being available to anyone.

Any purchase you make with a credit or debit card is tracked. Anytime you use the internet, your data is tracked. I'm pretty confident you're not a fan of taxes or people telling you what to do, but you suffer through that because you don't really have a choice, right? Realistically, what is so bad about your guns being registered and tracked? It would make them easier to recover if they were stolen.

I've said it before, and I am sure I will say it again. The overwhelming majority of recreational shooters have far more range time than most police officers. I have shared a range with coppers who can barely pass qualification, and regular joes who could shoot competitively.

Because range accuracy is the perfect predictor of who would operate successfully in a school shooter situation right?

 

[Drenalin]

Unfortunately, you're likely to find a few people that are opposed the idea of armed resource officers on this very forum.

People that stupid shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce.

 

[irish_thug]

I believe that exercises which emphasize the right skills can be executed with paintball instead of live fire practice (as live-fire practice is probably too costly and risky to conduct regularly). If it's feasible and more helpful to get only live-fire training, then that would be prefferred, correct?



Obviously you like your firearms, so of course that adds an emotional investment in the issue for you. Well, the truth of the matter is, just because you have experience firing a gun doesn't make you an expert in legal deterrents or prevention policy, especially when numerous studies on the subject are disregarded out of hand because they don't point to the conclusion you would like. You wouldn't go down to a car show and ask the enthusiast there to craft our automobile laws, and likewise, it doesn't make sense to go find someone who spends the most time at the range and ask them to craft our gun policy. They have the chance to contribute to the discussion same as anyone else, but trying to play this gun trivia gate keeping bullshit is ridiculous.



Again, I know that and I agree with you, but that just means that those departments should have better training protocols. I've said in three posts in here, and I'll say it again, Teachers firing their gun at students (even in a school shooter situation) will 'legally' be held to a higher degree than a cop. Cops firing their guns are an expected part of their job, teachers, not so much. If the teachers make a mistake, the school district is on the hook for the bill, and enough of our school districts in this country are already money strapped, all it would take is one mishap and those districts would get even worse.



I'm imagining a gun safe attached to the wall of the classroom or somewhere that its easy to get to, and opened either by bio-metric fingerprint or an electronic number code, neither of which would take anywhere close to three minutes to open (in reality less than ten seconds). Keeping it on a holster just seems like it's begging for something to go wrong



If you build your own gun and wanna shoot it off while you're drunk on your own property, no one's gonna stop you, but if you hit someone or something with a stray bullet you're going to be held accountable. I don't really follow how that has anything to do with armed teachers.




We already limit the right to bear arms for those who committed a felony, same with the right to vote, which is a more central aspect of our democracy than bearing arms. Laws exist and they restrict our rights on any number of subjects which you would hold no opposition to, so you can't just pick the 2nd amendment and arbitrarily declare



Any purchase you make with a credit or debit card is tracked. Anytime you use the internet, your data is tracked. I'm pretty confident you're not a fan of taxes or people telling you what to do, but you suffer through that because you don't really have a choice, right? Realistically, what is so bad about your guns being registered and tracked? It would make them easier to recover if they were stolen.



Because range accuracy is the perfect predictor of who would operate successfully in a school shooter situation right?

No. But practice certainly helps. Most police forces only require officers to qualify with their sidearm annually. Compare that with a hobby shooter who will go to a range weekly or bi-weekly.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

No. But practice certainly helps. Most police forces only require officers to qualify with their sidearm annually. Compare that with a hobby shooter who will go to a range weekly or bi-weekly.

I mean, yeah, there's no doubt in my mind a lot of law enforcement departments need to mandate more firearm training. When I was in middle school a resource officer in our school district blew his toe off while he was cleaning his pistol. That probably counted as a line-of-duty injury and he retired with a medical pension