Scissor takedowns - frowned upon in you BJJ school?

[EatMyShorts]

I've started doing these recently - and in certain situations, they seem ridiculously effective.

By example - if a dude goes for a hip toss, as a counter, or counter to a single leg etc.

And also - jumping on a leg with a scissor to go straight into 50/50 etc.

BUT - I was hesitant to ask, "are these allowed?" - mainly cause I don't want to hear, "no" - and thus, be deprived of the opportunity to practice them.

I understand they can be kind of dangerous.

Are these generally allowed or no?

 

[efficientjudo]

They are banned under most competitive rules sets including IBJJF - so I wouldn't be expecting my training partners in BJJ or Judo to be attempting them on me in a sparring situation unless it had been made clear they are allowed. Most gyms will usually roll to the rules they compete at.

Are they generally allowed - no.

 

[RJ Green]

if :

- you're dropping straight down
- you're not jumping into them/their knee
- you're not hanging on them (more than needed)
- you know when their foot is caught and know when to bail/kick out their foot for them

...then maybe? it's one thing to practice fuckin around with your friends, but it's suuuuuuper dicey as a live takedown.

 

[Badger67]

They arent even allowed in judo where they allow you to slam someone and break their ribs in competition. Id say dont do it, and i am a guy who likes heel hooks and twisting kneebahs.

 

[RemyR]

My gym is pretty lenient and those are still frowned upon

 

[ArtemV]

Nope. But we haven't really ever tried to use these in sparring. We have drilled them, but it was a few years ago. Just learn wrestling, bro. Or judo too, for gi.

 

[EatMyShorts]

I was looking at them also from the point of view of, entries into leg submissions.

I know there's others but - like I mentioned - from certain positions, these are so effective.

So - what's the worst that can happen?

 

[ChainFlow]

My gym allows them but only for our no-gi competitors during the advanced class. I love the scissors and use it all the time. Never hurt anyone at all. One of the junior members of the competition team did hurt another member recently though, our first injury from it in six years of doing them. Wasn’t a bad injury at least.

 

[yetanother]

So - what's the worst that can happen?

Horrible knee injury from doing it wrong and jumping into the knee?

 

[lechien]

I was looking at them also from the point of view of, entries into leg submissions.

I know there's others but - like I mentioned - from certain positions, these are so effective.

So - what's the worst that can happen?

Injuries on knee or ankles.

The fact that you don't want to ask if you are allowed to use them in sparring against team mate because you are worried that they will say no is a WEIRD.

The fact that you do not even know the possible result of a technique that "could" be banned in your gym but you never asked because you did not want to hear a negative reply is even WORST.

What next?

 

[EatMyShorts]

Injuries on knee or ankles.

The fact that you don't want to ask if you are allowed to use them in sparring against team mate because you are worried that they will say no is a WEIRD.

The fact that you do not even know the possible result of a technique that "could" be banned in your gym but you never asked because you did not want to hear a negative reply is even WORST.

What next?

I didn't ask cause, like heel hooks, I know I can perform them competently without injuring anyone.
Though I understand why they don't let rookies just rip that shit, of course, I feel that doesn't apply to me cause, I know I have that personal level of control and refinement in technique application.

And my school owners are SUPER uptight about techniques outside of IBJJF rules - potentially depriving me of practice opportunities.

So I can practice away under the guise of being "unaware" they're illegal, until I get called on it.

Then, I'll probably have to cut that shit out.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It’s quite effective is you can get on range, it’s caught lots of popularity lately yiyo I think since it leads sadle...

 

[TheFakeMacoy]

So - what's the worst that can happen?

This is why the IJF banned them.

 

[lts5025]

Injuries on knee or ankles.

The fact that you don't want to ask if you are allowed to use them in sparring against team mate because you are worried that they will say no is a WEIRD.

The fact that you do not even know the possible result of a technique that "could" be banned in your gym but you never asked because you did not want to hear a negative reply is even WORST.

What next?

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[selfcritical]

I didn't ask cause, like heel hooks, I know I can perform them competently without injuring anyone.
Though I understand why they don't let rookies just rip that shit, of course, I feel that doesn't apply to me cause, I know I have that personal level of control and refinement in technique application.

And my school owners are SUPER uptight about techniques outside of IBJJF rules - potentially depriving me of practice opportunities.

So I can practice away under the guise of being "unaware" they're illegal, until I get called on it.

Then, I'll probably have to cut that shit out.

You just started doing them recently, hadn't done them before in sparring, and you're confident in your ability because of.....what then?

Because it doesn't sound particularly like you did the relevant stuff to figure out if you're actually good at them or not. You could just let people know you're trying to practice them and let them make their own decision about their own safety.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Damn. You sound like a bad training partner forreal

 

[mattemate]

Back in the day Japan's best hw judoka had his leg broke by it. It was banned at that point.

 

[Chandler sama]

Its illegal in everything except no-gi I think. It might be legal in sambo, but I'm not sure. The reason it is banned is because it requires both people to do things correctly. If you don't know how to do it perfectly you'll wreck someone's leg. If the defender's leg isn't in the correct position it will wreck his leg. On top of that it happens so fast there is no way to tap to it. IMO its much more dangerous than a heelhook.

 

[EatMyShorts]

Garry Tonon was scissoring like nobody's business at polaris - so I assume it's still legal in certain competitions.

But - I have better insight into the dangers now.

 

[yetanother]

So I can practice away under the guise of being "unaware" they're illegal, until I get called on it.

Don't do dangerous stuff on people who thing they are illegal.