School shootings

[TSO]

Leagon strikes me as someone who has never had a real job, or traveled.

America is awesome. Most of the world is shit. You have no fucking idea.

Every time I'm outside the U.S. I'm reminded how good we have it. Most of the rest of the world is total shit and they boast how they don't have gun crime? They just don't record it.

 

[Roaming East]

can ban guns? ban the other thing that leads to school shootings: Virginal, angry white teenage boys.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

can ban guns? ban the other thing that leads to school shootings: Virginal, angry white teenage boys.

As a right of passage us boys should all get a prostitute when we turn 13.

 

[Byron Carter]

can ban guns? ban the other thing that leads to school shootings: Virginal, angry white teenage boys.

Most school shootings in the U.S. are perpetrated by black males.

Unless you redefine "mass shooting" and "school shooting", and assign it some arbitrary number, such as "more than 5 people shot", or "using a weapon other than a handgun", it's disproportionately a black problem.

 

[Leagon]

I'm probably just a cynic but I don't think you will ever get away from having violent people. There are always going to be those people out there that just don't care and are going to harm people.

The biggest thing with school shootings though? Fucking go after bullies properly. Love to see how many of these kids that brought a gun to school were bullied.

Dude, I'm a cynic too. I get where you're coming from and I'm not gonna pretend I have the answers.

My position is that I don't have to have the answers because other places already have. Sooo many places have done a great job in reigning in mass violence. It's like if some hunter-gatherer in the Amazon was trying to think up a machine that let people fly. There is one. It's called a plane and everyone who isn't an Amazonian caveman already uses it.

Obviously we can't just steal another country's system and expect it to work, but there's no reason to act like the only testable hypothesis is more guns.

 

[Roaming East]

Most school shootings in the U.S. are perpetrated by black males.

Unless you redefine "mass shooting" and "school shooting", and assign it some arbitrary number, such as "more than 5 people shot", or "using a weapon other than a handgun", it's disproportionately a black problem.

gonna have to show me your evidence on that. spent almost 20 minutes going through the school shootings listed here
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
and im not seeing a prevailing trend towards non-whites being the primary aggressors. I believe the criteria as 'mass shooting' is the current 'at least three' ratio.

 

[Leagon]

We really have no way of knowing how prevalent mass attacks on the public have been throughout history. Since violent crime rates are historically low overall why be myopic about one form of it?

As for creative problem solving, there's nothing terribly creative about banning weapons and that's what we get from the left. What else has come from that side of the aisle with any vigor?

Infant mortality in the US is 6.5 per 1,000 live births. Firearms homicide rate is 3.6 per 100,000 people. Dividing the first number by the second number respectively, we get percentages of .0065 for the births and .000036 for the gun murders. Let's say there's 4 million babies born each year. 4 million multiplied by our percentage is 26,000 dead infants. Using a population of 350 million and multiplying it by our percentage we get 12,600 gun murders. We know that less than 1% of gun homicides are mass shootings. That gives us like 100 mass shooting deaths per year. Interesting how minuscule number is some huge epidemic and the far greater one is a problem that's been "conquered".

1. I think the left is retarded on this issue too.

2. Numbers are relative. 100 mass shootings a year doesn't seem like a lot until you realize it's the highest in the human history by far. There are an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the US. If 12,000 of them committed murder this year, would you say we don't have a problem since it's such a small percentage? I mean, of course there are people who want to harm others. Of course some of those people can sneak into our country. What can be done?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

1. I think the left is retarded on this issue too.

2. Numbers are relative. 100 mass shootings a year doesn't seem like a lot until you realize it's the highest in the human history by far. There are an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the US. If 12,000 of them committed murder this year, would you say we don't have a problem since it's such a small percentage? I mean, of course there are people who want to harm others. Of course some of those people can sneak into our country. What can be done?

Can you bullet-point your plan of attack?

You said infant mortality was a thing of the past and I showed it was far more common that dying in a mass shooting. 260 to 1 in fact. Neither infant mortality nor violent crime are stamped out anywhere that I can tell.

 

[Leagon]

Leagon strikes me as someone who has never had a real job, or traveled.

America is awesome. Most of the world is shit. You have no fucking idea.

Lol. I've spent the last five years even split between the US and abroad and my family is from one of Donald's shitholes.

You strike me as the sort of dude that beats his wife and cries afterward.

Edit: I'm just talkin shit, I'm sure you're a decent dude. But I do have some travel experience and I've worked my way from crime ridden public schools to a much better life. It's insulting to imply that I don't know what work is. In fact, the reason I have my stance on this is because I know what hard work can do.

 

[Leagon]

Can you bullet-point your plan of attack?

You said infant mortality was a thing of the past and I showed it was far more common that dying in a mass shooting. 260 to 1 in fact. Neither infant mortality nor violent crime are stamped out anywhere that I can tell.

Infant mortality is far higher in other countries and in America's own history. It is decreasing. We are one of the best in the world at keeping infants alive.

Mass shootings are far lower in other countries and in America's own history. They are increasing. We are one of the worst in the world at preventing mass shootings.

This is what I meant when I said "numbers are relative."

I'll sponsor almost any plan of attack that can reasonably curb the violence, but my personal belief is that this responsibility lands on individual families and that the US doesn't do anything to promote stable, healthy families. It would require substantial system overhaul. Less medicating and overdiagnoses of conditions rewuiring medication. More alcohol abuse education and prevention. Decriminalization of petty drugs distribution (and marijuana). Increased maternity and paternity leave. New national holidays for parents and children. More alternative education options for students who don't enjoy school. Etc.

 

[Gregolian]

gonna have to show me your evidence on that. spent almost 20 minutes going through the school shootings listed here
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
and im not seeing a prevailing trend towards non-whites being the primary aggressors. I believe the criteria as 'mass shooting' is the current 'at least three' ratio.

I would imagine school shootings are hard to track cause I wonder how many American History X type shit happens at inner city schools between gangs that doesn't get chalked up as a "school shooting" and instead as a "gang crime" and skews stats.

Dude, I'm a cynic too. I get where you're coming from and I'm not gonna pretend I have the answers.

My position is that I don't have to have the answers because other places already have. Sooo many places have done a great job in reigning in mass violence. It's like if some hunter-gatherer in the Amazon was trying to think up a machine that let people fly. There is one. It's called a plane and everyone who isn't an Amazonian caveman already uses it.

Obviously we can't just steal another country's system and expect it to work, but there's no reason to act like the only testable hypothesis is more guns.

I'd argue more security at schools in the form of police or something but I already kinda showed how that doesn't work.

Like, i think Baltimore lets all the kids in and then basically locks the doors to enter the school until the end of the day so kids just drop the knives outside and stab each other off school grounds and shit.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Infant mortality is far higher in other countries and in America's own history. It is decreasing. We are one of the best in the world at keeping infants alive.

Mass shootings are far lower in other countries and in America's own history. They are increasing. We are one of the worst in the world at preventing mass shootings.

This is what I meant when I said "numbers are relative."

I'll sponsor almost any plan of attack that can reasonably curb the violence, but my personal belief is that this responsibility lands on individual families and that the US doesn't do anything to promote stable, healthy families. It would require substantial system overhaul. Less medicating and overdiagnoses of conditions rewuiring medication. More alcohol abuse education and prevention. Decriminalization of petty drugs distribution (and marijuana). Increased maternity and paternity leave. New national holidays for parents and children. More alternative education options for students who don't enjoy school. Etc.

As I pointed out, violent crime is on the overall decline. So if that's satisfactory for dead babies then it should be for dead adults as well. With that said, if there's specific measures we can take that don't strip civil liberties for us all in order to prevent statistically zero deaths then we should look at them.

I like all of your ideas. Most importantly I'd like to see kids spend more time with their parents and less time surrounded primarily by other kids.

 

[Kanuck99]

Replace guns with baseball bats. Problem solved.

 

[Leagon]

As I pointed out, violent crime is on the overall decline. So if that's satisfactory for dead babies then it should be for dead adults as well. With that said, if there's specific measures we can take that don't strip civil liberties for us all in order to prevent statistically zero deaths then we should look at them.

I like all of your ideas. Most importantly I'd like to see kids spend more time with their parents and less time surrounded primarily by other kids.

But we gotta have standards, man. Some things are just not acceptable. If your house collapsed on a windy day, you wouldn't just say, "well, this problem is almost at zero." You'd say what the fuck, it's 2018, this shit can't happen. It's not setting the bar too high to say that we shouldn't have kids murdering their classmates en masse. That shit shouldn't happen once.

Your point about kids spending more time with parents is really important. It's a good plan. And that's really all I've ever wante from the right and the left. I'm not a politician. I don't get paid to solve these problems, and I don't want to underestimate how complicated they are, but I really don't appreciate bullshit, obviously pandering solutions when people's lives are at stake. This is not an issue to pander on. And I don't buy that all our Ivy league educated senators can't think up a better solution than "more guns."

 

[Leagon]

I'd argue more security at schools in the form of police or something but I already kinda showed how that doesn't work.

Like, i think Baltimore lets all the kids in and then basically locks the doors to enter the school until the end of the day so kids just drop the knives outside and stab each other off school grounds and shit.

Sometimes we have to go deeper than the easy answers.

Why do we need more security at schools? Because some kids are psycho. Is that true? Yes.

Why are some kids psycho? They just are. Is that true?

Not necessarily. There are schools all over the planet that don't have security or metal detectors or shool shootings. Why? Because they don't have psycho kids?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

But we gotta have standards, man. Some things are just not acceptable. If your house collapsed on a windy day, you wouldn't just say, "well, this problem is almost at zero." You'd say what the fuck, it's 2018, this shit can't happen. It's not setting the bar too high to say that we shouldn't have kids murdering their classmates en masse. That shit shouldn't happen once.

Your point about kids spending more time with parents is really important. It's a good plan. And that's really all I've ever wante from the right and the left. I'm not a politician. I don't get paid to solve these problems, and I don't want to underestimate how complicated they are, but I really don't appreciate bullshit, obviously pandering solutions when people's lives are at stake. This is not an issue to pander on. And I don't buy that all our Ivy league educated senators can't think up a better solution than "more guns."

I guess we could argue about what's realistic. We shouldn't need cops should we? You wanna get rid of 'em tomorrow? Probably not even though we just had a thread about multiple officers in Baltimore operating like something out of The Shield. Sometimes you take the bad with the good. When neither the ultimate source of the problem nor the correct course of action are clear then what? How about we focus on stamping out mental illness? What do those steps look like?

 

[Gregolian]

Sometimes we have to go deeper than the easy answers.

Why do we need more security at schools? Because some kids are psycho. Is that true? Yes.

Why are some kids psycho? They just are. Is that true?

Not necessarily. There are schools all over the planet that don't have security or metal detectors or shool shootings. Why? Because they don't have psycho kids?

I still stand by what I said earlier that schools need to crack down on bullies more.

You look at MOST of these kids that take a gun to school or shoot up a school and they're usually victims of something. I know I was in school and I cracked but when I cracked I proceeded to throw punches and try to get back at my bully that way. I was lucky though, I was over 6 feet and 250 already even as a freshman so that's not an option for everyone.

 

[Leagon]

I guess we could argue about what's realistic. We shouldn't need cops should we? You wanna get rid of 'em tomorrow? Probably not even though we just had a thread about multiple officers in Baltimore operating like something out of The Shield. Sometimes you take the bad with the good. When neither the ultimate source of the problem nor the correct course of action are clear then what? How about we focus on stamping out mental illness? What do those steps look like?

Of course we need cops. Every society of significant size needs third party law enforcement. Unless you know of an exception?

Why would we stamp out mental illness? Every country has mental illness. America has always had mental illness.

Question: How do you feel about acid attacks? Are they just a part of human nature? Do you never wonder why some cultures have acid attacks and others don't? Should those cultures ban acid? Or address mental illness?

 

[Leagon]

I still stand by what I said earlier that schools need to crack down on bullies more.

You look at MOST of these kids that take a gun to school or shoot up a school and they're usually victims of something. I know I was in school and I cracked but when I cracked I proceeded to throw punches and try to get back at my bully that way. I was lucky though, I was over 6 feet and 250 already even as a freshman so that's not an option for everyone.

I was 4' 8" and 88lbs as a freshman. I didn't get bullied once in high school.

Here's a better question: If you got bullied, why didn't you shoot up your school? Because you were big? So all smaller kids shoot up their school? If not, why?

 

[Gregolian]

I was 4' 8" and 88lbs as a freshman. I didn't get bullied once in high school.

Here's a better question: If you got bullied, why didn't you shoot up your school?

Cause that's a ridiculous place to go... Frankly the concept of shooting up the school never even entered my mind.

It was more me coming home with a bloody nose bitching to my dad about it, my born in 1938 one tour of Vietnam with Marine Raiders and the Frogmen dad that was like "you come home like that again I'll give you a REAL bloody nose and a reason to bitch".

There's a pretty big problem in schools in general of administrations not believing victims of bullying.